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Aloha
So, I was going down the Waipio Valley Rd the other day when I noticed a noise not unlike a slow jackhammer. It happened only when I made a sharp turns on the way down and on the very steepest parts of the road on the way up (&especially turning). For those that don't know, it's a 30° (mostly) paved road with some parts up to 39°..one of the steepest roads in America! This was the second time I took my rig down there but the first time it started making this noise. It was a constant noise, not dependent on speed. I only drove it in 4WD low and everything was normal and smooth on the way home on 2WD.
I checked the transfer case oil and it was still new as I usually don't 4WD but the front diff oil was nice and goopy so I replaced it today. My friend who was sitting in the bed said it sounded like it came from under him. My guess is that it's the CV joints but maybe the U joints? it was scary AF as the road is super steep and the gnarlier parts are only one lane
Any ideas?
If you were operating on a paved surface and making sharp turns, you were definitely stressing the drive train, and you could have a failure somewhere. Or you could have just been hearing the normal drive train windup and letting go.
I'd jack up the vehicle and turn all of the wheels and drive shafts and listen carefully for abnormal sounds.
Thanks for the reply RJR
Yes I was operating on a paved surface..but that's how. You gotta put it in 4low so you don't wear out your brakes on the way down!
I put it in 4wd around my (unpaved) land today and she was running fine/normal..no sounds. It might be hard to find a place to replicate that steepness so I can comfortably see where that sound is coming from. When you said to jack up the vehicle, do you mean jack up so all 4 tires are in the air and run it in 4wd? I can try that. Also, what is the drive train windup and letting go?
Oh, I fully understand why you needed to be in 4 low on that grade. Sorry if I made it seem like you goofed up.
However, any time you go around a curve, the front wheels have to travel further than the rear wheels. Since you have no center differential, that means the tires have to slip to account for the difference in distance traveled. On hi traction surfaces like pavement, what happens is that the drive train gets more and more stressed, until one or more of the tires breaks loose and chirps, releasing the tension for a bit, until the whole cycle repeats. On low traction surfaces like dirt or gravel, the wheels just continuously slip in small increments throughout the turn and you don't really notice it.
Yes, I meant jack up all 4 wheels with the engine off. Put the transmission in neutral and the tcase in 4wd, and turn the wheels by hand to listen for problems. Might have to have a buddy hold the opposite wheel so the drive shafts turn.
Chances are all is OK. The drive train is pretty tough, and while it might complain under such treatment, it usually doesn't break anything. You may have just been hearing the tires alternatingly slipping and grabbing on the pavement.
Well that's a relief.
I still want to check out the drivelines by spinning the wheels like you specified. It may just have been the tires chirping but it was happening going straight on the steepest parts, so that had me spooked a little. The first time I went down this road all was fine..the only thing that was different this time is that I got rid of the lift blocks and replaced the rear leafs. I wonder if that had anything to do with it.
You could duplicate the load on the drivetrain by riding the brake or the parking brake, just don't do it too long. if you have manual hubs you could unlock them and see if it still makes the noise, or pull the front driveshaft with auto hubs, this could help narrow it down. If it is the drive train winding and you have manual hubs just leave them unlocked and there will be no windup.
*UPDATE*
I think that sound was just a ticking time bomb because I think the rear end just took a dump on me
I was off-roading on 2wd when I came to this bump..I couldn't get over it so I locked the hubs and put it on 4low
but when I gassed it, the wheels just spun so I blamed it on my balding tires (Seriously though, this "bump" was
so minor, any hardcore wheeler would've laughed) I parked then walked to the spot
I wanted to check out. Upon returning, I put her in reverse and I remember a kind of loud clunk then went on my
merry way on 4wd. It wasn't until I unlocked the hubs and put her back on 2wd that I knew something was up
in a very bad way.. only grinding sounds and no forward movement.
Lucky for 4wd as I was able to limp the 15 miles home. The rear axle (including 3rd member)was a Craigslist special
from about 25K miles ago, so maybe it was just time.
Also, I don't think it was drivetrain wrap-up as the exact same sound happened again a couple weeks ago NOT in 4wd but
on a really steep driveway with a cast iron tub in the bed.
