vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

Thought yall might like to see what I've been working on for the last month.

My well used 95 4runner that I swapped a 3.4 and a340f auto trans into last year. It sees grocery duty, trail duty, towing duty, and hopefully soon some track duty



My 3.4 has 170k miles roughly and runs great. I decided on a reliable Holset turbo and waited for the right deal. Found a rebuilt Holset hx35 12cm from a Honda forum thanks to my buddy "ultimase". I paid $315 shipped from TX.

The rest of the stuff pretty much came from Ebay or the local hardware store.

Also mine's in a 2nd gen so my whole setup is opposite side of most.





Tapping the oil line


10an return line with 90* fitting into oil cap.


Welded up some supports to hold this heavy Holset


Custom bracket to bolt to turbo


My exhaust guy welding up my junk, seems my HF 90amp flux core isn't up to the task


Hanging it


Side view clearance shot


Progress


3" pipe cut short, going to need run a muffler or resonator it's too loud with no cat.

Charge pipe is 1.5" ID PVC sch 40 with glued on fittings


Runs along top of frame (I have 1.5" BL) and up into DS fender


Hooked up


Wastegate finally installed.


Charge pipe, nevermind my temporary boost gauge line.

250000_yota

Looks good! Any ideas on power numbers? How does that Holset spool for you?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Interesting project .

Is the cone filter just a short term fix to get it running??

Then you don`t really get much of a winter where you are.

I don`t know if the heat from the turbo would be enough to keep it from freezing as I have had them freeze in the engine compartment .

snow falling about 30 to 34 degrees F

Texas_Ace

Not bad but I have a feeling that you will have to switch out the PVC piping before long. For a few reasons.

Firstly it is not meant for heat and gets very soft when hot.

Second when it gets hot it releases very toxic fumes, I rememebr a guy that did this before and ended up passing out in his car from the fumes after a road trip IIRC.

Thirdly the PVC gets fragile and I doubt it will hold up long term.

It is ok for temp testing though.

How is the spool?

aowRS

Love it!



Andreas

Robb235

Maybe I missed it, but how much boost are you running?

Sent from my iPhone using YotaTech

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

I've really only had 1 good run around with it. I've just been squashing bugs. After it was nice and warm, the turbo was audibly spooling at idle. I'll post some videos later.

Yes, cone filter is short term. I'm going to build a snorkel, similar to u/Clownmeat.

I will switch out the motor side for proper charge pipe once the initial bugs are worked out. And might run a foot or two off the turbo side. IIRC Clownmeat is still using PCV along the top frame rail. Winter's here so might get away with it with the colder intake temps for a while.

Can't comment for much on spool and such. Today I am swapping the plugs with some BKR6E and putting on new Denso plug wires. I was getting a bad misfire at high rpm that limited my testing.

Thanks, it's been a fun learning project. I've had no other experience building, nor even driving/riding in a boosted gasser.

I have a 7lb spring in the wastegate and based on my single test drive, I was seeing 5lb boost in 3rd gear. I didn't see over 3lb in 1st and 2nd, which I'm not sure how that works... I don't have a boost controller yet, but will probably be getting a manual controller soon and turning it up to 7lb, which the stock tune can reliably handle with my colder plugs and premium fuel.


One other thing to note, I am seeing some oil leaks on the carport and on the bottom of the oil pan, which I've not had before. I put a check valve in the PCV line and pulled the line (venting to atmosphere) that's on the back of the DS valve cover so I don't feel like I should be boosting the crankcase. The majority of it appears to be coming from the round stock oil cooler thing on the DS block.

Texas_Ace

The misfires are more then likely due to it being stupid lean if you don't have fuel mods.

Even with the supercharger and stock pulley my AFR's would get up into the 14's at redline, EGT's most likely ~2000f degrees. You need fuel mods ASAP.

The boost being lower in lower gears is quite normal. There is less load on the motor so the turbo will have less energy flowing through it and thus the boost will react accordingly. This is a problem with some boost controllers as you will get boost creep in higher gears.

A Basic Ball and spring manual boost controller should work fine for you and should even the boost out through the gears at least some. Another factor is the lean AFR's, they will also cause all sorts of issues.

