3vze no start!?
 

I have a 1993 Toyota P/U with the 3.0 v6 that I got from my brother. It has 189k on the truck but my bro had a rebuilt engine put in about 30k miles ago. When I got the truck it idled rough and I could smell raw fuel and see it dripping on the ground. To make a really long story short I replaced and fixed a ton of stuff. I upgraded the alternator to a 120a unit, Installed flamethrower injectors, new fuel pressure damper and fuel press regulator, new injector seals, fuel filter, hot tanked the intake plenum and manifold, cleaned the throttle body and MAF, cheap cold air intake, new plugs, wires, cap/rotor, all new silicone hoses, new battery, new timing belt and tensioner, water pump, fan bracket, belts, etc..

I got everything back together tonight and I went to start the truck... nothing. When I turn the ignition I get the FAINTEST click from the starter relay. I switched it out with another one and same thing... very faint click. I checked my battery voltage: Static- 12.2v Load- 11v. I guess its a little low but I dont even hear the fuel pump priming when I turn the key to position before cranking. I checked that all electrical connectors are secure. I checked that the small wire is secure on the bottom of the starter. I added an additional ground from the negative battery terminal to the body. I also have a ground on the block above the A/C compressor.

I'm stumped. Any helpful advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA

Don't worry about the fuel pump right now. If the starter isn't being activated, you need to figure that out first. Get a cheap multimeter and an assistant and figure out if voltage is getting to the starter. First, check the battery voltage on the battery terminals, not the cable connectors, while someone has the key in the start position. It should drop but stay above 10V or so. Next move your probes to the cable connectors and do the same thing. Shouldn't be much different. If it is, you have a bad connection at the battery. Keep moving your probes toward the starter until you find a place where the voltage is getting lost.

12.2v sounds too low (you should get closer to 12.6v, temperature dependent. Yeah, 0.4v is all it takes to get to no-start). 11v with key to start sounds like the starter load is pulling the voltage down (as expected), but to a point where the starter does not have enough voltage to turn. So I would charge the battery first.

(RJR thinks 10v might do it, but your multimeter reading could be off by a volt, and even 11v is pushing it.)

The fuel pump does NOT run with the key at "position before cranking." It doesn't start until the key is to STArt. (and if your starter isn't turning, you should be able to hear he pump. I can hear mine in a quiet garage standing at the diag. connector.)

There are a handful of other useful tests to do with the multimeter, but I would start by charging the battery, and if that doesn't do it, "follow the volts" as RJR describes.

OK. I had my assistant (8yr old son) sit in the cab and turn the key when told. I measure the voltage at the battery terminals static and load both @ 12.4v. At the connections it was 12.36v both static and load. Then I pulled the clicking starter relay out of the fuse box and measure the top (if looking at it from passenger side fender) terminal. THAT was only 10.31v static and 10.19 with load. Any idea what could be causing that? I did upgrade the size of the wiring when I installed the bigger alternator but I swear I was careful to keep everything in the stock location.

Sounds like not enough power is not getting to your starter solenoid, so you do not load the battery.
AND there is high resistance from battery to that "top"

I'd like to help but I have a 22RE so I would not know what "top" is.
Please put us at your truck. See signature.

Here's a picture of my starter relay: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...switch-287859/
(Note my comment about how YOU have to figure out which pin goes where.)

On mine, pin 5 (which you might describe as "top") goes to the key switch, so it should have 12.6v with key to STArt, but 0v otherwise.

As a quick acid-test, try using a piece of heavy-enough wire to connect pin 3 to 12v as I have.

Generally, finding 10v anywhere in a vehicle is a bad sign. You start with 12.6v, and all the switches are only that; off or on. If you really have 10.3v at the starter relay, something is causing a big voltage drop, and with very little current. In your case, my first guess would be the ignition switch. For that, you can disconnect it at the steering column, and explore it with your ohmmeter.

Thanks for the replies guys. I have the day off and I guess I get to spend it trying to locate this issue. Oh, and don't worry about the 80a alternator fuse LOL. I had this issue before I butchered it. I'll pick up another one at the wrecking yard.

Here are a couple pics:
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...a637db365a.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...f358261353.jpg
With key turned to "start".

Cool.
But please show closer picture of relay socket and indicate what color wire goes to which pin. If u have pin numbers from your schematic, so.much better.
(I have a 22RE so different from mine).
BTW, I like the battery terminals. Interface between battery and termnals are bare, shiny metal, correct?

