DIRT8IKE

I've been having this weird issue with my 4Runner where after driving it and then going to start it very briefly after you turn it off you receive no noise or cranking from anything. The starter makes no noise the engine makes no noise but the lights on the dash come on. You can even see the lights like in the clock dim as you crank it. After you wait about 10-15 minutes it suddenly works fine again and then its good for a couple weeks. The car starts perfectly 9.9 times out of 10 but this happens occasionally and with no warning. Has anybody else encountered a similar issue on their car and if so how'd you fix it? Where should I maybe look as well. The starter is brand new, the battery's new, and the battery cables are good. I don't know what the results were previously with the original starter because we never had it, but we have had one new starter before this one that encountered this problem once so I'm fairly certain it's not the starter. Thank you for any help!

L5wolvesf

Many here have BTDT. Search for "starter relay" posts and find where RAD4runner has posted. He is the Guru of Toyota electrics.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Bad ignition switch (clean it), bad relay layout (find the sticky thread), or failing Fusible link wire (check voltage to distribution block under load and/or hot)

DIRT8IKE

Alright I know the ignition switch where the actual key goes is good because we replaced it brand new recently, also whats a BTDT. And where would I check that fusible link wire?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Been There Done That

Does how you have the truck parked make a difference ??

As your starter is grounded through the block I had some with Poor ground connections Finicky like that.

Once things settled it started

You don`t say Manual or Auto Clutch Safety Switch or neutral safety switches can be a pain sometimes

RAD4Runner

Sorry, duplicate.

RAD4Runner

Good job describing your truck on signature. Wish more people would do that.
"A340H"
BTDT...
Pls check your Neutral Safety Switch and wiring, and https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post52297396

DIRT8IKE

Haha thanks I tried to make it somewhat clear about my truck. And I'm not sure whether the parking makes a difference, but my bet would be no because it has been on flat ground when this happened and on a fairly slight incline. When it finally decides to crank it's in the same position as before. I wouldn't be completely floored about grounding issue however because currently we are using gasket material to space it out an 1/8" for an unrelated issue. I would imagine it still would ground through the bolts and this wouldn't change. Probably still gonna make a sheet metal spacer to replace the current gaskets though and see if that helps. I haven't looked into the whole Neutral Safety Switch thing yet. Unfamiliar with it and what it does, but doesn't hurt to do some more research! Thank you everybody for the help! I'll get back to you with any new results for anybody who has a problem like this in the future

And now that I think about it the Neutral Safety Switch might make a lot of sense because my shifter has quite a lot of slop in it. Looking into it I think I've found out that the slop is due to that there's bushings in there that wear out over time because my linkage is just fine. I heard you can get these bushings at the dealer pretty cheap. Anybody also have a P/N and know how many I'll need?

RAD4Runner

Please see my signature

Absolutely positively sure no sound, but lights on means battery is too weak to move mechanical parts but enough to power lights.


Wanna emphasize that the 1987, among other models, has been proven to has wiring flaw explained and fixed here . Regardless of condition of battery or NSS, it needs to be fixed.

Yes, you should be concerned with ground. Good connection to ground through starter mounting to block and ground cable from block to batt negative is essential.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I bet if you run a New Ground from the Negative Battery Terminal to the bottom starter bolts it Fixes your problem.

Just why did you need to shim the starter out ??

DIRT8IKE

Reason we had to shim it out Wyoming is because for some reason when we received this car we had a problem that the starter gear was constantly engaged in the flex plate even when the starter gear retracted. This is the reason this is the 2nd new starter because we fried the first one in the process of fixing it. I know it shouldn't have to be shimmed but it does for some reason. I know that a PO did an engine rebuild on it so that would be my only possible line of thinking, that they messed something up when putting it all back together. We have to do this so the gear isn't engaged constantly. I've read up a lot on your starter relay posts RAD and would like to say first off you're really good with the electrical I've noticed! This does seem like an important issue with the distance it has to travel over to get the starter to actuate and I could potentially see this becoming an issue. I'll look into wiring in your fix with the relay, I won't lie I'm having a slightly hard time figuring out how to exactly wire everything based on them, but that just comes from lack of experience and I'll piece it together I'm sure

Thank you again everybody! I'm gonna do what I can for now, right now slightly preoccupied with the idler pulley bearing for the power steering that sucker seized on me last night so I'm looking into grabbing a new bearing tomorrow

RAD4Runner

You have an auto transmission so you do not have a starter relay. Adding a properly-wired one will help your starter system and help extend the lives of your Ignition Switch and NSS.

