Mild SAS questions...possible?
 

OK guys....got some questions for you smart suspension people. My 4runner is slowly but surely becoming more capable. I want to perform a solid axle swap sometime this summer, but I have a few questions. According to yotaman and his buildup, he regretted spending all his time and money keeping up his stock ifs, and recommended saving the money for a swap (which I totally agree with). Im an intermediate wheeler, learning fab techniques in a college welding class, and want to start stepping it up on the trail, but also want road manners, since I drive to and from college quite a bit on the interstate.
questions: can I use stock front toyota leaf springs on my 93 runner to gain only a small amount of front lift on the SAS?

If so, can I still use high steer?

would stock leafs give any lift at all? ( i know the hangers add and inch as well as the shackles)


the reasons for keeping it lower....1) wont have to spend a whole lot of $$$ on the rear to level it (already has 2.5 inches from All Pro spacers)
2) better highway handling and mileage
3) want to turn this rig into more of an expedition type vehicle but with the added strength and less parts of a SFA

any help, opinions, (helpful) criticisms, or whatever is greatly appreciated.
ask any questions you need too, if I forgot anything...
thanks guys...Alex

By definition, stock front springs would give 0" lift, as that is what defines stock lift. You might see an inch or two with the combination of a dropped front spring hanger and a longer than stock spring shackle. The general consensus is that about 4" of lift is needed to clear the steering components, high- or low-steer. Only way that would not be needed would be if you went to stock push-pull steering.

The lowest you can go with an SAS with highsteer is about 4 inches. Even with 4" you need to shorten your pitman arm so it wont hit the tie rod. I have 3" All Pro leafs with shackls that adds another inch. With my current setup I get about 10 inches of travel, most of it being downtravel. I had to use the stock '85 bumpstops and 10" Bilstien 5150's to maximise uptravel. For the rear I'm using 4" superlift springs with 4" overstock ES9000 shocks.

I'm not sure where you can find a stock steering setup that works with the IFS steering box, but I'm sure theres one out there, if not you can allways fab one up. With stock '85 steering and leafs I think youll be able to go lower but youll only get about 2" max uptravel before hitting the frame.
Hope this helps.
Josh

3" All Pro springs + 1" shackle, 10" 5150 Bilsteins, stock '85 bumpstops
http://sdairsoft.tripod.com/pull2.jpg

Im in the same boat im about to do the sas and the only thing im worried about is teh stability of the truck after I throw the 4" marlins at 4 corners.

My truck is nowhere near stock stability without front or rear swaybars but extended rear swaybar links from procomp will hopeflully fix that. It's still streetable even on mountain roads, you just have to get used to the roll. I'm also looking at AirLift 1000 in-spring-airbags as an option for street stablility.

ok then, with 3 inch springs, are you a whole lot higher up than with BJ spaced , t-bar cranked IFS? And can you keep the stock sway bar, but add longer links (which is what I think you were saying, but not sure...)? Also, how much more will the rear have to come up (from 2.5 inches taller to.....) to match the 3" front. I want as little lift as possible, for expedition type wheeling and vehicle loading, but the strength of the hysteer and stuff.....thanks a ton guys....Alex

Why dont you, for now, just run spacers up front, crank the bars a little, springs and spacers in the rear and call it a day? The best road manners would be IFS. SAS would be a little harsher but many people here drive daily on their SAS. What I'am trying to say is do it right the first time or don't do it at all. If I were in your shoes, I would go with the cheap IFS lift I mentioned and they save for the whole SAS swap with high steer and lifted springs and call it a day. Do you really want to go back and put springs in again? That is more work down the road. Besides you said your taking a welding class, right? Why not make your own rear spacers and ball joint spacers?

James

OK, again, I dont want to really raise this rig that much , now, or later. I want a lower riding rig with the solid axle for dependability, strength, articulation, and fewer parts on a expedition type vehicle. Second, I already DO have spacers for the rear, and third, I dont see how I can weld up some aluminum ball joint spacers in my welding class. I do want to do the SAS correctly, just not to "rock crawling" specs.


So here's one more question ( I know there's been a lot). Im pretty sure Ive read somewhere on here that the non imported runners and trucks (2nd gen) still have solid axles under them in Asia and stuff. Hence not needing to reinforce the frame when performing the SAS on the 2nd gens. Could I not order the parts (steering) from Toyota that they use over there on the solid axle equipped rigs? If so, would this be up to the task of 33's? Thanks for all ya'lls help! Alex

I'm thinking the steering components would be different with the foriegn right hand drive yotas.

