Robb235

Believe it or not, I was actually able to get quite a bit of force into that syringe (what can I say... I work out :-P ). For the camera, the trick was keeping the bottle steady enough so that the you guys could see what was happening. When I exerted max force onto the syringe, the flow characteristics didn't change, it just shot the narrow streams further. Unfortunately, when I put as much force as I could into the syringe, I started shaking the bottle. I bet if I took the injector out of the PowerAde bottle, I could shoot the Techron several feet or more. With the injector in the manifold, it doesn't have several feet of travel distance for the fuel to atomize.

Regardless of how scientific or unscientific this was, I think it illustrated the point. Better injectors with better spray/misting characteristics are out there. How much real world benefit is there? Who knows. Apparently the Jeep guys think there's some. And apparently some of the 3vz-fe guys on this board too are convinced these injectors are worth it.

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Texas_Ace

Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK2L...tailpage#t=814

As you can see, the pressure is directly proportional to the atomization. The injector in that test is also from the same era/tech as the stockers from our trucks. He also talks a little about how the fuel being sprayed directly onto the back on the valve is the ideal setup for cars from this era.

Regardless, the injectors in this tread have better atomization. That was never up for debate.

Flame Thrower

Vital22RE gets a set.

LoneStarMac gets a set.

aowRS

Interesting discussion. I've always wondered how long my injectors will function correctly. Bought the truck new and now have 321,000 miles. The injectors have never been touched, other than dumping a bottle of Techron in a few times a year.

The engine starts, runs, and shuts off like it did in 2001.



Andreas

dntsdad

I guess my post got deleted.

I didn't use foul language and was only asking that a vendor of the site not be bashed and bantered in an unfriendly and unsubstantiated manner.

To much to ask I guess?

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

a modified version of your post has been restored. It was the quote that led it to be removed from public view.

Robb235

Got my injectors in last night. I've got drill this weekend, so I won't be able to play around with them until sometime next week. I'll post a video of the spray pattern, similar to how I did with the 315cc injectors.

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Robb235

Injector spray pattern for Flame Thrower injectors. Not sure if you can see a whole lot, but it definitely atomized the Techron into a much finer mist. Looking forward to installing these.


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vital22re

iTrader: (2)

so I've been getting about 120 miles average on 1/2 tank of gas. 60% highway driving. Test vehicle is a 97 limited 4runner. Most people I talk to are 110-160 miles on half a tank. I will try to get these denso's in this weekend. The current injectors were tested and cleaned by Jim at injector lab in washington. So I know they have good spray/work well.

BigBluePile

iTrader: (3)

Interesting.

Robb235

My truck does not like these injectors. It runs very rough at idle, and smooths out only when I'm on the gas. I've got multiple misfire codes. I'm pulling these injectors back out and putting the stock ones back in. What a waste to my afternoon.

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ThorInc

Thanks for the update and sorry to hear.

mtnkid85

Hey gang,

Thought I would join in on this thread. Flamethrower sent me a set of injectors to try in my 99 3.4l with 200k miles. I was having a hard start issue that I traced back to a few injectors leaking fuel down into the cylinders. So I contacted Flamethrower and had him send me a set.

Ive now run several tanks of fuel and ~700miles on them.
They cleared up the hard start issue, possibly smoothed out the idle and power of the engine, no MPG change.

So just when I was thinking all was well, the truck threw the po300 and po303 codes. Its thrown the po300 twice and the 303 once. Both times it was at a higher elevation letting the truck idle and warm up on a cold morning.
All other times the truck runs wonderfully, I still have not been able to notice the truck misfiring, running rough at any RPM or anything else; In fact I was surprised to see those codes since the truck has been running so nice.

So obviously I am wondering why we are getting these misfire codes and what the cause of the problem is.
Really I am wondering if its something the trucks ECU is seeing that's causing it to freak out?
Does anyone have an AFR gauge that is running these injectors? Im wondering if these injectors are adding too much fuel at idle or something?

