'87 SR5 Turbo - 2nd Gen Brake Upgrade Worth It?
06-14-2018, 07:24 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
'87 SR5 Turbo - 2nd Gen v6 Brake Upgrade Worth It for a Turbo?
My front rotors are warped on my new '87 SR5 Turbo that I picked up last weekend. I'm also upgrading from 29's to 32's with an OME 2.5" Lift. Right now my brakes feel spongy (I have a different thread on this), so I at least need new front rotors and pads before I put the new tires on.
Tonight I spent a few hours reading all about the V6 Caliper, Rotor, Pad, MC, and Booster upgrade. But all of them were done to non-Turbo 1st gen's. My Turbo already has the Dual Diaphragm booster, but only the 13/16 MC and I assume regular 4cyl Calipers, Rotors, and Pads.
So, is the upgrade worth it for a Turbo that already has an upgraded booster?
Or should I just put some new slotted/drilled rotors/pads on and call it done - kit on amazon below:
If it is worth it, I assume I only need to do MC, Calipers, Rotors, and Pads? Potential parts below:
1" MC from Marlin Crawler below:
https://www.marlincrawler.com/brake/...aster-cylinder
2nd Gen v6 Calipers:
2nd Gen v6 Rotors and Pads:
I also need to check my rear drums to see what I need back there. I'd love to do the rear disk conversion, but the T-Case E-brake makes it not worth it IMO.
Thanks.
Tonight I spent a few hours reading all about the V6 Caliper, Rotor, Pad, MC, and Booster upgrade. But all of them were done to non-Turbo 1st gen's. My Turbo already has the Dual Diaphragm booster, but only the 13/16 MC and I assume regular 4cyl Calipers, Rotors, and Pads.
So, is the upgrade worth it for a Turbo that already has an upgraded booster?
Or should I just put some new slotted/drilled rotors/pads on and call it done - kit on amazon below:
If it is worth it, I assume I only need to do MC, Calipers, Rotors, and Pads? Potential parts below:
1" MC from Marlin Crawler below:
https://www.marlincrawler.com/brake/...aster-cylinder
2nd Gen v6 Calipers:
2nd Gen v6 Rotors and Pads:
I also need to check my rear drums to see what I need back there. I'd love to do the rear disk conversion, but the T-Case E-brake makes it not worth it IMO.
Thanks.
Last edited by Charles4x4; 06-15-2018 at 05:39 AM.
06-14-2018, 11:31 PM
#2
I am curious Just How Hot did those Brakes get to warp your Calipers ??
I have yet to see any real world numbers on these brake upgrades
I am to lazy to crunch the numbers myself to much like work.
You have worn and faulty brakes You put on new parts of course it works better.
If I have ever done any Brake upgrades it was by accident
I always brought everything up to spec and had good brakes not having to wait for a week for parts if needed.
Bottom line it it is yours enjoy
I have yet to see any real world numbers on these brake upgrades
I am to lazy to crunch the numbers myself to much like work.
You have worn and faulty brakes You put on new parts of course it works better.
If I have ever done any Brake upgrades it was by accident
I always brought everything up to spec and had good brakes not having to wait for a week for parts if needed.
Bottom line it it is yours enjoy
06-15-2018, 05:41 AM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
I am curious Just How Hot did those Brakes get to warp your Calipers ??
I have yet to see any real world numbers on these brake upgrades
I am to lazy to crunch the numbers myself to much like work.
You have worn and faulty brakes You put on new parts of course it works better.
If I have ever done any Brake upgrades it was by accident
I always brought everything up to spec and had good brakes not having to wait for a week for parts if needed.
Bottom line it it is yours enjoy
I have yet to see any real world numbers on these brake upgrades
I am to lazy to crunch the numbers myself to much like work.
You have worn and faulty brakes You put on new parts of course it works better.
If I have ever done any Brake upgrades it was by accident
I always brought everything up to spec and had good brakes not having to wait for a week for parts if needed.
Bottom line it it is yours enjoy
There are a ton of threads claiming the V6 or T100 upgrade is great but the math is certainly hard to prove.
And because it’s just a later model, no issues with availability. For example, I just looked for calipers, rotors, and pads for a ‘90 4Runner v6 instead of my truck.