Pls check if this schematic and wire colors are same as yours.
Then, with relay removed, probe pin 5 as shown in picture.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XfAkYjgzJsmFwABi6

Pin 5 shud always hav 12V even with IGN off.
Pin 1 shud only hav 12V whn in crank position.
Let us know what u find out

Just copy and paste url to picture. Not loading right frm my smartphone.

Thank you for the schmatic! OK. I verified that it is pin5 with the larger white wire going to it which is only reading 10.3v with the ignition ON and reads 0v with the ignition OFF. Pin1 and Pin3 read 0v no matter what. Pin2 reads 0v when ignition OFF and 12.6v when the ignition is turned to START.

Are you absolutely, positively sure that PIn 5 has power when IG is on and even when not in START position? According to schematic, Pin 5 is connected directly with no switches in between, to battery through fuse block.

Sounds like your starter relay is wired wrong, contrary to schematic, just like any other trucks with torsion bars AND IFS like these.

BUT, let's be thorough, unlike incompetent shops/techs/stealerships.
Sounds like wires are contrary to schematic.
Please help us help you and others in the future by doubel checking your wires and relay pins.
With relay off the vehicle, Which TWO RELAY pins have SOME resistance between them? Which pin and wire color in the socket do they go to? When you connect these 2 pins to 12V, relay should click.
The remaining pins will have continuity between each other. When relay is disconnected from 12V these two remaining ins should have no continuity.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Y1...T=w979-h736-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0B...f=w644-h762-no

I had a jumper with a momentary switch that I made for my chopper years back and used that to jump the starter. I connected on end to the +B and other side to Pin3. I hit the button and the motor cranked like butter!!
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...9912af66c9.jpg
Soooo I guess my issue is in the ignition switch?

In a way you're bypassing the ST1 contacts of the ignition switch AND the starter relay contacts pins 5 to 3, just like Scope103's remote start does.
Yes you have some voltage drop across the ignition switch ST1 contacts, that's from years of stress from carrying the approx 12Amps needed to energize the starter solenoid, because of the wrong wiring of starter relay.
Options: You can either:
1) Stay with the "jumper method", OR
2) Connect Pin 5 directly to battery through a fuse wire. 30-amps and12AWG should work.

OK. It wasn't easy but I was able to flip the fuse box over just enough to trace the wires...
Pin5 = White (larger wire)
Pin1 = Black/Red stripe (skinny wire)
Pin2 = Black w/ red dots (skinny wire)
Pin3 = Black/White (larger wire)

According to the schematic Pin1 and Pin2 wires a switched. Im not sure how much that affects anything because this truck actually ran before I tore into the top end of the motor. I did not touch ANY of that wiring in the fuse block. All I did was disconnect the stock alternator wire from the 80a fuse because I ran bigger wire from the alternator straight to the battery.

I may have found the issue... I pulled the dash apart and started checking voltage at the ignition. All was measuring around 12.4 volts UNTIL I traced the white wire going into this white fuse block in the drivers side kick panel. I measured the voltage at the spade connector in which the harness plugs into that runs to the relay under the hood. BINGO! It only measured 10.29v. I guess I have to pull the cover off of it and look inside to see what is going on inside there. The female spade connector in the plug has some corrosion on it so maybe water got inside?

Pics:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...cae86dd7a7.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...81e8d00608.jpg

The "male" side of that connector is the "Integration Relay." The White wire provides always-on power TO the integration relay, so if you measure voltage to ground on the connector (female) side, you should get battery voltage (not 10.3). The male side powers the turn signals and taillights; I'm not sure why you're getting a non-zero voltage there.

That is strange. The male side is definitely reading 10.3v and the plug (female side) is reading 0v. Somebody definitely messed with wiring under the dash because they tapped off a power source to add electric windows but like I said, the truck did start and run prior to the motor work and I didn't mess with any of this wiring which is now giving me fits. Im really scratching my head. I ordered a FSM wiring book for my truck so hopefully that will help. I just really need to get this truck running because I need it for work.

The click-only issue with wrong starter / starter solenoid is often intermittent. Some solenoid plungers may operate more smoothly than others depending on conditions and that could mask the problem. Pls keep us posted when yuo get your schematic and verified that the truck is wired correctly.

