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Finally decided to do the tundra swap!
Since last time, while driving back with my kids from a camping trip, my brake pads froze furthermore my Autozone / Napa rotors are no true anymore. Not to mention the heavy load on the rotors and calipers while hauling didn't help at all.
Replacing pads and truing the rotors will be almost 1/4 of the price as upgrading them with a Brembo kit I found.
Just for future reference, I'm going to be able to replace the whole set up with almost $350
( 190 inc/tax Brembo rotors and pads ) + $75x2 remanufactured calipers at Auto/napa including core discount.
Very nice write up on this mod... Sorry that I am jumping into this thread without maybe doing some homework.
Questions: Is this mod only for 17" wheel scenario? Does it work for 16"or even 15" wheels?
My son has a 98 4runner. He had 15" wheels (15x8) aftermarket wheels and it has 16" brake/caliper system. He bought some other 15" wheels that he really wanted and the guy that sold them to him ground down the calipers to make them fit. Unfortunately today, brakes failed because fluid blew through the calipers. BTW - son also added some spacers to offset the wheel a bit but damage was already done to calipers.
So I am trying to do some corrective alterations to make it so his wheels can remain on vehicle. I was considering getting 15" system from a parts vehicle and found this forum when doing some research for alternatives. Anyone out there have suggestions/warnings about what I am attempting.
Thanks for posting on my mod. Unfortunately, this mod is for 16 or 17 inch wheels. 15 will not work with this mod, using Tundra calipers. They are by design BIGGER then the stock 16" setup so 15 would not work. Really surprised your son had a 98 that had 15inch wheels. I had a 95 2nd gen before my 3rd gen 98 and I wanted to keep my brand new tires and wheels I had just put on my 95 when the 98 dropped into my lap. The dealer even let me swap the tires and wheels but they would not fit over the front disk calipers.
I have hear about grinding the calipers down for fitment but as you can see from first hand experience ... don't "modify" factory castings. If he could find a set of nice wheels that are either 16 or 17 from either a 4runner or Tacoma then do the upgrade to the Tundra brakes. Remember to use 2000/01 Tundra setups. Follow my recommendations on the setup and you will be solid. It has been quite a few years now and the only thing I had to do so far is replace the pads with new Tundra pads, turn the rotors and its been solid. Sorry to hear about your unfortunate events. Welcome to the Forum
yes, the stock 4runner wheels will fit on the Tundra upgrade I wrote up BUT (wait for it) you may need to trim the dust shield on the hub. Read my thread/procedure COMPLETELY! I used my stock 16" 4runner alloy factory wheels on my upgrade, but I did have to file the dust shields slight so they would not rub.
I recently upgraded to a 2004 set of Toyota stock Tacoma wheels which happen to be 17 inch, so as I already modified my dust shields, I do not know if they need to be filed/trimmed in order to use the 17" wheels, it would be a fitting issue.
As for using your 16" stock wheels, you will need to trial fit the wheels and see how much you will need to file/trim. I didn't have to take of more then 1/8th of an inch so I just filed them to make them look stock and not have to worry about buggered edges. Remember, the calipers will not be the issue, it is the dust shield on the front hubs.
If you don't know what these are, read this part of my pictorial. I have included it below Right after I instruct you to put the "new" Tundra rotor on the hub, I tell you to check for fitment and clearance of the dust shield and the wheel. It may require you to file some of the dust shield off to make enough room so you don't have rubbing of the shield and the wheel. I hope this makes it easier to understand!
"
Check the dust shield. Use the file to remove a small amount of the dust shield edge.
Once the proper clearance has been obtained, install and center the rotor using the lug nuts, "
It's not an issue of trimming the dust shield as that isn't an integral portion of the safety package of a vehicle. I would have had an issue with clearance the rim or the caliper itself as those as castings and don't take kindly to a lot of modification.
The last thing I want to do is introduce a weak spot to the caliper or the rim where failure could be catastrophic. The dust shield... not so much.
It's not an issue of trimming the dust shield as that isn't an integral portion of the safety package of a vehicle. I would have had an issue with clearance the rim or the caliper itself as those as castings and don't take kindly to a lot of modification.
The last thing I want to do is introduce a weak spot to the caliper or the rim where failure could be catastrophic. The dust shield... not so much.
My experience in this mod and with all the reading of other threads related to the Tundra brake mod, is that if you use the stock 16" wheels with the 2000-02 Tundra calipers you should not have any issues with clearance of 16" and larger factory wheels. the clearance issue comes with using larger Tundra calipers from later years. There were two types of calipers made for the Tundra's, one is the original issue 199mm and will have the number S13WE, the larger Tundra calipers are identified as 231mm and have the number 13WL stamped on them. If you use the calipers I identified in this mod (S13WE) then you should not have any issue with modifying the calipers to fit. There was a TSB issued for the early year Tundra as they were having issues with brake fad and warping ... hmmmm sounds familiar. So just remember if you go to a wrecking yard looking for the 199mm calipers then you may find 00-02 Tundras with "upgraded" calipers. Even with the 199mm calipers ,the dust shield will rub on the rotor so trimming it removes the contact it makes. If you use the 231mm calipers you will most likely have to go with 17" Toyota wheels.
