alcohol as fuel?
06-04-2004, 06:24 PM
#3
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Alcohol will dry out all the rubber seals in your fuel injection. Many seals are silicone now but I would not trust it at all. Yes, the engine will likely run but very poorly at best because the stoichiometric ratios are different from alcohol to gas. The engine will also run much cooler than if you burn gas.
06-04-2004, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MTL_4runner
Alcohol will dry out all the rubber seals in your fuel injection. Many seals are silicone now but I would not trust it at all. Yes, the engine will likely run but very poorly at best because the stoichiometric ratios are different from alcohol to gas. The engine will also run much cooler than if you burn gas.
06-04-2004, 07:04 PM
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I would imagine that, yes it would damage the engine. Alcohol burns hotter than gas there for, you have a chance of your heads getting warped. Also, the carb wasn't ever made to run off of alcohol. The mixture won't be right at all.
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06-04-2004, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by oly884
I would imagine that, yes it would damage the engine. Alcohol burns hotter than gas there for, you have a chance of your heads getting warped.
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I agree with Jamie, I think the engine will run cooler also. I not really worried about damage to the engine. I am concerned about the fuel delivery system (rubber seals and carberator gaskets)
06-04-2004, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 2wd1stgen
The engine will also run much cooler than if you burn gas.
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I agree with Jamie, I think the engine will run cooler also. I not really worried about damage to the engine. I am concerned about the fuel delivery system (rubber seals and carberator gaskets)
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- Jamie
I agree with Jamie, I think the engine will run cooler also. I not really worried about damage to the engine. I am concerned about the fuel delivery system (rubber seals and carberator gaskets)
06-04-2004, 07:35 PM
#10
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Alcohol has about half the BTU's of gasoline. Carbs & EFI need major reworking to run alcohol, the mixture needs to be around 8:1. Your typical alcohol dragster crew chief would liken an alcohol carb to a garden hose, the fuel literally pours in. As such, your mileage will drop dramatically. For the general consumer, alcohol is a band-aid. It helps extend the gasoline but it has no practical use by itself.
06-04-2004, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BigBadBlue
But not in the combustion chamber where it will burn hotter hence warping a head like was said. Right or wrong? Im not being sarcastic or anything, curious myself.
06-04-2004, 07:45 PM
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For the general consumer, alcohol is a band-aid. It helps extend the gasoline but it has no practical use by itself.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by extend the gasoline? How high of a percentage of alcohol to gas mixture would you feel comfortable running?
What do you mean by extend the gasoline? How high of a percentage of alcohol to gas mixture would you feel comfortable running?
06-05-2004, 05:53 AM
#14
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The alcohol you're talking about is probably ethanol, C2H5OH...Grain alcohol.
Most gas/alcohol mixes use less than 10% alcohol by volume if I remember correctly. Alcohol also has a lower boiling point than gasoline...I'll try to look the specs later today. But if you try to use it in the summer, with higher engine temperatures, you'll probably vaporlock...a condition most of you youngsters have never heard of. Essentially you develop a bubble of vapor between the fuel pump and the engine that can't be pushed through by the fuel pump...and so your engine stops. That's why you don't see alcohol fuel mixes after April in most places.
Alcohol does have an oxygen atom in its chemical formula which is released in the combustion reaction and reacts with the hydrocarbon oxygen mixture in the combustion chamber and lowers the amount of CO produced (toxic and attaches to red blood cells rendering them useless) and increases the amount of CO2 produced. I don't know about its effects on the NO2...but since it has fewer BTU's than gas, it would probably lower combustion temperatures and the subsequent NO2 which is a brownish, toxic gas and is a major component of the brown haze that hangs over cities during winter temperature inversions.
Ethanol is good stuff, but some of its physical properties make it suitable only during cooler times of the year (and then in limited amounts) without some reworking of your fuel system.
Most gas/alcohol mixes use less than 10% alcohol by volume if I remember correctly. Alcohol also has a lower boiling point than gasoline...I'll try to look the specs later today. But if you try to use it in the summer, with higher engine temperatures, you'll probably vaporlock...a condition most of you youngsters have never heard of. Essentially you develop a bubble of vapor between the fuel pump and the engine that can't be pushed through by the fuel pump...and so your engine stops. That's why you don't see alcohol fuel mixes after April in most places.
