snippits

Lots of back and forth banter on the net about which head gasket is best. From reading over various forums for over a year, X slipper plate designed head gasket is junk to Fel-Pro design is junk, and the complete opposite that X slipper plate design is fantastic and Fel-Pro is all I will use. All this chatter leads me to believe that there is quality issues with whatever head gasket, or that the installer simply did not do all the steps necessary for a successful repair.

I bought my 92 Toyota pickup 22RE 2wd a couple years ago. I put about 8,000 miles on it, and the head gasket let go with coolant going out the exhaust. I don't have any repair history on this truck. When I tore it down to replace the head gasket, it had a slipper plate designed gasket on it, and it looked like a new gasket. The gasket failed on the number 3 cylinder(between number 4) on the exhaust side.

I did install a Toyota head gasket after reading all the back and forth banter about which head gasket to use. The first Toyota head gasket I got that was made in Japan, and it had a bad spot on one of the fire rings. Sent it back, and the next Toyota head gasket I got was made in Thailand, and it was in good shape. It looked exactly like the made in Japan gasket that was returned. The Toyota OEM gasket is slipper plate design too.

Almost all head gasket kits available have the slipper plate design except for Fel-Pro. I posted on the Fel-Pro forums asking why they don't use the slipper plate design head gasket, and why I should choose their head gasket. I think I got an excellent answer to my questions.

Below is the Fel-Pro reply. When the pictures is mentioned. It was pictures of Mahle and Rock slipper plate head gaskets and a Fel-Pro.

Hi BigD,

First some background on the slipper plate design and why it is used:
The idea of the slipper plate design head gasket is to allow the aluminum head to “slide” as it expands & contracts from heat & cooling. The metal used as the slipper plate prevents the surface of the head from “grabbing” the sealing material and shearing it off. Depending on what the slipper plate is made from may not provide a good coolant seal.

Aluminum expands 1.5 more than cast iron. So what happens is the head movement creates a shearing motion that over time can degrade the head gasket, causing it to eventually fail. The other issue is that there are only 4 bolts sealing each cylinder. Less bolts equals less loading on the head gasket, which leads to a higher chance of failure. Since we can’t change what Toyota has created, we are forced to work with what we are given.

The other two head gaskets in the picture use graphite as the sealing medium. Graphite requires a perforated core to give it strength, but graphite is pretty slippery.

Our head gasket has a PTFE coating which is very slippery. PTFE is commonly known by its trade name Teflon. This coating allows the head to slide without shearing the gasket material. The coating also improves micro-sealing of the sealing surfaces. Our gasket uses a solid, steel core with the facing material bonded to it. The facing material has fibers running through it to give it more strength than graphite. We use this PermaTorque design on many bi-metal engines with good results, including this engine.

Keep in mind that those who have had repeated failures out there on the Internet and forums may not be assembling the engine per the factory manual. Poor surface finish, out-of-flat conditions, not using a calibrated torque wrench, underlying cooling system issues and other conditions that can all contribute to an early head gasket failure.

Whose gasket should you choose? We know we have a proven design that works on bi-metal engines that has been out there for many years. We cannot speak to how well the slipper plate design will work. Remember that whichever gasket you choose, the repair will last only as long as the prep work that is done is done correctly. Flat sealing surfaces, proper surface finish, clean & dry sealing surfaces, proper installation methods, torque wrench in calibration, correct torque sequence are some of the factors that go into a proper head gasket repair.

millball

The Japanese made Ishino/Stone headgaskets for 22r engines are a plain graphite type without slipper plate. I haven't had opportunity to examine Stone gaskets made for 3vz.

I like these plain graphite head gaskets and have used them on several rebuilds, both Toyota and other aluminum head, iron block combos. I would not use any slipper plate gasket.

Seems to me that slipper plate gaskets might, I say MIGHT, give some longevity benefit on engines started up at sub-zero temps and run hard before temperature equalizing warm up occurs.

Just speculating.

I live where cold temps are moderate and I don't run them hard until warmed up well. I also use a two stage thermostat that helps prevent thermal shock on warmup.