You can fit 33x10.5 with BJ spacers and your rear coil spacers. Thats MarcP's setup. (but he has 1.5" rear downey coils)

If you are looking for something that is stable, I would look at doing a SUA SAS like Steve (I think) did. He fits 35s and it looks really good and isn't to tall. I think it's about the smallest amount you can safely go with when doing a a SAS. Do a search and he did a good write up on his swap.

Define small amount of lift... 3" is about minimum. On the pre IFS trucks, you can get away with 2" and still run hi-steer, assuming you mount the dragling on top of the pitman arm.

There is no need to shorten a pitman arm w/ any aftermarket 4" lift spring that moves the axle forward up to 1.25-1.5". Any more and the pitman arm will contact the draglink. But moving the box forward isn't overly difficult.

Personally, I'd run FRORF's crossmember (mounted in the stock location) and schackles with All Pro's stock length 3" springs. Or, flip the crossmember around and run Marlin's 1" longer springs.

My current setup is FRORF's crossmember mounted 1.25" forward w/ old allpro 4" springs (nice and sagged) and AP rear shackles. It's still taller than I want, and I'm likely going to search for a way to lower it 1-2". For reference, the AP 3" springs that I have gave me 2" of lift under my 4.3 equipped xcab. On my 4Runner, they give over 4" of lift. They are not broken in yet, but likely will not make it to the truck. If I stay with leafs, I'll likely try Marlin's 3" springs. Otherwise, I'm waiting until ORS is ready to start selling their 3-link kit and dial it in at 3-4" total lift.

In the rear, I have about 3-4" total. Old AP 5" springs with frenched hangers. I'm likely going to replace these w/ Chebby's after I mount up the rear tire carrier...

DUH!!! I didnt even think of that. I could probably do that and get away with the hysteer right? It wouldnt hit the springs, and if I mounted the drag link to the top of the pitman (maybey?), it wouldnt be a prob? Good call Runner...Thanks

"define small amount of lift"

About 3" taller that stock at the most up front.

Thanks guys...you've been a big help....anything else? Just let me know.

Alex

ok guys, (99 Runner)
I searched for that SUA SAS and couldnt find anything on it....you dont know the guy for sure who did it do you? Or the link to it? Sorry about this....Thanks tho...Alex

think i found it....is it steve schaefer??

Front Range hanger/shackles.

Custom spec'd Alcan to be longer and move the axle 1.5" forward.

This is 5" of lift. Or, for better reference 21" rim to fender.

You could be lower, but every inch of travel will be extension.

This truck is about 2:1 droop to compression, will likely run 37's with easy and is stupid low.

http://pics.montypics.com/flygtenste...2_dsc00764.jpg

ya too much for what I want

why does everyone say Front Range hangers?

Most aftermarket spring hangers drop the front 1.5". Brian's only drops it .5 inches, I believe, so it doesn't build as much lift into the hanger.

That said, I honestly don't think you'll gain anything by doing an SUA swap. The issue is not the location of the springs (over/under) but the distance from the tie-rod/draglink to the frame/oil pan. SUA/SOA - that distance will be the same for the given amount of lift.

I have a friend running Brian's front hanger, 3" downy springs and Marlin's high steer - no problems. He does, admittedly, have a drivetrain lift...

Yeah, Ill bet the drivetrain lift helps out with that. I actually talked to Brian and he said the steering issue might be taken care of with a crossover that has the tie rod in the stock location (below the spring)? And if there is an issue with the drag link hitting the oil pan, what about an S bend or something like that?

I know this is a lot of freakin questions, and seems like too much work to you guys who just lift em and crawl, but Im lookin for a different use out of the suspension and want to try to make this work. I know it may not make sense to a lot of you, but I really want to look into it...and everything you guys are telling me and sharing with me is helping a ton. So, I know it may not be the most practical idea, but instead of telling me that I shouldnt do it, please give me any help you can so that I can learn TO DO it. Even if it is "this wont work, you'll have to do this," thats ok...that helps. I appreciate all you guys chipping in though....Alex

6lug,

I was looking to do something similar on basically the same truck. Thought about the same things, problem was that this is my daily driver and I couldn't have it in the garage while I tried to make things work with a low lift, which at best case would take a few weeks+ and wind up costing more for custom stuff.

I Wound up going mostly marlin using 3" lift springs to get about 4.5" of lift, more than you are looking for but OK for me.

Not sure I understand your rush to SAS, especially since none of your axles are locked? Are you breaking IFS parts? I did it because my bracket lift was so tweeked I was eating tires. If my IFS brackets weren't tweeked I probably would have went the long travel IFS route or more seriously considered it. You still break CV's but they are easy and cheap to replace.