Los Gatos?

I want a locker but not an ARB or e-locker...are they quirky in the snow (I can handle that) or are they actually dangerous. I'm not talking about snow all the time, just a week or so of the year...

gwhayduke

Depends...
An automatic locker, yes, it will make your vehicle handle quirky. For instance, on a turn normally your outside wheel is powering you through a turn, usually giving you some oversteer. With a locker, your inside wheel will power you through, without as much power and with understeer.

A manual locker (ARB or Toy electric) will handle normal until engaged and it shouldn't be engaged on high friction surfaces since one tire will be forced to "slip" whenever you turn, putting extra stress on the locker.

YoungFeller

I haven't regretted putting in a rear LockRight any day of the year, snow or not. If you let someone else borrow your truck in the snow, it could possibly be dangerous, but once you get used to it, I find it nothing but a benifit.

Turning corners in the snow, I found the inside tire slipping just a little to keep up with the outside one, which maintains static friction with the ground (it even has more weight on it). Under light throttle, a locker or spool tracks nicely around corners in the snow and provides greater motivation than an open differential. With an open diff, if one tire spins, it only delivers dynamic friction force on the ground--much less than static friction. The other tire receives the equal force so motivation equals 2 * dynamic friction. With a locker under light throttle, the inside tire is slipping to keep up with the outer so it delivers dynamic friction, while the outside tire is treading along providing much greater static friction. So it's dynam + static >> 2 * dynamic. The locker has the ability to motivate the truck much better, I think.

Occasionally, on start-out or accelleration in the snow, both tires will lose static friction if the power input is too great for the available friction. then the driven axle will tend to (but not always, for reasons unknown) slide toward the downhill side of the road. Stabbing in the clutch will usually reestablish static friction and hold the axle stable. Then feather the clutch and use less power to maintain static friction. Then it will pull away, straight and smooth.

Eric

Robinhood150

But wait, Los Gatos, you have a 2wd right? I would think that would make a huge difference in the way it handles. Guys, what do you think about a locker on a 2wd?

Steve

WATRD

A limited slip or Lockright type system can be pretty quirky in snow and ice. But a locked selectable locker or a spool can be downright dnagerous.

What makes it unpredictable is when a wheel you were not counting on suddenly gets traction and propels your rig in a direction you were not prepared for.

My lockers stay off in snow, except for short blasts across sections where I know I will need better traction and can pay 100% attention or when I am already on the verge of getting stuck and need a few moments of extra traction.

AH64ID

Rob is 100% correct, a full on locker in the snow/ice is flatout dangerous. This is why I have put a ARB in my 4runner. I am sure you could probally control the uncontrolable around town, but getting up to highway speeds in the winter would not be safe at all. Espically if it a 2wd, since there is nothing pulling the front. It similar to riding a sport ATV on the ice/snow....you can go whereever you want, as long as its not straight down the road.

If its a daily driver where you might ever encounter snow/ice I would highly reccomend a selectable locker.

HBoss

Not to be a wrench in the machinery, but I only agree with a rear locker being dangerous on slick surfaces, i.e. ice / frozen dirt. It's not truly dangerous in deep snow (my opinion). Your vehicle will have a hard time fishtailing or kicking out, because your wheels have to push 6"+ of snow (like a snow plow going sideways) off to the side in order for it to fishtail that way. If snow is thick on either side of your vehicle and you're travelling less than 5 mph, it's going to be hard to make a vehicle kick out the rear, even if you wanted to.

However, to be on the safe side, if you're offroading in deep snow and there's a steep bank on one side, keep the locker off just in case. Muphy's law & all...

I've driven offroad in deep snow with lockers on all the time for one trip and lockers off all the time for another trip and I must admit it ran wonderfully locked in 10"+ of snow. I didn't fishtail once on that trip, not once.

On our January trip, w/o much snow, where it was mostly frozen dirt, the locker caused the rear end to kick out once, going up a very tiny hill. But there was a drop off to the right of that tiny hill. That was definitely dangerous and scary.

Anyway, I know I might get some disagreements on this one, but I've tried it both ways, so I'm just giving you my feedback on it.

Al

EDIT: Going up a hill at a crawl + slick surface + locker on = definitely dangerous. You could easily have your truck kick to one side, making you perpendicular to the hill. As you naturally hit the brakes and lock the wheels, you may slide sideways and down, hit a rut and then you're in a roll all the way down the hill.

Los Gatos?

I think I'm gonna get a limited slip instead. Probably a supra unit. It will be better than open diffs offroad and better than a locker in snow/ice. Thanks for all your input, though!

AH64ID

Since you say you only run in the snow/ice one week a year a LSD will probally be great. I live in Idaho and we get more snow than that..and I hated the LSD I had in my ranger...was the scaryest going downhill on ice with any degree of offcamber, it would just slid sideways....

And yes in deep snow a locker is not as dangerous, but the conditions encounterd on the road are much different. I love my locker in deep snow, I can go almost anywhere locked, rear chains in 2wd.....Throw all 4 chains on and its on...bring on the freshies...

A lot also has to do with your tires, in snow skinny tires are better and wont slide sideways as much as wide tires..which is why my TSL's stay in the shed in the winter..You say the word ice and they break loose, even with my cute little 22RE :-)

HBoss

"cute", LOL !

I second the motion, Los Gatos. For your driving habits, you're probably better off spending your hard-earned money on an LSD instead of a locker.

Al

Los Gatos?

Between the Tru Trac and the Supra LSD, which one should I get? I could put the tru trac in my 7.5" (that's what I have, right?) diff...I'd need an 8" 3rd for the supra, right? If there is a shop (randy's?) that could sell me a whole regeared supra lsd 3rd I'd probably go that route....

CTB

7.5" diffs in front
8.0" diffs in rear

Los Gatos?

Ohhhh that's cool. For some reason I thought since I was 2wd I had a different sized diff. Neato!

CTB

Oh, are you talking about in your pickup? I'm guessing that your rear diff is still 8.0". I think Tacomas, without the e-locker, and T-100's had the 8.4" rear.

jx94148

Ive done a lot of driving in 2 HI with locked rear in snow, ice, and whatever. Its predictable, not at all dangerous IMHO. In turns the rear wants to kick out with throttle, Just lay off the throttle till you get through the turn. It will track straight. Going straight iswhat a locked rear does best.

When it comes to automatic lockers, I think that would be interesting because you would never know when it would transtiton from a differential state to locked state. Not necessarily dangerous but deffinatly something to be aware of in those conditions. That would not be the time to talk on the phone and sip coffee while steering with your knee.

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AH64ID

I am almost positive that toyota used a 7.5" ring gear on all 2wd trucks, however I could be wrong. But which ever shop you buy from will undoubtly know.

The guy at the seattle (lynnwood) 4wheelparts store, Darren, worked for Randy Ring and Pinon, and knows his stuff..he can probally get you what ever you need cheaper then anywhere else..and he will make a good reccomendation.

-john

YoungFeller

Yes, 7.5" ring in 2wd semi-float rear.