I would search for other threads on this mod as well and not just on this site, lots of 4runners out there and several really good forums, but I like to think the best are here!. If you do proceed, I would first pre-fit the rotor and then fit up the wheel. Spin it by hand and see where you may have any interference. If the issue is with the calipers then the wheel will not fit. If it is the dust shield, it will fit but will rub and you can remove what ever amount you need to make the contact disappear without worrying about caliper contact. Like I said before, the contact will be the dust shield to the rotor. I can only tell you what I did and how it worked for me and that was exactly 7 years ago next week, I'm still using the mod and have only had to replace the rotors and pads since then. Good luck.
Last edited by Ritzy4Runner; 05-21-2015 at 09:47 PM.
Reason: clarification
Great write up and follow-on updates, Ritzy, super informative - thanks.. I've replaced pads/rotors on my stock '96 Runner w/16" wheels several times in the 10 years and 225,000 miles I've owned her (currently sitting at 345,000), and the brakes always feel awesome for the first year or two after putting in new parts, but then the rotors eventually warp and I'm back to the <whump-whump-whump-whump-whump-whump-whump> when braking, especially coming off of the freeway or in other hard-braking scenarios. Can anyone here say (from a technical basis) what the actual benefits of the BBU are? I know that probably sounds like a dumb question, but I don't want to just jump on the bandwagon and do the upgrade simply because everyone else is. Ritzy, you mention that a year or two after you did the upgrade, you still had a shimmy show up in the front end and needed to turn the rotors, which is pretty much what I've experienced with my stock 16" brakes to date. Does the BBU, if using new rotors, get rid of the issue permanently? I mean, obviously brakes are a wearing part, and need replacement on every vehicle at some point, but I guess what I'm really asking is does the BBU stretch the interval at least?
Second question - I bought new 4Runner pads/rotors a couple of years ago in anticipation of needing to do the brakes again, as the last time I did them was April of 2013, and they had started to shimmy after a couple of years (yes, I've procrastinated it for the past 2 or three years now, until the whump-whump is so bad now that I can't stand it anymore LOL). So I have brand new pads/rotors sitting on the shelf in my garage, still in the plastic wrappers. Assuming that I go ahead with the BBU, can I use either of them with the new Tundra calipers? Sounds like I would need to get the 199mm calipers, vs. the 231mm, as I have 16" wheels (unless I want to install spacers), correct? (with the requisite dust shield trimming, etc.)
Last question - I have a bad vibration in the entire vehicle that shows up most around 70, and then again, bad, around 81-85. It feels like a driveline thing to me (even though I can't feel any play in the knuckles when I lay under the rig and try to wiggle the driveline). Is it possible that the front brakes are playing a part in this? I doubt it, as the vibration seems to originate farther back from what I can tell, but you never know, so thought I'd ask as long as I was here. I've also heard that Toyota wheels are finicky about how they are balanced, though I just swapped the chundered up stock 3x2-spoke rims with much nicer 5-spoke stock 16's from a later rig, and didn't notice any difference in the vibration afterwards. I'd think if it was the finicky wheel/balance thing, it would have changed and not remained the same, yes?
Thanks everyone - love this forum, always so much great info here, and super-cool contributors!
you can can see the side by side of the rotors. The Tundra rotors are a lot thicker, that equals more mass, and that equals higher tolerance and absorption of heat before it tempers and loses friction properties.
The calipers are also bigger, mean more fluid capacity, and more heat tolerance.
Awesome intel - thanks Fiero! Now I clearly see the difference between the old 4Runner rotors and the newer Tundras. I had seen (somewhere) a mention of the old rotors being the same as the new, but I suspect I misinterpreted it to mean in every way, when actually it was only in diameter LOL
So it looks like the split 3-spoke 16's need to be ground somewhat for the Tundra 231's to work, but maybe not the stock 5-spoker FJ 16's, according to your build? The ones I bought off of Craigslist a few months look like this:
If you look at post #76 in my build thread I mention that my spare tire is a split 3. I can use it on the rear over the drums, but it doesn't fit over the fronts. I will soon be swapping that tire from a split-3 wheel to a 5 spoke wheel that I had hiding around the garage. 2 reasons, I don't want to go grinding away at the rim possibly putting it uncorrectably out of balance, and 2 I don't really want to grind away at a rim for clearance if I don't have to... I have an extra wheel that fits.
Thanks Fiero. I had 16" split-3's on my 4R to start with but am now rolling on 16" 5-spoke FJ wheels. I think I saw somewhere else that FJ's all had 231 mm calipers, and that all of the 16" FJ wheels would accommodate the 231's. Can you (or anyone else on the thread) confirm?
I am not very keen on hand grinding wheels either, had a bad experience back in HS doing that, many many many moons ago....
If you don’t mind waiting a few days I’m due for a tire rotation and I’ll be breaking down the split-3 rim to swap to my matching rim. I’ll take some pictures and measurements of the dish side of the rim to give you reference points.
Nice Write up,
My 00 4runner had something similar to this done but the guy replaced Master Cylinder as well as Brake Power booster.I do not see any talk of this on these forums. Talk about a pain when there is no Documentation with vehicle and the Power booster is going bad. Can I switch back to a stock power booster and master cylinder? Does Stock master cylinder and power booster work fine?
thanks for your reply that is my experience as well seems the brake pedal goes all the way to the floor and feels like there is no real good braking without trying to throw a pump in to stiffen up the petal.
anyone know what purpose the gasket between master cylinder and brake booster serves? seems it is not holding any liquid in does it help with vacuum? which doesn't make sense either....
The brake system, like most others, functions best when completely sealed from outside. If leaks are discovered, could be o-rings or gaskets that have failed, and yes, lose vacuum as well with braking.
03-30-2016, 10:00 AM
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