JaredL

I last posted on how I decided to rebuild the engine in my 1985 4Runner after discovering it had a cracked head and over 300k miles. I ordered LCE/Toyota high-end parts (not cheap) and had a local engine builder put everything together. It is a beautiful 22RE engine and everything except the block is brand new. Once completed I installed the engine and everything else.


Fast forward to today. I was ready to fire it up but noticed I was leaking coolant. Checked everything and discovered the leak is coming from a hairline crack in the timing cover where the water pipe sticks out on top of the water pump cavity. So pissed.

I will be working with LCE in getting a new timing cover but I wonder how much of a pain it is to remove the old one and install the new. I am a little unfamiliar with this since the new timing cover was already installed from the engine builder. If everything in my engine is brand new, how deep in do I have to go to remedy this? Do I have to remove the valve cover, head, etc.?

Thanks,
JARED

gsp4life

Oh man, that really sucks. The one piece of good news I can offer is that because you had a professional build and install your engine, LCE might take full or partial responsibility for your financial loss. Definitely ask them what they can do to compensate you for your time.

If you're doing the repair yourself, the good news is that it's very doable in a long weekend for your 1st time at repair like this. You can leave the valve cover and head on, but you will need to pull front oil pan bolts, and cut the rtv seal from the pan to timing cover. You'll also want to drain the cooling system and remove the radiator for extra clearance and to protect the delicate fins from damage while you work in there.

1st thing to do however, is to remove the crank bolt. Bump starter method works great, but scares some people too badly to try it. Make a pulley-holding tool otherwise.

Ask any questions you have along the way.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

The timing cover is supposed to be machined once attached to match the engine block "deck height".

Are we talking about something you installed, with maybe the wrong sized bolt, the water bypass tube or something the builder did, with maybe the wrong sized bolt, when he attached it or forced it ( the head, or cover).

Or just a damaged part from Lce..

JaredL

Thanks for the guidance and advice and I look forward to hearing from LCE and seeing what options are available. Installing a new timing cover sounds like it shouldn't be too bad but I am a little worried about it being machined before it gets installed as I do not have the expertise or tools to do this. How necessary is machining the timing cover before reinstalling?
The crack is on the top portion of the water bypass tube (part of the timing cover) and there is certainly the possibility the engine builder did something wrong, it got damaged from the machine shop to my house, or that the part was defected all along. I know the engine builder is reputable and has been doing this for 30+ years and he would be honest with me if he thought something he did cracked it. It's a fairly long crack--at least 1 inch and along the horizontal seam. I'm not sure what kind of vibration or pressure would cause this amount of damage to this part but I am 100% sure it did not occur from the time I unloaded the engine to the time it was installed in the vehicle as I was overly meticulous and careful. I did transport the engine laying down in my truck but it was heavily cushioned with at least 5 inches of blankets, tied down, and propped up on blocks of wood. The engine builder assisted with the loading and stated I was more than protected from any damage. No bumpy roads or crazy driving from the builder to my house and the total drive time was maybe 10 minutes.

In the grand scheme of things, the parts really aren't that much--its the fact I have to tear this engine apart and reinstall. I want to do this right and am thinking of taking off the oil pan, buying a new oil pan gasket, buying the LCE timing cover bolt kit, and obtaining a new timing cover and gasket kit (either by LCE or Toyota depending on if I can get a free replacement). Hopefully that will cover it and I can tackle this over another weekend. I do have the fipg silicone from Toyota. Should I apply a thin layer to the timing cover where it mates up with the gasket or just install the paper gasket without sealant?

Thanks everyone

JARED

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

you need to be contacting both LCE and the guy that assembled your engine.
It seems that the ball bounced more in the assemblers court than any where else.
What did he say when you contacted him?
But if you transported the engine on it's side (I have never done that, always transported upright) you might be up the creek...blankets mash...

JaredL

Thanks DropZone. I left a msg for the builder to call me...hopefully they are open tomorrow. Blankets do mash but there blocks of wood (4x4's) supporting the engine--it wasn't like the engine was resting on only blankets. We'll see what they all say tomorrow. In the meantime, I'm going to start tearing things apart.

JaredL

By the way Dropzone...nice Trekker.

gsp4life

Once the old cover's off, couldn't you just send them both to the shop to make sure they're the same exact height and have the new one machined if it needs it?

JaredL

Excellent idea, gsp4life....thanks. I'll run that by the engine builder and see if that is an option.

JARED

gsp4life

If you end up not having to pull the head, be as careful as possible when pulling the timing cover to not distress the front lip of the head gasket. If it bends down or tears, you'll have to replace the head gasket.

On reinstall, put a thin layer of sealant on the bottom of the exposed head gasket and top of the new cover otherwise it'll leak oil.

The timing cover gasket should not need sealant unless you see a bad imperfection on the block surface. Don't use an oil pan gasket at all, just rtv. Those gaskets are only meant to be used on pre-'84 blocks.