Alcohol does have an oxygen atom in its chemical formula which is released in the combustion reaction and reacts with the hydrocarbon oxygen mixture in the combustion chamber and lowers the amount of CO produced (toxic and attaches to red blood cells rendering them useless) and increases the amount of CO2 produced. I don't know about its effects on the NO2...but since it has fewer BTU's than gas, it would probably lower combustion temperatures and the subsequent NO2 which is a brownish, toxic gas and is a major component of the brown haze that hangs over cities during winter temperature inversions.
Ethanol is good stuff, but some of its physical properties make it suitable only during cooler times of the year (and then in limited amounts) without some reworking of your fuel system.
06-05-2004, 08:50 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by 2wd1stgen
Originally Posted by toy283
For the general consumer, alcohol is a band-aid. It helps extend the gasoline but it has no practical use by itself.
There is supposedly that E85 stuff out there that is 85% ethanol. The gasoline that is in it is probably necessary to increase the BTU rating of the alcohol and make it useable with only light mods to the fuel system. I've never seen the stuff myself (probably very common in farm country) so I'm not sure about how it would run in a standard gasoline vehicle.
Last edited by toy283; 06-05-2004 at 08:55 AM.
06-05-2004, 09:17 AM
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If your looking for an alternative, why not try propane? Theres a guy in Phoenix, Az. that sells a kit for the 22r (carbed) motor that looks interesting.
I think he's at Gotprpane.com and he sells the kits for under a grand. Improves angles big time, better milage and cleaner burning. Why alcohol?
I think he's at Gotprpane.com and he sells the kits for under a grand. Improves angles big time, better milage and cleaner burning. Why alcohol?
06-05-2004, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by flecker
If your looking for an alternative, why not try propane? Theres a guy in Phoenix, Az. that sells a kit for the 22r (carbed) motor that looks interesting.
I think he's at Gotprpane.com and he sells the kits for under a grand. Improves angles big time, better milage and cleaner burning. Why alcohol?
I think he's at Gotprpane.com and he sells the kits for under a grand. Improves angles big time, better milage and cleaner burning. Why alcohol?
06-05-2004, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gwhayduke
The alcohol you're talking about is probably ethanol, C2H5OH...Grain alcohol.
Most gas/alcohol mixes use less than 10% alcohol by volume if I remember correctly. Alcohol also has a lower boiling point than gasoline...I'll try to look the specs later today. But if you try to use it in the summer, with higher engine temperatures, you'll probably vaporlock...a condition most of you youngsters have never heard of. Essentially you develop a bubble of vapor between the fuel pump and the engine that can't be pushed through by the fuel pump...and so your engine stops. That's why you don't see alcohol fuel mixes after April in most places.
Alcohol does have an oxygen atom in its chemical formula which is released in the combustion reaction and reacts with the hydrocarbon oxygen mixture in the combustion chamber and lowers the amount of CO produced (toxic and attaches to red blood cells rendering them useless) and increases the amount of CO2 produced. I don't know about its effects on the NO2...but since it has fewer BTU's than gas, it would probably lower combustion temperatures and the subsequent NO2 which is a brownish, toxic gas and is a major component of the brown haze that hangs over cities during winter temperature inversions.
Ethanol is good stuff, but some of its physical properties make it suitable only during cooler times of the year (and then in limited amounts) without some reworking of your fuel system.
Most gas/alcohol mixes use less than 10% alcohol by volume if I remember correctly. Alcohol also has a lower boiling point than gasoline...I'll try to look the specs later today. But if you try to use it in the summer, with higher engine temperatures, you'll probably vaporlock...a condition most of you youngsters have never heard of. Essentially you develop a bubble of vapor between the fuel pump and the engine that can't be pushed through by the fuel pump...and so your engine stops. That's why you don't see alcohol fuel mixes after April in most places.
Alcohol does have an oxygen atom in its chemical formula which is released in the combustion reaction and reacts with the hydrocarbon oxygen mixture in the combustion chamber and lowers the amount of CO produced (toxic and attaches to red blood cells rendering them useless) and increases the amount of CO2 produced. I don't know about its effects on the NO2...but since it has fewer BTU's than gas, it would probably lower combustion temperatures and the subsequent NO2 which is a brownish, toxic gas and is a major component of the brown haze that hangs over cities during winter temperature inversions.
Ethanol is good stuff, but some of its physical properties make it suitable only during cooler times of the year (and then in limited amounts) without some reworking of your fuel system.
I am actually planing on using isoprpanol because I can get it for free. Do you think this stuff will work the same a ethanol?
06-05-2004, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by EDGE
They smog check an 85, I thought the tail pipe test was for 96 and newer 
