tony_4runner

The other day while checking my shocks (another story/thread) I saw a small oil leak coming from the rear drums (driver side). After much reading over threads, opinions and debating, I decided to replace the oil seal "only". My theory was that I had not much to lose, the cost was $20 and couple hours of my time. If they leaked afterwards then I will do the seals + bearings.
Well, too much for that plan. I started by disassemblying the drums and axle. I probably faced the same problems everyone sees with rusted bolts. I have to say that my new DeWalt impact driver worked wonderful, as well as WD-40, the old wrench + hammer method and patience. To take out the seal I used the flat end of the tire lug wrench that comes with the truck. I used the flat end to pray out the seal, hitting the other end with a hammer and using the axle end as leverage point. CAUTION: the first time I used a rag between the wrench and the axle - not good. I damaged the inner (bevel) edge slightly. I am not too worried since after examining the bearing I don't think that would be critical. Any how, after that I used a plastic sheet between the wrench and axle that protected it wonderfully, and worked great. I had a tough time inserting the new seal. I bought two and bent one. My advice is to use a solid flat tool such as a big socket, or purchase the seal insert kit at Harbor Freight, which I did after struggling for couple hours with some home made tools (can bottom and tub spigot). HINT: you have to hammer the seal in a lot harder that what it feels confortable. It went in what I hope was all the way. After measuring from the seal edge to the axle end I had 37mm all around the perimeter. Next time I will try a combination of freezing the seal and adding grease on the outer edge plus making sure it is super clean.
My big problem was when I picked up the axle and realized there was a lot of wiggle between the axle and drum backplate. Actually, so much wiggle that it was scary - I hope nothing else is damaged inside the axle. Should have done the wiggle test first. In any case, at that point I realized I needed to replace the bearings, plus all the other expenses that come with it. I made the decision to purchase the bearings, spacers, etc at Toyotapart.com. I have to wait until the parts arrive and then take it to a shop for them to install the parts (shop to be decided). With all my frustration I decided to call it a day. However, over night I came to my senses and decided to take the passenger side out - makes sense since I had the oil gear out and all the tools ready. Glad I did, there is wiggle on that side as well, but a little less. This side was not leaking, but it was probably close to it. Now I have the two axles out and after I get the parts they will go to a shop to install the bearings. I will have no car for couple days, so I will have to bike to work....
Besides the inner seals, I purchased: 4 retainers, 2 ABS skid control rotors, 2 outer seals, 2 snap rings and the 2 o-rings.

mjwalfredo

Been there, done that and have the t shirt! The bearings do seem to have a little bit of wobble even when they are good. When they are shot, it will sound really bad when you spin the backing plate around the axle shaft.

I had good luck using permatex right-stuff on the outside rim of the seals when I put mine in. I was getting a leak b/w the outside rim and housing before trying that trick.

tony_4runner

I was wondering if "some" wobble is normal. The question is how much is acceptable? Maybe the passenger side was good or not too bad, but it made sense to do both of them. I had 120k on it, which is not much. At least I will have rear axle for a long time.

mjwalfredo

Doing both of them is definitely the right thing. Make sure to check for leaks often once you re-assemble everything. You definitely don't want to have to replace a bearing for a second time if there is a problem the new axle seal install. (Trust me... that is how I found out about the Permatex trick)

habanero

My 96 axle doesn't have spacers, just space between, so the shop just pressed everything all the way down the shaft. Had to pull the other side so they could compare and fix their mistake with proper spacing between parts. Don't know (not yet, anyway) if the 99's the same way, but make sure the shop notes the empty space if it's there, 'specially as they have both of your axles.
The shop I used does a local dealership's 3rd gen axles "all the time", according to the dealership itself, so I assumed they knew what they were doing. Well, a had an assume made of me when I figured it was my seal install that was causing leaking rather than their inappropriate spacing.

tony_4runner

mjwalfredo, I am confussed. Did you add permatex btw the outer rim of the seals and the tunnel housing? That sounds odd. Mine had such a tight fit that I don't think permatex would have made any sense, or would have worked at all. I thought off adding grease there to make it easier to slide into the seat, but not permatex.

mjwalfredo

Yeah, I put the permatex on the outter rim. I think I might have gouged the axle housing a bit when removing the old seals so the permatex really helped. If you already put the new seals in then dont worry about it. It was just a suggestion that you might have wanted to try.

tony_4runner

Since I was talking about "wobble" of the axle I decide to measure it. I placed the axle up resting on the bolts in a flat surface, splines up. I placed a caliper at the edge of the backplate. Moved the backplate up and down to measure the difference. The absolute measurements are not important since they depend on where exactly you measure. The important thing was to measure the vertical difference (delta). One side was ~0.08" and the other was ~0.11". Actually, the side I thought it was worst, the one leaking, measured less wobble. Any experience, or anyone, with this measurements? When I get my axles back with new bearings I will measure the "good" wobble, if any.
Read update. Wobble is normal and maybe not a good measurement to determine if the bearings are bad or not.