However not not many seem to be upgrading Turbos because we already have a Dual Diaphragm MC...
06-15-2018, 07:50 AM
#4
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Rotors are the same for all 4x4 IFS Pickups and 4runners from 1986 to 1995 no matter what engine, turbo, or whatever.
Calipers have bigger pistons on V6 trucks and also bigger pads. At some point in the early 90's the bigger calipers/pads were used regardless of engine. For purposes of this thread, we'll call these V6 calipers.
The V6 calipers are used with a 1 inch bore master cylinder. Using the smaller 4 cylinder master cylinder with the V6 calipers will result in longer pedal travel since the bigger V6 caliper pistons take more fluid the move the same linear distance. Would recommend use both V6 calipers and MC or neither.
Dual diaphragm booster makes a big difference. Use it. It provides way more power assist.
FJ80 wheel cylinders can be used in the rear. They bolt in. No need to change shoes or anything else. They have a slightly bigger bore.
My recommended parts list for the best braking setup is:
Rotors for any 1986-1995 4x4 PU/4Runner
1994 4Runner V6 calipers
1994 4Runner V6 pads
1994 4Runner V6 dual diaphragm brake booster
1994 4Runner V6 brake master cylinder
Good working LSPV original to your vehicle
1994 Land Cruiser wheel cylinders
These parts are all available at junkyards and parts stores. There is no significant cost difference between a stock refresh and this upgrade since all parts are simply factory parts from other years/models. Drums work great when properly adjusted and work for 150,000+ miles. Disk conversions may have potential to be better but it's a big can of worms. Keep the LSPV. No manual proportioning valve will ever be as good. Once you buy a manual valve and the fittings and adapters, you're approaching the price of a new LSPV. LSPV's are available new OEM for less than $130.
Some people list parts from T100's. I have no experience with these. I'm sure some parts are the same. For simplicity's sake, just go to the parts store and order brake parts for the vehicles I listed. If you're at the junkyard and have a T100 available but no 2nd Gen 4Runners, do your own homework to determine compatibility.
Calipers have bigger pistons on V6 trucks and also bigger pads. At some point in the early 90's the bigger calipers/pads were used regardless of engine. For purposes of this thread, we'll call these V6 calipers.
The V6 calipers are used with a 1 inch bore master cylinder. Using the smaller 4 cylinder master cylinder with the V6 calipers will result in longer pedal travel since the bigger V6 caliper pistons take more fluid the move the same linear distance. Would recommend use both V6 calipers and MC or neither.
Dual diaphragm booster makes a big difference. Use it. It provides way more power assist.
FJ80 wheel cylinders can be used in the rear. They bolt in. No need to change shoes or anything else. They have a slightly bigger bore.
My recommended parts list for the best braking setup is:
Rotors for any 1986-1995 4x4 PU/4Runner
1994 4Runner V6 calipers
1994 4Runner V6 pads
1994 4Runner V6 dual diaphragm brake booster
1994 4Runner V6 brake master cylinder
Good working LSPV original to your vehicle
1994 Land Cruiser wheel cylinders
These parts are all available at junkyards and parts stores. There is no significant cost difference between a stock refresh and this upgrade since all parts are simply factory parts from other years/models. Drums work great when properly adjusted and work for 150,000+ miles. Disk conversions may have potential to be better but it's a big can of worms. Keep the LSPV. No manual proportioning valve will ever be as good. Once you buy a manual valve and the fittings and adapters, you're approaching the price of a new LSPV. LSPV's are available new OEM for less than $130.
Some people list parts from T100's. I have no experience with these. I'm sure some parts are the same. For simplicity's sake, just go to the parts store and order brake parts for the vehicles I listed. If you're at the junkyard and have a T100 available but no 2nd Gen 4Runners, do your own homework to determine compatibility.
06-15-2018, 08:40 AM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Rotors are the same for all 4x4 IFS Pickups and 4runners from 1986 to 1995 no matter what engine, turbo, or whatever.
Calipers have bigger pistons on V6 trucks and also bigger pads. At some point in the early 90's the bigger calipers/pads were used regardless of engine. For purposes of this thread, we'll call these V6 calipers.
The V6 calipers are used with a 1 inch bore master cylinder. Using the smaller 4 cylinder master cylinder with the V6 calipers will result in longer pedal travel since the bigger V6 caliper pistons take more fluid the move the same linear distance. Would recommend use both V6 calipers and MC or neither.