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

Yikes that scares me, I thought 7lb was acceptable with colder plugs and premium fuel. I'm only running 5lb right now. I was hoping my misfire was due to the fact that I had a plug wire with a horribly cracked insulator and was completely severed underneath the rubber boot. Also coupled with my (basically new) dual electrode .044 copper NGK plugs. I really can't buy a wideband right now

Jomoka

Stock injectors and ECU? Might want to start looking into something like Megasquirt.

Lean on an N/A motor is hard on it. Lean in a boosted motor really starts to melt stuff. And hopefully that misfire was plain lean misfire, and not detonation. Detonation under boost will break things in a hurry. Ping ping boom.

It might also be plugs gapped too wide. The Air/fuel mixture acts as an insulator/resistor between the electrodes on the plug. The higher the pressure gets when the spark tries to fire, the higher the resistance. To the point it can fail to spark on a wider gap that works perfectly fine at lower boost levels. Try gapping them down to .030 or even .028 or 025.

But really, get a wideband sooner rather than later. If you think a wideband costs money, think about how much replacing a busted up bottom end will cost. An Innovate LC1 with controller, sensor, and gauge is only about $150 on eBay.

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

Thank you for the suggestions. I'm putting in BKR6E plugs as we speak. I'll be trying to get a wideband ASAP.

Texas_Ace

Whoever told you that has not looked into the matter much. Gadget did tests years ago on a supercharger and found EGT's pegging his 2000f Degree gauge and AFR's stupid lean with just a basic pulley.

I saw the same with my AFR's on my truck. The stock fuel system is JUST enough for NA power and quickly gets overrun with any extra power. Generally looking at the stock fuel system maxing out around ~200whp, give or take some depending on 4wd/2wd, Auto/Manual ect.

Anything over that is past what the stock system can support safly. Now that said the 5vz is such an overbuilt tank it generally will live through stupid amounts of abuse without any noticeable damage. People misinterpret this as it being fine for the engine.

This is NOT the case, those conditions are horrible for the engine weather it lives or not. Plus you are leaving power and performance on the table when running it under those conditions.

The ignition system on the 5vz is VERY strong, I never had a problem with misfires even with all the stupid stuff I did to mine unless the AFR's went WAY out of whack or I injected way too much water. I had gaps as big as .050.

If your wires are real messed up this could cause it to be weaker but most likely it is just indicative of a larger issue.

Ditto above, get a wideband now before you drive it much more. Those should be a given for any kind of boosted setup.

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

Being that I've never driven a turbo, is this all normal behavior? I was hoping for a little more power right off idle as well, but guess that's not how it works. I tried to load up the turbo and power brake, but I couldn't even get the back tires to break loose 2 of the times I tried it.

I don't have a boost controller yet, either. Also it's not much fun to drive because it's too damn loud.

Power brake:


WOT:


Power brake start:


55mph rolling start downshift:

64tbird

I been kicking around the idea of boosting my 2.7. I will stay tuned for more updates. I know from my honda days when you add forced happiness you gotta tune somehow. Wether its a wideband and slightly bigger injectors and fuel pump and hope for decent or plug the fuel return line (bad idea). With more sir you need more fuel. When you get a good way to do that i will stesl all your hard work and claim it as my own on my truck!!!

turboyoterguy

For a faster spool/better off idle power (lower rpms in general) you may want to try and find a smaller exhaust housing (believe 9cm available stock and then for $$$ you can get custom) Would imagine a rear mount setup also contributing to a bit of lag so the smaller housing might be a better option.

Pretty neat setup tho, definitely cool to see in a 4runner. Will be watching this.

Texas_Ace

Yep just about what I would expect from that setup. It is laggy due to the combo of too large of a turbo for the engine/power goals and it being remote mounted.

What size is the turbo again? Like in MM? It looked like one of the larger HX turbos that is a GT35 or larger sized turbo. In which case spool looks to be right in line.

Really a smaller turbo would be a better idea for you, even an ebay ~52mm should work nicely.

If it was not remote mounted it would spool a few hundred rpm faster as well but the turbo itself plays the biggest role.