Tomorrow, imma check her out, starting with the axles..but first I will probs drink my way to sleep.
My first diagnosis is that I grenaded the pinion or ring gear or both..I haven't gotten to check it out but my mechanic friend
told me that since the driveline still worked it wasn't my tranny (phew) and it was probs the aforementioned components of
the rear diff. He sez it was probs just some knocked out teeth.
The Fix:
I have my old 3rd member from the original axle that had the bearings go out (1000 mile road trip on zero gear oil will do that)
so I'm just going to replace those and pop it back into the rear axle. From the research on this site, hopefully the messed up
bearings didn't eat into the pinion too much and it won't spin and fail. I was just going to get the bearings and seal from the internet
and have a local transmission shop put it together for me as I've read that it's a P.I.T.A to take the bearings out (though I do
have access to a press).
Opinions? I will dig into her on Sunday and try and see what exactly happened..
Ordered bearings, seals, spacers and pinion nut from the internets as I knew I would for sure replace those.
Then I took the 3rd from the original axle (the one that had the bearing go out) and found this:
What could have caused that wear? the pinion & ring looked alright..
I looked on the FSM and I couldn't figure out what that carrier thing is called. Do I need to get a new one?
upon closer "messing with it", I've concluded that the pinion did that..might be time for re-gear? 4.56 or 4.88's? I run 31's now and might run 33's in a few years
upon closer "messing with it", I've concluded that the pinion did that..might be time for re-gear? 4.56 or 4.88's? I run 31's now and might run 33's in a few years
Looks to me like contact from the pinion, probably when you were in reverse. The pinion gets pulled into the housing in reverse. If the marks on the carrier housing aren't too deep, you can probably reuse it. Ultimate cause was probably a failed crush sleeve allowing the pinion to go too deep.
Looks to me like contact from the pinion, probably when you were in reverse. The pinion gets pulled into the housing in reverse. If the marks on the carrier housing aren't too deep, you can probably reuse it. Ultimate cause was probably a failed crush sleeve allowing the pinion to go too deep.
The end of the pinion did this, of course, but come on RJR, you should know better than this:::
'Failure' of the crush sleeve CANNOT permit the pinion to come closer to the diff carrier.
Only failure of the outer pinion bearing, or loosening of the pinion nut can do this.
The end of the pinion did this, of course, but come on RJR, you should know better than this:::
'Failure' of the crush sleeve CANNOT permit the pinion to come closer to the diff carrier.
Only failure of the outer pinion bearing, or loosening of the pinion nut can do this.
You are of course right, millball. I wrote that without thinking it through clearly. It would be interesting to look at the staking on the pinion nut. Do you have any idea of how much clearance there normally is between the end of the pinion and the carrier? Wondering how much it would have to creep back to contact the carrier. Looks like it got into the carrier a good .050" or so, maybe more.
It would be interesting to look at the staking on the pinion nut. Do you have any idea of how much clearance there normally is between the end of the pinion and the carrier? Wondering how much it would have to creep back to contact the carrier. Looks like it got into the carrier a good .050" or so, maybe more.
Happens that I have a 4cyl 4.10 chunk on my bench right now. It's hard to get calipers in there, but I would say that normal clearance between the carrier and pinion is about 3 to 5mm.
the pinion nut:
it looks ok enough to me, but I'm no expert..there is about 1/4" play that I can notice from the flange.
I bought the rig in Tacoma WA knowing zero about Yota's except that the 22R is the stuff of legends, then decided to road trip
through Yellowstone Park all the way to Laramie WY (I know) slinging gear oil all over. I'm sorry 'Merica! When I got to Laramie,
it started making a grinding noise first only on third gear, then eventually all. I learned about how diff fluid is mucho important (I know)..
but I still had to get to Oakland to ship her to HI. It was a white knuckle drive all the way to the coast.
anyways, the lack of oil for 1000+ miles had something to do with it.
But what you guys think about the carrier? I'm thinking it's ok to re-use but can I Frankenstein that piece from the
3rd currently in the truck? (I'd rather not)
BTW I ordered the 4:56!
11-19-2017, 11:52 PM