Dual diaphragm booster makes a big difference. Use it. It provides way more power assist.
FJ80 wheel cylinders can be used in the rear. They bolt in. No need to change shoes or anything else. They have a slightly bigger bore.
My recommended parts list for the best braking setup is:
Rotors for any 1986-1995 4x4 PU/4Runner
1994 4Runner V6 calipers
1994 4Runner V6 pads
1994 4Runner V6 dual diaphragm brake booster
1994 4Runner V6 brake master cylinder
Good working LSPV original to your vehicle
1994 Land Cruiser wheel cylinders
These parts are all available at junkyards and parts stores. There is no significant cost difference between a stock refresh and this upgrade since all parts are simply factory parts from other years/models. Drums work great when properly adjusted and work for 150,000+ miles. Disk conversions may have potential to be better but it's a big can of worms. Keep the LSPV. No manual proportioning valve will ever be as good. Once you buy a manual valve and the fittings and adapters, you're approaching the price of a new LSPV. LSPV's are available new OEM for less than $130.
Some people list parts from T100's. I have no experience with these. I'm sure some parts are the same. For simplicity's sake, just go to the parts store and order brake parts for the vehicles I listed. If you're at the junkyard and have a T100 available but no 2nd Gen 4Runners, do your own homework to determine compatibility.
Calipers have bigger pistons on V6 trucks and also bigger pads. At some point in the early 90's the bigger calipers/pads were used regardless of engine. For purposes of this thread, we'll call these V6 calipers.
The V6 calipers are used with a 1 inch bore master cylinder. Using the smaller 4 cylinder master cylinder with the V6 calipers will result in longer pedal travel since the bigger V6 caliper pistons take more fluid the move the same linear distance. Would recommend use both V6 calipers and MC or neither.
Dual diaphragm booster makes a big difference. Use it. It provides way more power assist.
FJ80 wheel cylinders can be used in the rear. They bolt in. No need to change shoes or anything else. They have a slightly bigger bore.
My recommended parts list for the best braking setup is:
Rotors for any 1986-1995 4x4 PU/4Runner
1994 4Runner V6 calipers
1994 4Runner V6 pads
1994 4Runner V6 dual diaphragm brake booster
1994 4Runner V6 brake master cylinder
Good working LSPV original to your vehicle
1994 Land Cruiser wheel cylinders
These parts are all available at junkyards and parts stores. There is no significant cost difference between a stock refresh and this upgrade since all parts are simply factory parts from other years/models. Drums work great when properly adjusted and work for 150,000+ miles. Disk conversions may have potential to be better but it's a big can of worms. Keep the LSPV. No manual proportioning valve will ever be as good. Once you buy a manual valve and the fittings and adapters, you're approaching the price of a new LSPV. LSPV's are available new OEM for less than $130.
Some people list parts from T100's. I have no experience with these. I'm sure some parts are the same. For simplicity's sake, just go to the parts store and order brake parts for the vehicles I listed. If you're at the junkyard and have a T100 available but no 2nd Gen 4Runners, do your own homework to determine compatibility.
If so, I have two options:
1) I keep my current setup and simply put on better 1st gen Pads/Rotors
2) I swap to the v6 setup and have to buy a 1" MC and new Calipers (in addition to 2nd gen v6 Pads/Rotors)
The cost difference on #2 is likely $100-150 and will take more time to upgrade (bleeding the MC and entire system, etc).
Think #2 is worth the extra time/cost?
06-15-2018, 10:10 AM
#6
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I've never worked on a Turbo myself, but I've heard they use the same booster as the V6 trucks. My research shows they use the regular 4 cylinder calipers though. Once again, this is research, not based on experience.
I'd recommend good pads no matter what calipers they fit on, but there's certainly nothing unsafe about cheap pads. They just don't last as long, may be dustier (if you care), and perhaps have a slightly longer braking distance. The dual diaphragm booster makes a large difference, but you already have it. I have not tried the dual diaphragm booster with 4 cylinder master and calipers (this would be the factory setup on a turbo truck). I have tried the V6 master and calipers with the 4 cylinder booster and it was slightly better than all 4 cylinder parts. The big upgrade came when I finally sourced a working dual diaphragm booster. If you have a spongy pedal, you'll probably end up having to bleed the brakes anyway, so don't count the additional labor into your decision, it's needed either way. It's up to you whether you were happy with how your brakes were before and just want them to work like they used to, or if it's worth it to you to spend a bit more and get an bit of an upgrade.