Just BTDT
I used 6204-RSL bearing from Fastenal. There are other sources
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post52392856

DIRT8IKE

Alright so I know this post has been dead for a while but I come bearing news... We replaced the ignition switch on the back of the key lock cylinder and that seemed to fix the issue and life got busy so we didn't get a chance to wire in a relay. But as of a couple days ago this issue became much less intermittent and much more permanent as in it's doing the same symptoms as of before but all the time now. We checked for any current at all to the starter solenoid pigtail when you crank the key and it got absolutely no signal so the traditional relay laid out wasn't gonna work for us, our decision was to wire in a push button start to a relay and attach the starter solenoid male clip to that. We got it all wired in and it will crank we put an 20 Amp in line fuse between the battery block and the 30 Amp relay we put in. The button made it crank when we pushed it which was perfect so we put the key in the on position to try and start and it just would not go, like it would start but not carry on. It then blew the fuse that we put in, twice actually. All we can think is there must be a fuel issue because its cranking but just not going. Is there anything that could possibly cause the fuel pump not to go and be related. At this point we are completely stumped and why would it be drawing so much power it's blowing a 20 Amp fuse.

RAD4Runner

A picture / diagram paints a thousand words.

DIRT8IKE

Here is pretty much what we wired in if that helps

The first two inserted upside down for some reason sorry

RAD4Runner

Apparently, you found it easier to replace the IGN switch which I already doubted was the issue.
REPEAT:
If it is bad, you would not get 12V to the spade terminal of starter solenoid, even if you had a golden Ign switch.
When you crank, do you hear the C.O.R. click behind the glove compartmen? (This detail is part of stating he problem well.)
So now, you are able to crank WITH THE RELAY, but no combustion, correct?
If you are able to crank but get no combustion (smell, hear, feel, the vroom of the 22RE) use the fuel pump check connector. Do you hear, feel the fuel pump come on?
Your added fuse probably blows from just too much cranking. Also need to address that shim issue. Therr has to be something wrong that needs to be fixed if you need a shim to make things works. That's just not the way Japanese engineering works.
Oh, sorry but a push button just makes a vehicle feel like a Prius. LOL!

DIRT8IKE

Did check the neutral safety and it's wiring and it seemed good, and we replaced the ignition switch because it was just one thing to cross off the list. Also on an update realized part of my problem was just having to put my head together to figure it out what I have to do is crank the key and push the push button at the same time in order for the fuel pump to go I realized and then it starts, and yeah trust me I'm ready to get rid of that shimming issue too haha but right now it seems to work and grounding is good, that's something that will be addressed in my upcoming auto to manual swap this summer. Really looking forward to that swap, also where is that fuel pump check connector? Is it the lone connector located on the wireloom by the battery? Also sorry I'm unfamiliar with what you mean by C.O.R. I didn't want this push button too much either but it will get the job done but I still want to fully address the problem! I have no idea in all honesty why that is receiving no signal there and my guess is just gonna be taking a multimeter and checking the wires down the trail back to the battery to see where the voltage and current drop. Seriously thank you for all the help and assistance I want to make sure that you know how much I appreciate the insight and input

EDIT: Sorry got it circuit opening relay my bad haha

RAD4Runner

So you hear, feel, smell combustion but it shuts down after you release the ignition key?

"Seemed" will not help. Exactly what made you say it seemed good? (You need to put us in that cabin or in front of engine compartment to help us help you. We need to see, hear, feel, smell what you're dealing with.)
REPEAT: If it is bad, you would not get 12V to the spade terminal of starter solenoid.
That is the reason you were not getting power to the spade terminal. Wanna repeat your test?
Wiring to stock
Try to crank.
Probe back of spade terminal of starter solenoid. Exactly what voltage do you read?

Good job Now, I repeat... Do you hear it click while you're in the process of attempting to crank and get combustion? Exactly when do you hear it click? (You need to put us in that cabin or in front of engine compartment to help us help you. We need to see, hear, feel, smell what you're dealing with.)

Fuel pump test connector is here. One side should have 12V AT ALL TIMES when ign is on. Jumping it will make fuel pump run. Try it and tell us in exact terms what you hear, feel.


How C.O.R. works: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post52387681

DIRT8IKE

Alright so I come bearing lots of news, but first want to clarify on some stuff earlier that I had said. I was able to get it to start and run fine when I have the key in the start position and push the button at the same time. Reason being because the button was only wired up to the starter so it would crank and even though the key was in the on position it wasn't sending all of the necessary signals unless it's in the start position. So my fuel pump and the C.O.R. are working perfect now also I did just look around and I couldn't find a connector that looked at all like that anywhere in the engine bay for the fuel pump check but it's not super necessary now since everything's fine and I don't need it in order to check. AND THE BIGGEST NEWS I thought about the neutral safety more and I had cleaned it out and put it back together to see if that would help when I first made this thread and it didn't seem to change the problem much, I then checked the terminals at the pigtail by looking at the wiring diagrams and using a test light to check for voltage to that pin at the black white wire that runs to the neutral safety switch. I got voltage there so I jumped it to the other terminal since I know I'll need to do that anyways for when I do my auto to manual swap this summer and it carried voltage to the starter solenoid wire so I immediately knew that my neutral safety was the problem. I rewired the relay by essentially taking the wire from the push button that would actuate the relay and putting it onto the solenoid wire that sends the signal similar to your post. Now it seems to be working perfect! That neutral safety just kept stumping me especially because I took it all apart cleaned it all out inside and put it back together nicely and then adjusted it and it was working fine for a while. Just a note to anybody else who has similar problems to check for that I guess.