UPDATE:

Factory wiring manual wont be here until 12/10 but I'm impatient and tried to do a little more digging today. This is what I know... The fat black/red wire from the ignition goes comes out on the otherside of the plug below the dash as a fat white wire. That appears to be factory. The red circled plug has 12.52v all the time. That loom appears to go through the drivers side fender portion of firewall.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...5fd052cda8.jpg

Below is the male connector that is reading 10.3v. I peeked inside the ivory plastic housing and it doesnt seem like anything could be wrong inside there.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...3ec8d981a6.jpg

This plug circled in green goes to the upper backside of that ivory junction box. THAT must be plugged in to provide a reading at the above male connector which is reading 10.3v.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...0813853d8d.jpg

Thats all I have for now. I'm sure that isn't earth shattering information but now I'm going to test the wires in the above pic and see where that leads me. I should have an update later today. Thanks for all the support guys!!

You might want to slow down and be a little more descriptive. No one but you can see your truck. No one on this forum (well, certainly not me) has memorized every wire and ever connector on their truck.

"The wire from the ignition goes ..." I'm guessing you meant to say "the wire from connector I10, which connector goes to the ignition SWITCH, ..."

"out on the other side of the plug below the dash ..." How many plugs would guess are "below the dash"? 30? 50? I have no idea what you're talking about. (And your photo is almost less than no help.)

There IS a 2-pin connector N1
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...2eeadf3289.png
which goes to a Noise Filter. One pin is W-B to ground, the other is B-R to the ignition switch (connector I-10). B-R should have battery voltage with key-on, not all the time.

Scope- you're right. It made sense to me as I was typing it because I had just been dealing with those certain connectors and wires. It's been a few days now since I worked on the truck and I just re-read my last post... I have no idea what I was talking about so how could I expect you guys to? LOL

I was back at it today with the multimeter and I took lots of photos.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...ce58da8164.jpg
R/B wire measuring 10.2v
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...e3d2f58172.jpg
R/B wire voltage
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...e259225bb1.jpg
R/B wire 1C #4
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...e7bd69bc6f.jpg
B/R fat wire I was referring to in my previous post.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...23243cc3fa.jpg
Connection below steering column I was referring to in my previous post were it goes from B/R to W on the other side.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...433bb9fb25.jpg
Circled spade is still reading 10.2v
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...a718b03ef5.jpg
Voltage of above circled spade in integration box
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...8008172297.jpg
R/B wire traces to this female spade for the tailight relay. This connector is reading 10.2v.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...4f22823c76.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...ee02b527b5.jpg
Tail light fuse registering 0v with or without the lights on and/or brake pedal depressed.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...537e12a748.jpg
Stop fuse registering 0.25v with or without lights on and/or brake pedal depressed.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...cc88a8eb4e.jpg
stop fuse voltage reading
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...237ec57f0c.jpg
Turn fuse reads 12.3v
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...33a8a882e5.jpg
I cannot find the schematic for this connection but this wire is reading 11.24v
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...2964356942.jpg
Again I cannot find the schematic for this connection. R wire reads 0.24v

I have no idea what any of this means and I apologize if I should be including more or different information. Let me know what else I should be doing or possibly doing differently. I really appreciate everyone's help and patience with this.

I feel your pain man, I've been looking for accurate wiring diagrams for my 4runner for months. Sometimes I get lucky and catch a short on accident, but right now I'm chasing a draw on my battery for two weeks now....

Just talking about your last two photos.

Your connector has the number 84310-35480 . Gee, that sounds like a part number! (Connectors don't usually have whole part numbers, and when there is a molded number, it may be 1/2 of the part number for the connector body. If you're lucky.) So what part is it? Go to a dealer site (e.g., https://parts.lakelandtoyota.com/pro...rm=84310-35480) and search for the number. Ah ha! It's the SWITCH ASSY, TURN SIGNAL .

Now, go to one of the online FSMs (that are cited frequently in these pages) http://web.archive.org/web/201102052.../4lighting.pdf You're looking at connector B, pins 8 and 11. Pin 8 goes to the RH turn signal, 11 grounds when you turn the stalk-switch to close the taillight relay.

So why do you have voltage on either pin? With the lights off, pin 11 is just connected through the taillight relay to battery. Perhaps something is pulling just enough current through the relay coil to drop a few volts. I would expect pin 11 to go to ground (closing the relay) when you operate the switch.

