Charles4x4

Thr 4Runner has always started fine. I just pulled it out of the garage to blow out some leaves and when I went to pull it back in it wouldn’t start. The details:

1) Lately I noticed the battery seemed to be getting weaker and I had to jump the 4Runner off a few times - the battery was installed by the PO and didn’t even have a brand name on it so a few days ago I swapped it for a new one. Truck started fine for 2 Days afterward.

2) About a month ago I put a new alternator on as the other one looked ancient and I thought it must have died as my Battery Indicator light came on a few times. Hasn’t come on since the new alternator was installed.

3) I put a MM on the battery when I first tried to jump it off with jumper cables and it read negative -14v. I let it go a few mins and the lights came back on and MM read a correct +14.2v. I tried to start it but no luck.

4) I removed the jumper cables and the battery immediately went to +13.05v and slowly declined by 0.01v every 10 seconds or so. Seems to have stabilized around 12.5v which seems normal. There is no voltage loss between the battery terminals and the contacts, so it isn’t corroded contacts.

5) If I let it sit for a bit, the lights come back. When I try to start it, the starter gives one click then nothing. I try again and no click at all.

6) All fuses seem fine in engine compartment and drivers kick panel.

7) Unlike my other ‘87, The ignition will allow you to pull the key out before the truck is fully off - ie before you press the button and turn one last time counter clockwise. Not sure if this is a problem or not, but maybe the ignition is getting tired.

Any ideas?

i think the battery is fine. I think the alternator is fine but I did install it a little differently this time than others putting the electrical wire connection between the two brass alternator nuts instead of direct with only one but above it - surely this isn’t what is wrong right?

Only other ideas is something is robbing power, electrical system has a glitch, starter is going bad, or ignition is going bad since you can pull the key out without it being fully “off”?

Come to think of it, I had my wife pull it out of the garage for me and she turned it off and pulled the key out without actually pressing the button and turning it one last slot to fully “off” - maybe it’s somehow stuck in accessory mode even though I put the key back in and turned it fully off just afterward. But this wouldn’t prevent it from starting with jumper cables on it after 1 click from the starter thought right?

Thoughts?

Charles4x4

I read about jumping the starter by connecting the starter terminal directly to the Positive end of the battery. Haven’t done this yet as the terminal and wiring looks fine to the starter. Starter looks old though.

Charles4x4

The more I analyze and read, the more I think it’s a bad starter. Any opposing ideas?

Starter looks ancient, so I went ahead and ordered a remanfactured one with good reviews from Amazon - can easily send back if tests prove something else is at fault.

I also tested the ground with the key on and it was fine (checked to make sure no voltage from negative battery terminal to frame).

RAD4Runner

Toyota components are bullet-proof. Issues are caused by WRONG wiring, bad connection, poor maintenance, poor assembly.

You did not say if you inspected, cleaned, tightened your connections between battery, fuse block, starter solenoid, starter motor. All should have bare, shiny metal tightly contacting bare, shiny metal. Check ALL connections, not just the cliched "check grounds"

Did you have your battery load-tested? A quick home-test would be to probe battery connector. You should have 12V or more. Turn on headlights to high, you should still have close to 12V. Less than 10V with headlights on means weak battery.

If battery is good:
Check if starter solenoid and starter motor are working well:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post52367443

If above works well this:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post52297396

Charles4x4

Thanks RAD. Just replaced the starter and still won’t start. Answers:

All connections are good. Battery is new. Terminals are new with no corrosion. Starter is new.

Per MM, i’ve Got 12.62v at battery prongs, the same at battery terminals, and the same at the starter connector. If I turn on High Beams, battery drops to 12.5v, so it’s good (and literally brand new).

Starter is now brand new, so I know it works fine.

Last link is for Manual Tranny only - mine is Auto.

Help?

Charles4x4

Wonder if it is the ignition switch. If so, i’ve never swapped one - is it pretty easy?

And how could I test to make sure the ground to the starter is fine? The connector looked fine when I plugged it into the new starter this morning. But I haven’t truly tested it...

Quick Cal

I've been dealing with electrical gremlins on my 87. I swapped out the clutch master and slave the other day. I thought I needed to adjust the clutch start switch, so I did. Drove it a couple of days then all of the sudden it wouldn't start. Wouldn't do anything. I thought it was my clutch switch adjustment. But then all the sudden I could tell that it was indeed in the ignition switch.

scope103

Did you do the starter test recommended by Rad4Runner? You apply 12v to the solenoid connection, and if the starter spins you've tested the battery, the solenoid, the ground, the starter ... (which new starter you purchased, probably wasn't needed).