Another option that is actually better in some ways would be to simply get a high stall tourqe converter. It you got it high stalled then you would move the stall to around ~2800-3k rpm which is right about when the turbo you have starts to spool. So it would drastically change the overall performance.

I highly recommend a high stall anyways. Only problem is the labor, the actual work itself is only like $200.

The 2.7 is real easy to boost, lots of kits to chose from. It also takes to it very well. Check out customtacos for lots of builds.

Yep, the turbine housing is part of it but I think the whole turbo is just way too big for his goals. Not totally up on the HX line of turbos but it looked like it was GT35 or larger sized which is way overkill. He would be much better off with a smaller overall turbo.

This is why I always say that you need to set your goals and properly match your turbo to your goals. Otherwise you can end up with a turbo car that is no fun and what gave turbo cars the stigma they have now days.

Properly matched turbo cars are very fun.

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

All I ever read was how early the hx35 spool, but I learned that street car early, and offroad early are not the same thing. It also goes from vacuum to full boost very quickly, which is really not what I'm after either. A high stall would make it much more fun, I'm sure, if that were my goal.

The Holset hy35 uses a 9cm housing, so I may look into the compatibility. Or I may just ditch the Holset and use a tiny t3 turbo like Clownmeat. He was making full 7psi on the factory stall (2,200rpm ish)- that's what I want too. High RPM be damned, I prefer to not stay in the upper RPMs anyway. Give me v8 grunt.

I'll look into the 52mm. I will also look at a tiny .48-.57 A/R turbo. I'd like it to keep the t3/3" exhaust combo I have now for simplicity.

Texas_Ace

The HY does spool pretty good for it's size but it is a pretty large frame turbo so it is relative. It came off a big ole diesel not a little V6 afterall.

Turbo matching is the most important, easiest to screw up and hardest part of a well made turbo setup.

Done properly you can make a turbo do basically whatever you want within reason. Done improperly and it will make it worse then NA.

First off a few lessons on turbos:

AR is the size of the housing, it has nothing at all to do with the size of the turbo itself. You can get an 88mm turbo with a .57ar housing or a 40mm turbo with the same. One is a 1200hp turbo, the other a 200hp turbo.

The same goes for trim, it is a relative term that means virtually nothing without the rest of the turbo specs, ignore it until you have everything else nailed down. Good turbos don't even use the term trim as they give you real specs.

T3/T4 once again means nothing, it is simply the size of the inlet flange. You can get a 67mm turbo in a T3 or a 52mm turbo in a T4, drastically different turbos once again. Just pick the flange that you need to mount to your setup.

I can help you pick out a turbo for your goals if you lay out a clear outline of exactly what you are wanting and budget.

No matter what your goals are, I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend a high stall converter. I have run it both supercharged and NA it makes a WORLD of difference in both configurations and honestly I can't think of a place it would be worse.

We have lockup converters so MPG hardly changes as it locks up anytime above ~40mph and steady throttle anyways.

Off-road in particular the high stall would really come in handy as you would get more power down low due to the torque multiplication. If V8 type power is what you want, go high stall without a question.

RPM's don't just shoot up to your stall, driven like normal RPM's will only be slightly higher before lockup. Only when you hammer it does it really rev higher after break-in.

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

Well then I'm thinking about a .63 or even .57 A/R turbine. I stated that I wanted to stay with the t3 flange since that's what I have welded up already.

I know a higher stall would be ideal just don't have the desire right now- maybe later down the road. I'm just wanting to get back out on the trails.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T3-T4-T04E-Turbocharger-Turbo-63-A-R-Universal-Fitment-/261316878815?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd7b321df&vxp=mtr
or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T3-T4-T04E-Turbocharger-Turbo-57-A-R-Universal-Fitment-/331044270594?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d13c6b202&vxp=mtr
I'm selling my rebuilt Holset for $350 on Craigslist right now, so ideally that's my budget. Also this truck doesn't get driven much. It's certainly no DD. Longevity isn't a huge issue. If a $140 china turbo breaks, I'd just get another one or move on to another project. But of course I'd prefer better quality.

j2the-e

Cool setup. I think it might run better with the air flow meter in front of the turbo. They aren't designed to be pressurized, and the way they work, it would be better if the incoming air is closer in temp to the outside air.