L5wolvesf

FWIW, the timing covers are repairable. I've had several welded where the t/c ate through the cover - cost all of $25 last time around 2011. I used to have a semi "jig" to bolt the t/c to prevent warping. Cover are fairly plentiful at parts yards.

Also, a pic is worth 1k words.

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

thanks, unfortunately it has gone Toyota Heaven

Hope you get the timing cover issue worked out

JaredL

So I got the new timing cover from LCE and had it milled. I noticed it is different from the original one from LCE in that the original had studs for 3 of the water pump bolts whereas the new one has just bolts. I ordered the bolt kit from LCE just to be on the safe side. The timing cover went on well and I remembered to apply a thin amount of fipg to the exposed head gasket. However, when I went to bolt the oil pump on, I got to the lower DS oil pump bolt and it caused the oil pump to crack--this at only 7 ft lbs of torque.

So, once again, I am waiting to hear from LCE and hopefully get a replacement. I have this fear I am going to get everything together and it is either going to leak like a sieve, not start at all, or both.

JARED

gsp4life

A part cracked again?

​​​​​​I suspect 1 of 3 things is happening: you're cursed, got a batch of defective parts or something's going on with the installation technique.

You sound like you know how to put things together well since you didn't have much trouble removing the old cover and installing the new one. Just to cover all bases, I'm wondering if you had all 5 of the oil pump bolts in hand-tight or so before you began to torque down the one that caused the crack.

Sorry to hear you're still stuck in assembly pergatory. Not fun when all you want to hear is a running engine. Let us know what LCE says about it.

JaredL

Thanks for the consolation. I've only installed an oil pump on my 93 pickup so I am definitely a newbie when it comes to this stuff but I am following directions to a T. I removed the oil pump from the last timing cover meticulously so as to not move the gears and put it back in the same way for the new timing cover after I placed on the new seal. I'm pretty sure it only goes on one way and it mated up to the block without issue. I followed the install directions from LCE using their bolts, finger tightened, and then tightened in a cross pattern in order to evenly distribute torque. Maybe I shouldn't use the torque wrench and just tighten with open-end wrenches.

Yeah, pretty bummed and getting tired of this project.

coryc85

Jared - if your torque wrench is like mine, 7ft lbs is pretty low and hard to really detect the click. I'd probably skip the torque wrench on bolts which have small torque settings unless you have a very small, sensitive wrench.

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

Make sure you have a good torque wrench for the small stuff. Bigger stuff, 1/2", i have zero problems with an off the shelf HF or auto zone type wrench. But for the small stuff, timing cover stuff, i would recommend either a good beam style wrench, 1/4 or 3/8 and they are a lot cheaper, or taking the average cheap small torque wrench to a person you know has a good/recently calibrated torque wrench and making a comparison. Take 3-4 different bolts torqued to different settings by his wrench. Then set yours to the same setting and see if it matches. Then reverse the process and you torque them down and see if his matches. I personally have all HF torque wrenchs for my click type and 2 old school beam style wrenches in 1/2 & 3/8. I always compare mine to the beam ones before i do anything delicate. For my 1/4 drive i go to a buddies shop and conpare to his $$$ ones he has calibrated regularly for insurance reasons.

I actually hope you get this sorted easily. I understand how frustrating this can be. I recently went through it. Rebuilt the motor in my 85 only to create a problem with the electrical supply to the fuel injectors. See it through you will love it when its done.
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They are never done...

gsp4life

Good point. My nephew swears by his cheap 1/2" click-type torque wrench for everything and I can't talk any sense into him about it. I've got a fairly nice set of beam-type from 1/2", 3/8" down to a tiny 1/4" and really think it's the way to go. If the needle points to zero, there's almost no way it's going to give a false reading.

JaredL

Thanks everyone. Yes, my new toque wrench is a click style 3/8 from Harbor Freight. I did talk to LCE today and they are perplexed and apologetic about the issues as they said I am doing everything right--including using a torque wrench. They sent me a new oil pump. Hopefully there won't be any more issues.

Here something odd I wanted to run by you. When I removed the water pump from the first timing cover (I just had it filled up with antifreeze for about a day), I noticed the impeller fins on the pump had surface rust on them. Despite getting this from LCE and LCE stating they use Toyota or better quality parts, the water pump had NPW (OEM Nissan) instead of Toyota Aisin stamped on it. I looked at my old Toyota Aisin water pump and there was no rust on it despite being in the 4Runner for at least 6 months. Should I be concerned about the NPW water pump and just install my slightly used Toyota/Aisin water pump?


Thanks,
JARED

gsp4life

Keep the NPW. The light surface rust on the fins shouldn't ​​​​​cause any problems. 22reperformance (Putney's) believes the bearing is higher quality and longer-lasting than the newer US-made aisin pumps. I don't work for them or anything, but I trust their opinion a lot.