If that works (with a new starter it almost certainly will) check for 12v on the solenoid LEAD with the key turned to start. (You might even have to use a test light instead of the usually much better multimeter. If you have a crappy ignition switch, it might close a high-resistance link that will put voltage on the wire, but once the solenoid draws current it will drop to nothing.) If you don't have 12v on that wire, you probably have a bad ignition switch. You could have a bad PN (Park-Neutral) switch; if that opens it stops the 12v to the solenoid wire (you can try to test that by wiggling the shifter when it won't start, but a bad switch is a bad switch and they don't often cooperate.)

Before you run out to buy a new ignition switch or PN switch, read through Rad4Runner's second link about the lack of starter relay on earlier 4Runners. You'll still need the replacement switch, and the relay he suggests costs almost nothing.

Charles4x4

Have you swapped yours yet? If so, how easy is it? And did you pick yours up at an Auto partsnplace or somewhere else? I haven’t ever done one, but assume it’s a pretty easy job.

Charles4x4

Thanks for the intel. I now know the new starter works - here’s how:
- After not starting, I turned the key on/off, on/off, etc about 10 Times and it finally started and ran great.
- I then turned it off to eat dinner. When I went back out to take the family for a ride around the neighborhood (I’m almost done with my partial restoration and they wanted to see/feel all the upgrades), it of course wouldn’t start
- I then wiggled the ignition and nothing. I then put it in N and back to P and it clicked rapidly about 10x. I turned it off, then back in and it fired up.

So I’m betting it’s eother the Itnition or PN switch exactly like you guessed above.

Whoch one one should I start with first?

Note I put in new bushings in the Automatic Shifter (it was wobbly) - wonder if that might have done something to the PN switch - time to start reading about it.

if there are any threads on the ignition or PN switch, let me know.

Quick Cal

No. I haven't swapped it. It started working again. But I'm not driving the truck because of the carb problems I'm having.

Charles4x4

I just read that if i’m getting a click at all, it’s likely not the neutral safety switch. I know my battery voltage seems fine, but I may swap it tomorrow just in case. I read a few threads about NSS and if it’s clicking (which mine is), swapping to another battery seems to fix it.

Battery is only 1-week old, but it was dated June and it’s now almost December so maybe it sat on the shelf too long before I bought it. I think i’ll try battery, then ignition switch. If neither, i’ll look at the NSS.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Test some stuff, was cheaper and easier than swapping parts

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

some men, you just can't teach. so, you get what we had here last night, which is hey way he wants it.

RAD4Runner

Good idea to check/inspect/clean (not replace) your NSS because it is in a very inhospitable environment, but long story short...
Your cranking system:




Cranking system on Cory85's, on Terry's, On WallyToo's, on Griswald's, on MrMagoo's, on Kingjerd's, on Phantez's, on mine, etc.

Charles4x4

Have been testing everything I can put my hands on... Battery, Grounds, Fuses, Starter, etc. Not very familiar with Ignition and NSS - which is why I am asking on here. Thanks for the funny graphic though!

And swapping the battery is free - it's got a 3-yr warranty that just started.

Charles4x4

Thanks, I've seen your schematics on this before when reading older posts - very helpful. Looks like the Starter Relay is another potential candidate. I'll start with swapping the battery since it's free and easy. Then I'll begin testing the ignition, clean the NSS (unlikely since it's clicking), and Starter Relay. Stay tuned.

scope103

NSS is Neutral-Start Switch (my EWD calls it the Clutch/Start switch), which performs (roughly) the same function as the P-N switch does in an automatic. (tries to keep you from cranking the starter while in gear)

Those switches interrupt current to the starter (and cold start injection timer), but not the COR on an automatic. When you turn the key to start, it usually closes the COR. You can't hear that relay click over the sound of the starter, but if the starter doesn't turn, you can hear a click under the glove box.

Keep in mind that I'm looking at an EWD for a '94. Once you back up a few years (to you, and Rad4runner), things change subtly, so you may need to do some original research with your multimeter.

Charles4x4

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, mine's an auto, so it woudl be the P-N switch for me. Is it located just below the shifter or closer to the starter on the pass side?

I need to find it, clean it, and test it some more if the battery swap doesn't do the trick. I still think the ignition switch is the more likely issue at this point though - I'll use a MM to test it later today.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Find it ,test it, and then maybe clean it maybe adjust it. It's under the passenger seat more or less and easy to find.