I'm not sure when Toyota began factory builds with slipper plate gaskets, but most of the 1980's engines I have opened didn't have them installed/

snippits

This is the first 22R/RE engine I have ever worked on, so I can't say what Toyota was using for head gasket design even in 1992. Not sure they were even using slipper plate back then on factory installed head gaskets.

Purely speculation. I think Toyota changed the head gasket design some where along the line--this could be years after the 22R/RE engines were no longer produced-- and then most all aftermarket followed.

L5wolvesf

Interesting post as is their reply. Could you post up the URL?

In my experiences with bi-metal engines I have not had problems caused directly by FelPro head gaskets. This includes my 84 pickup which has had a FelPro head gasket on since 2011. I have also used FelPro on race engines - specifically a Fiat 850 which, in stock form, are notorious for blown head gaskets. The engines I raced were far from stock (11:1 compression and run at 8500 rpm). As part of race prep we did O-ring the cylinders, but the rest of the gasket never failed.

The part of their reply that addresses installation issues plays a large part in the longevity of a head gasket R & R as it does with any repair. We have seen here where people buy a used vehicle that has been hacked and jerry-rigged together - engine repairs have not been exempt from that kind of treatment. So I tend to wonder about whether a part, be it gaskets or any other part, are installed properly as part of a diagnosis when people ask about their problem here, or on any other sites.

snippits

For what ever reason I can't post a direct link to their forums. No registration required to post because support approves posts.

I can point you to the forum on their website though. It's the forum titled Head Gaskets in the section of Engine Sealing. Topic is: 1992 Toyota pickup 22RE Head Gasket 26185 PT.

http://www.felpro.com/professional-forum.html

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

When I went and picked up my motor parts a few years ago from engnbldr I asked him about this whole mess.
I am paraphrasing now as it was a few years ago but,
He indicates that he thought a lot of the "fast failures" were not due to the head gasket but getting a head a block decked and not adjusting the timing. Then it runs hot and pops a gasket. So back to the milling again for the block and head and it pops faster. They buy a good used block and new head and slap a toyota gasket on it and no more problems. So it has to be the toyota gasket obviously.

No this is remembering a 3 year old conversation so I am sure i messed something up. But that is the jist of it as I remember...

L5wolvesf

Yes, this goes along with the whole was the job done right thing. I read about people having the block decked and usually wonder why. Like the FelPro guy wrote "Aluminum expands 1.5 more than cast iron." So in most cases I would imagine the head has warped long before the block. I am also taking into consideration there is a lot more mass to the block. I can't recall ever milling a block, except for performance/compression gain.

Tj Hessmon

Design Engineering
Remember folks that what is being described by Fel-Pro is an aftermarket application, not a new OEM application. Fel-Pro has been engineering gaskets for literally decades, for both the aftermarket and OEM new applications. These are not people who are unfamiliar with gasket applications. They make gaskets for some of the most demanding applications in the world. Where its an easy thing for a gasket maker to mimic OEM design, its all together a different story which those who actually design head gaskets for aftermarket applications, where conditions are not pristine.

Aftermarket VS OEM design
The reason I mentioned aftermarket is that the surface conditions of both the cylinder block and cylinder head will not be the same was they were when the engine was originally constructed and freshly machined at the factory. Unless one is going to the trouble of micro-finishing the block and heads, there will be variation from OEM finish to deal with related to a successful repair with aftermarket parts. This equates to different materials being used in a replacement gasket when compared to an OEM (factory) release. Where one may not have success with the OEM design, they might have great success with an aftermarket design, which has specific material changes, intended to meet the demands of now used components with some minor variation in surface finish, mate together. What this can equate to in a head gasket design, is probably a thicker gasket and a very different sealing surface finish from OEM (Something that bears the best advantage for sealing used parts together).

Cleaning
If one does the proper work and verifies head and block flatness and makes sure the finish is not bunged up from neanderthal approaches to cleaning away prior gasket debris, then all should be well with the finished job. Aluminum is not a material which is forgiving to the use of machine operated sanding disks, rotary sanders and gouging tools, as medium to remove old gasket material. Aluminum is best treated with much more care than cast iron. Chemical removal, with the aid of non scratching tools, and a good medium of patience is probably the best order of the day for old head gasket material removal and the retention of proper surface finish. This goes double where the engine block and heads are both aluminum.