Clownmeat

Got to fire up the 4runner with the turbo bolted on. Just need charge pipes and some other little junk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpb_f...layer_embedded

Texas_Ace

Nice setup, what are the specs on the turbo and setup? I have considered this for some time but the remote mount just doesn't seem like it would be worth it with all the lag.

Be real interested to see how it fairs on your truck.

Clownmeat

t3/t4 t04e 63ar 57 trim, more turbo lag on a rear mount turbo is a common misconception.

Texas_Ace

Yes and no, it IS a lot laggier then a properly built manifold. Now weather it is laggy when driving around, that depends on a lot of factors. The turbo size being a big one.

I have to wounder why all these turbo trucks always use old school T3/T4 turbos. Something like a 5857 or 6262 costs about the same but is FAR better performance.

Do you plan to dyno your truck? I would be interested to see what it makes.

Clownmeat

I can't say specifically that it is or isn't about the 5vz because I haven't done it yet and don't know anyone that has done a manifold on one either, but on the many other cars we have turbocharged with similar sized engines and turbo's the lag of a rear mount turbo compared to a under hood on a manifold has been unnoticeable.

Using the t3 because it was the right size and I have three of them.

No plans to dyno it but if I do I will let you know, just an offroad toy. Thanks for the helpful info.

STS's tacoma doesn't seem to be laggy by listening to it, but I haven't driven it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4t-J...yer_detailpage

Texas_Ace

Right, gets back to what I was saying. A rear mounted setup can feel fine but it is still laggier then a properly build manifold.

To compensate you have to run a smaller turbo which means less power, more heat and more backpressure.

I would want to run a 6266 turbo on my truck if i went turbo for example. On a properly built setup that should spool real nice, around ~2500-3k rpm. On a rear mounted setup i fear it would make it so laggy that it would not be real useable.

Either way i really like your setup and can't wait to see how it works for you. Be sure to take lots of pictures of it and as many details as possible.

How is the turbo supported? Are you using the stock manifolds or do you have headers? What size exhaust piping?

Clownmeat

Being used mainly for offroad so I needed a small turbo so it will spool at low rpm. Hopefully it works out good, if not oh well. Supports are 1/2 solid steel tubing, stock exhaust until after the downstream 02 sensor.

Texas_Ace

Not bad looking, if only i had a welder. How much do you figure you have in this setup as it is now?

Love that oil return! lol What are you using for the feed? One of the ports by the oil filter?

I would really gut your cat with this setup and run an O2 simulator. The cat will really take away from the turbo spool and performance.

Why did you put the turbo so far back? Why not move it further forward? Space?

More pictures! lol, I am getting all sorts of bad ideas from this.

Clownmeat

$400 so far. Still need a wastegate, charge pipes, bov, bigger trans cooler, boost gauge for the most part. Oil feed is from over by the oil filter. The cat will be removed when I am closer to finishing it, it's too loud to drive without it right now. It's so far back because of ground clearance, there is a lot more room back there compared to further forward.

Texas_Ace

Personally i would nix the BOV. Just run without it, it is not needed. The only reason they are used is for sound reduction. Performance wise they are bad juju. The myths that it will hurt your turbo to not have one are also just that, myths spread by the BOV manufactures. Getting a BOV to work with a MAF based system is not easy.

Otherwise looking good. $400 include the turbo? Got a breakdown on the pricing? I am seriously thinking about doing this. The more details and pictures the better.

Real interested in how you run the intercooler piping.

Clownmeat

I will post more when I get there. Have to disagree about the bov. Maybe in a low boost situation like this it would be okay without it but I have experienced "compressor surge" not that it might hurt the turbo but it did hinder performance, also I don't think aircraft and car companies would put them on stuff if they were bad. Never had a problem on a maf system, I vent the air back in after the metering system so that previously metered air stays in the system.

GV27

Yeah man, that BOV is there for a reason. Keeps the turbo from being stopped dead when you lift off. All sorts of benefits from that.....

I'm not saying he should put an obnoxious ricer one in there and go around hissing at everyone, but he does want one in there. Venting it back into the intake both quiets it and makes it work OK with the MAF - that's how manufacturers do it. And how ricers F it up by installing a loud one that doesn't vent back into the intake. The aftermarket ricer BOV makers didn't invent it though. Manufacturers and their race teams invented it for sound reasons.

Seems like a good idea to put it where there is a high attack angle to get at - but either way it seems REALLY vulnerable to me being underneath a truck that's doing a lot of off road work? I mean, we've all dented exhaust parts wheelin' - that'd ruin your day if you caught your turbo on something.....

C

Clownmeat

If i lost a u-joint the driveshaft would beat it to death also. There will be turbo armor.