What about 8? That's a head-scratcher (it goes to ground through the filaments of the turn signal bulbs). But as I've said, you should never find any voltage other than ground or battery; 10.3v is just not supposed to be anywhere. One way you CAN get this is a broken GROUND, often in the fixture. Then you're connection on pin 8 doesn't go to ground, but rather to where ground "should" be and back through the filaments of the other bulbs to some voltage source. If you have a "bad" ground instead of broken, something could be pulling just enough current through those filaments to cause the voltage crop.

Step 1: turn on the taillights. Did pin 11 go to ground?

Step 2: open up a RH turn signal fixture (I'd start with the back; they tend to corrode faster). Do you get the same 10.3v on the center pin of the turn signal bulb? Does it matter if the bulb is out? Do you get any voltage on the barrel side of the bulb base (which should be at ground)?

Pin 11 does go to ground when I turn on the lights (combination switch). I opened up both taillight housings and got mixed readings on the taillight/stop and turn signal sockets on both sides. I found a trailer pigtail spliced into the taillight wiring harness that had chunks of coating missing and wedged against the sheetmetal of the bed. I thought maybe it was grounding there so I cut out the trailer connection and that made no difference. I went back up to the cab and tested all of the fuses again in the integration relay. #3 (tail) fuse read 0v. #6 (stop) fuse read 9.7v. The #2 pin on the taillight relay connection also read 9.7v.

Turn signals: While they were flashing I measured the center of the sockets. The power probe was displaying "ground" with voltages between 3.4v to 5.6v. If I put power to it, the relay would stop flashing and I got a reading of 11.8v. #9 Turn signal fuse reads 12.2v.

Taillights: I got a reading of 0v on one of the center pins and 0.8v on the other in the same socket. The reading was identical on both RH and LH taillight sockets.

Cruise Control ECU connector: Pin 1 read 10.5v. Pin 17 reads 0.8v. Pin 18 reads 9.7v. Pin 19 reads 11.1v.

I was confused before but now I am absolutely perplexed.I have the FSM chasis repair manual and the FSM wiring book I swear I just stare at the pages trying to make sense of it all and I feel more lost. I saw some sort of tool that send a tone through the circuit and you use a transmitter to find the exact location of the short. Its made by Power Probe... are they any good?
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...78c2df7b39.jpg
Turn signal socket (turn signals OFF)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...c6e3f22f41.jpg
Put power to turn signal center pin but only allows 11.8v
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...db0aa0c1ec.jpg
#3 fuse
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...d8a5332005.jpg
#6 fuse
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...08811111a4.jpg
LH taillight center pin
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...ae1f32ecd8.jpg
LH taillight other center pin
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...809ffd42f2.jpg
RH taillight center pin
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...3ec519ac2d.jpg
RH taillight other center pin
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...5868699e1f.jpg
LH turn signal (putting power to it thru power probe)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...5124818a7b.jpg
LH turn signal high reading (while flashing)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...d9d45f3ac2.jpg
LH turn signal low reading (while flashing)
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...904e5a934f.jpg
RH turn signal (putting power to it thru power probe)
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...53a0560169.jpg
RH turn signal low reading (while flashing)
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...9ac9c04087.jpg
RH turn signal high reading (while flashing)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...d0a033195f.jpg
#2 pin taillight relay connection
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...4bc9b8a7f8.jpg
#10 pin Speed Control ECU
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...6d4e5d1d40.jpg
#17 pin Speed Control ECU
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...8423d7c6be.jpg
#17 pin Speed Control ECU
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...e9b4a0358f.jpg
#18 pin Speed Control ECU
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...de8e3364e1.jpg
#18 pin speed control ECU
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...371d36cd47.jpg
#19 pin Speed Control ECU
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...bad120f88c.jpg
#19 pin Speed Control ECU

Well... I stared at the schematics for about 3 hours this morning trying to figure out where certain wires went to and which colors they were. I guess part of my frustration is that some of the wire colors aren't the same in my truck as they are in the books (yes, they are for model year 1993). Another frustration is that the white starter relay wire isn't routed the way it shows in the books either so I ended up just jumping 12v to the white starter relay wire similar to how the FSM has it. The truck starts now and appears to have 12.2v everywhere. Now the truck is idling high (2k rpm) and white smoke is coming out from under the intake plenum. It looks like the injectors are leaking fuel. This truck might end up in the shop after all...

Just an FYI here. I believe you can go to Toyota TIS site and buy a 3 day subscription to have access to most Toyota manuals. Buy the 3 day subscription and download everything you can get your hands on lol. The wiring diagrams are awesome. Color coded and accurate.

Toyota Tis