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

So, when I first installed these the idle was low and it sounded like a vacuum leak. After a couple restarts the computer adjusted the IAC valve. However the idle seems a little on the stumbly side. Keep in mind people, these new injectors do not use the vacuum assist like oem. So If the IAC valve does not adjust to compensate for the "vacuum leak", I could see people having miss fires. Having said that, If i drive like a grandpa I've been able to hit 18-19mpg. I'm going to reinstall the factory injectors and recompare as I haven't owned this 97 4runner limited very long. There is no seat in the pants difference, there is not a giant just gained 4 mpg on my average. The idea of a better spray is appealing, but There isn't that big of a difference so far. The computer will always do its job to maintain the factory afr's in closed loop. Unless you have a way to "tune" the ecu, there is no point in upgrades for power.

slacker

iTrader: (1)

i'll try em ... if you want to send me a set ?


PM sent





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SacRunner

I've been running these for about a month now (1,700 miles) and can report back that these work just as well as a freshly (and professionally) cleaned set of factory 5VZ injectors.

During the installation I disconnected the battery for roughly 90 minutes, so I was sure the ECU was able to reset itself and would "re-learn" the fuel mapping. It fired up after cranking a few times, allowing the fuel system to re-prime. The only "odd" thing I noticed was the LOUD clicking from these injectors; I don't know if they've quieted or I've just gotten used to it, but it doesn't seem to be an issue any more. I did not experience any odd idle issues (well aside from a missed IAC vacuum line that I discovered a few days later).

In terms of gas milage, there has been no change; I got roughly 200 miles per tank (I have the small 15 gallon tank) with the factory injectors, and I still get roughly 200 miles per tank with these "upgrade" injectors.

In terms of performance, there's no real overall difference. The only difference is at low speed (under 10mph), in 2nd gear, attempting to climb the hill into my driveway at about 500 rpm (yes, I know I should down-shift to 1st...) the engine doesn't lug down and struggle any more; in other words, it struggles a little better a exceptionally low speed. Again, other than that one low speed struggle improvement, I have not seen any sort of improvement to speak of. I have to assume this slightly better low speed performance is to to the better atomization of these injectors.

Now it should be worth noting, that I had sent the factory injectors to WhitchHunter for a professional cleaning about 20,000 miles ago while working on my 3.4 swap. I'm sure that a set of dirty 100,000-250,000+ mile injectors will see a much better results than I have seen, but those same results may come by simply cleaning the existing injectors (and putting up with the week of down-time while the injectors are being cleaned).

Overall, I wouldn't consider these "upgrade injectors" but would consider them a viable alternative to the stock style 5VZ injectors. Similarly, it may make more sense to buy a set of these injectors for $150 (I'm guessing on price based on some other injectors) and be able to swap the injectors in an afternoon, rather than spending the $130 and waiting a week for the stock injectors to be cleaned.

Truck: 1991 4Runner, 3.4 swap from a 1997 4Runner M/T 4x4; 33x12.5, 4.56, stock 3.0 R150F and transfer case.

FlameThrower, thanks for providing these to people, allowing me an opportunity to evaluate, and for answering all of my odd questions.

SacRunner

Now some pictures:


Side by side, stock 5VZ on the right, Flame Thrower on the left


Injector side, stock 5VZ on the left this time, Flame Thrower on the right (small holes for better atomization)


Installed, showing the wiring harness adapter.


Installed in the intake manifold.


Another installed picture.

slacker

iTrader: (1)

the guy never even answered my PM .....


.

mtnkid85

Well this thread kinda petered off, but these injectors are still on my mind. Flame thrower originally sent me a set and I was getting some rich codes so I pulled them out and swapped a set of stock injectors back in. But I was curious to see if a guy could see a difference with these on a AFR gauge while in open loop operation.

Fast forward and I have since installed a TRD supercharger along with an aem AFR gauge. So Ill run it for a while with my factory injectors to get a baseline and then Im going to throw these Denso injectors back in and see If I can see any difference in the AFRs.

Robb235

Back to the top.

So my truck didn't like the first set of Flamethrower injectors. I sent them back and he refunded my money. Then he randomly sent me another set. I was disgusted with how the first set ran that I never bothered to install the second set.

Fast forward to last weekend. I was cleaning my Idle Air Control Valve. Since I was already taking off the throttle body, I decided I'd pull the plenum off and try the second set of Flamethrower injectors.

The results? This second set is even worse than the first. The engine doesn't even run. I'll crank it forever, and the best it'll do is stumble for a few seconds on its own and then die. What a joke.