I'd recommend good pads no matter what calipers they fit on, but there's certainly nothing unsafe about cheap pads. They just don't last as long, may be dustier (if you care), and perhaps have a slightly longer braking distance. The dual diaphragm booster makes a large difference, but you already have it. I have not tried the dual diaphragm booster with 4 cylinder master and calipers (this would be the factory setup on a turbo truck). I have tried the V6 master and calipers with the 4 cylinder booster and it was slightly better than all 4 cylinder parts. The big upgrade came when I finally sourced a working dual diaphragm booster. If you have a spongy pedal, you'll probably end up having to bleed the brakes anyway, so don't count the additional labor into your decision, it's needed either way. It's up to you whether you were happy with how your brakes were before and just want them to work like they used to, or if it's worth it to you to spend a bit more and get an bit of an upgrade.
06-15-2018, 10:42 AM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
I've never worked on a Turbo myself, but I've heard they use the same booster as the V6 trucks. My research shows they use the regular 4 cylinder calipers though. Once again, this is research, not based on experience.
I'd recommend good pads no matter what calipers they fit on, but there's certainly nothing unsafe about cheap pads. They just don't last as long, may be dustier (if you care), and perhaps have a slightly longer braking distance. The dual diaphragm booster makes a large difference, but you already have it. I have not tried the dual diaphragm booster with 4 cylinder master and calipers (this would be the factory setup on a turbo truck). I have tried the V6 master and calipers with the 4 cylinder booster and it was slightly better than all 4 cylinder parts. The big upgrade came when I finally sourced a working dual diaphragm booster. If you have a spongy pedal, you'll probably end up having to bleed the brakes anyway, so don't count the additional labor into your decision, it's needed either way. It's up to you whether you were happy with how your brakes were before and just want them to work like they used to, or if it's worth it to you to spend a bit more and get an bit of an upgrade.
I'd recommend good pads no matter what calipers they fit on, but there's certainly nothing unsafe about cheap pads. They just don't last as long, may be dustier (if you care), and perhaps have a slightly longer braking distance. The dual diaphragm booster makes a large difference, but you already have it. I have not tried the dual diaphragm booster with 4 cylinder master and calipers (this would be the factory setup on a turbo truck). I have tried the V6 master and calipers with the 4 cylinder booster and it was slightly better than all 4 cylinder parts. The big upgrade came when I finally sourced a working dual diaphragm booster. If you have a spongy pedal, you'll probably end up having to bleed the brakes anyway, so don't count the additional labor into your decision, it's needed either way. It's up to you whether you were happy with how your brakes were before and just want them to work like they used to, or if it's worth it to you to spend a bit more and get an bit of an upgrade.
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06-15-2018, 01:41 PM
#8
However, Charles, I'm betting you'll see that inspecting/refurbishing your brakes to good stock condition would be your biggest upgrade to its state now.
We were on a trip once and I was hearing metallic squeal on my friend's van. He later said his brakes were spongy so we stopped, opened the rear brakes up and found that the e-brake adjuster fell out of its mount and was just rolling around inside the drum. The adjusting lever/pawl was not engaging the ratchet anymore (It's a Ford van - LOL). A little filing, a little bending and all was good until he got a shop job.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 06-15-2018 at 01:42 PM.
02-25-2020, 03:05 PM
#9
Registered User
I'm gonna bump this thread,
I have all the parts needed to do this swap on my truck, but I noticed that there is a rubber spacer behind the dual diaphragm booster.
Does this spacer need to be installed on a truck?
The booster came off 94 runner, maybe the firewall is different than my 88 pickup.
If you have done this mod, how did you handle, or not, the spacer?
I have all the parts needed to do this swap on my truck, but I noticed that there is a rubber spacer behind the dual diaphragm booster.
Does this spacer need to be installed on a truck?
The booster came off 94 runner, maybe the firewall is different than my 88 pickup.
If you have done this mod, how did you handle, or not, the spacer?
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