GV27

Oi - didn't even think of that! I just have visions of a big fire ball rolling down the trail! LOL

Nice - armor 'er up!

Chris

Clownmeat

Here is some more pics and stuff
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f200.../#post51734593

Texas_Ace

All myth, I could go into all the details on why and how this is the case, i have had this debate before, i am well versed in it. But it would take this thread way OT.

I will just leave it at this:

The "surge" you were experiencing was off-throttle surge, this does not hurt anything. It does make an annoying sound though which is why OEM's put BOV's on. Every time someone heard it they would be bringing their car into get service if they didn't.

The bad kind of surge is on throttle surge from using a turbo outside it's efficiency range. This WILL cause turbo death in short order.

These 2 kinds of surge are completely different. I have been running 20+psi on my MR2 for years without a BOV along with many others and not a single problem.


Just going to address a few errors here then i promise to leave it alone, don't take this the wrong way, these are very common misconceptions.

Completely False. The turbo NEVER stops spinning or spins backwards or even slows down all that much for that matter.

A turbo making boost is spinning with the same inertia as a normal cars ~20lb flywheel @ ~3000rpm's. Thats a lot of stinking force, no way that is even coming close to slowing down much less stopping dead due to a few psi spike in air pressure. And yes it is only a few psi, Generally it will spike ~4-5psi when the throttle closes.

Race teams don't run BOV's in real race cars. Because they serve ZERO performance purpose. Like you said there 1 and only job is to reduce sound.

From a performance aspect you will get much faster throttle response without a BOV then with one, this I have seen first hand on many occasions. Everyone that has tried running without a BOV agrees the turbo response between gears is much improved.

Ok, thats it. Really didn't want to start a debate, i am in full support of this project and can't wait to see how it turns out. If you want to run a BOV that is perfectly fine. I was just tossing out anther option to make things simpler. These are common misconceptions and not your fault.

The aftermarket has pumped up BOV's to the point people think they somehow actually improve performance instead of the truth that they have no positive effects on performance at all. Thats why no race teams use them unless forced to by the rules or they have the BOV run to an anti-lag system.

xxxtreme22r

Aftermarket and Factory Blow off valves have different purposes. I wouldn't exactly say an aftermarket BOV reduses sound as they vent to atmos. A factory BOV say on a mitsu vents into the exhaust if I am not mistaken or is it intake post TB. I forget, whichever it is it isn't directly into atmos.

Can an intake pipe handle 10-12 psi with the throttle closed? That's what a BOV is for really. If your full throttle making boost and completely lift the BOV reduces that intake pressure. Now that's just 10-12 psi, what if your running a big turbo and high boost? You think an intake system is gonna handle 30 psi?

However like you said getting to work right with a MAF/AFM system is really tricky and damn near impossible to get right. This is why so many do a MAF to MAP conversion.

BTW, I always liked these remote mount turbo setups. Good luck with it.

Texas_Ace

By reducing sound, i am talking the fluttering sound from the turbo if you don't have a BOV. That will freak most people out more then a BOV sound lol.

Not sure where you are talking about with the boost in the intake piping. The piping holds that kind of pressure anyways when you are in boost, why wouldn't it hold it when you let off the gas and it spikes ~4psi? It better be able to handle a 4psi spike in pressure lol.

If you are talking about the intake piping, as in before the turbo, there will NEVER be pressure in there. There is a giant hole at the end of it covered by an air filter. Pressure can not build up in there.

In the end either way will work, just a lot simpler and easier to to run a MAF based tune without a BOV in a situation like this. I have seen soooo many complaints of people not being able to get the motor to run right when the BOV opens on these trucks.

Like I said, huge fan of this build and it was simply a suggestion to help make things simpler.

xxxtreme22r

Does that really only spike by 4 psi? I guess the wastegate takes care of most of it. Which is where that "flutter" comes in.

Texas_Ace

It depends on how much boost you are running but in a normal sub ~17psi setup, yeah 4-5psi is usually the most it will spike.

The wastegate actually doesn't play much of a role in it. The reason it doesn't spike more is that since the engine is not making any power it is not putting out any exhaust energy to drive the turbo. Without the turbo being driven it is not going to do much.

The reason it doesn't surge more is because of some really complicated fluid dynamics but basically the air pressure reaches a point that the compressor can not handle with the air having no place to go and no torque driving it. So the air stagnates and reverses, it then builds up to the plato again and this is where the flutter sound comes from.

Here is a graph showing what the pressure at the turbo outlet looks like on throttle lift and thus off throttle surge, as you can see it is really not scary at all:



With a BOV the boost drops instantly which is why you have worse throttle response between gears, you just throw all the built up boost away instead of saving it for the next gear.