85GT-79FJ40

I may have to try that permatex trick. I changed the driver's rear bearing, both seals, ABS ring, spacers, and rear brakes on my wife's 00 4Runner 2 months ago. Then I noticed it was leaking again. So I bought another set of shoes and another inner seal. Put everything together and noticed the axle vent was clogged. So I fixed that in the process. 100 miles later and it's leaking again. So this time it doesn't look like anything got on the shoes. So I sealed the end of the axle up around the edge with great stuff to hopefully prevent gear oil from flinging out into the brakes and only come out the vent hole that lines up with one of the holes in the drum. Hopefully it will live another 2 weeks until another vehicle on the road for spring. Then I'm going back in again for another bearing, both seals, maybe another set of shoes.... This really sucks. I don't like doing jobs twice let alone 3 times.

tony_4runner

I think the key is to have the seal flat against the bottom of the seat. Unfortunately, I don't know of a better way of knowing if the seal is completely seated than hitting it hard and flat many times. As you are hitting it with a hammer make sure you have a tool that is in equal contact with the whole circumference of the seal. After you think the seal is seated, measure the distance from the seal's metal face to the axle edge with preferably a caliper. This distance should be equal all around. Make sure your measuring points on the seal and axle are at the same radial distance from the axis - the face of the seal may not be perfectly flat.

tony_4runner

wow.... it was a lot harder to find a shop that wanted to install the bearings. Finally, Weaver Auto Parts has a shop in the back of the store where they do service for private parties and other shops. They seem to know what they were doing. Asked the right questions. I gave dropped the axles today and gave them all the parts. They are charging a bit more that what I expected, $100 per axle, $200 total. However, I spent too much time looking for a place so that was it. I should get the axles back tomorrow. I hope all comes back good.

J2F42C

Some machine shops in northern VA, DC metro, charge more. I found that cash and a right after lunch appointment off the books usually gets the best price each time.

I do not know the maxium amount of deflection the axle can have and still consider the bearings in good working order. With 15,000 miles on replaced inner seals, I'd say IMO the key to it is the repositioning of the inner seal inside the axle.

Here is the best DIY article on rear axle seal replacement. Thank BigFishAllDay for it:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-ge...d-3rd-gen.html

tony_4runner

I know I paid a bit more, but I had not much of a choice. Yes, I probably would have been able to buy a press at HF for that money, but all the threads I read about doing the job did not sound easy. Plus it seems I would have to buy more parts on top of the press and my wife won't appreciate having a unused big press sitting in the no space I have in the garage. I don't have a grinder either for the ABS wheel. So it sounded overwhelming to do the bearing portion on my own. Feels better to overpay $100 for that portion of the job than $800+ for the dealer doing the whole - assuming my seals don't leak again.... knock; knock.
BTW, I am going to skip replacing the brake pads. They were not terrible, so I will try spraying and cleaning them. If that doesn't work, then I will make sure there is no leak before replacing the pads.

tony_4runner

Yeap J2F42C, that's the thread I am using as a guide. Great write up!!

J2F42C

Tony,

If you have an extra $65, I'd replace the shoes. OEM shoes and nothing else. More than anything, it would help with towing the boat. Another $20~$30 gets both the drums turned at a local tire place or even a store like NAPA.

Here is the best link I have for replacing the shoes. Click on the PDF:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...rake-tutorial/

The only thing I find wrong with the tutorial is pinching the soft rear brake line. Just use a 5/32 vacuum cap at the end of each hard line to stop the brake fluid.

Take some pics when you finish and post them, especially with the boat in tow....

tony_4runner

yeah, I am afraid about the pinching of the hose. By the time I install the axles back it will be a week pinched. I hope they are not permanently damaged. I used a soft rubber hose btw the brake hose and the vise as added protection. I did not think about the caps, good idea.

Potomacduck

Guys, I have done this job and there's a right way and a wrong way. Please read this thread it will save you a world of headaches as well as doing the axle seal job over and over again.

This thread applies to ABS axles:


https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/r...ebuild-226134/


.

tony_4runner

ok, wow, read your thread. Doesn't make any sense why Toyota will do that. If that's the case, then how do I know how far to tap it? Do you have the measurement from the seal to the axle edge? Mine are about 37mm to the inner beveled edge of the axle tunnel. I guess I could see where the seal sits on the retainer ring by inserting and pulling out; however, would the grease be enough for the seal to mark where it sits?

Potomacduck

It's wierd but this it's true and it explains why a most of axle seal jobs fail.

Putting grease on the inner seal and then re-inserting the axle will form a slight grease line on the retaining collar. That will tell you exactly where the axle seal is sitting. This is the 100% way to know where that seal is riding on the retaining collar and it takes 1 minute to do. I wish I had taken pictures of this when I did the job.

Also, the inner axle seals are cheap. Buy an extra to experiment with.

tony_4runner

Thinking here.... Could it also be a consequence of where the spacer ring is installed when the bearing is pressed in? If the spacer was not properly located it won't match up with the seal. Then, in this case it would be useful to test the location of the seal with respect to the spacer before final install to make sure they match. Does this make sense, or there is not way the spacer could be improperly located?