dromomaniac

Not sure that this is the right subforum...

The US seems to be entering into a phase of diesel availability that a lot of us have been waiting for. Considering that Toyota has been making quality CR diesels for a decade, I'm disappointed with their apathy to the trend. So, I'm seriously considering the new, diesel Ram 1500.

The VM Motori a630 is, on paper, a much better engine than almost anything in Toyota's lineup (see Wiki: 1kd, 2kd, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_VD_engine). The a630 makes 240hp and 420lb ft at 2000 RPM while approaching 30 mpg highway. Only the twin-turbo 1VD V8 puts out better power (the single turbo is not close), and that might actually be comparable in fuel efficiency. This is, of course, leaving aside Toyota’s total disinterest in sending any of its diesels to the US.

For whatever reason, Toyota is planning on using the 5.0 v8 Cummins for the (eventual) North American diesel Tundra. This is the same engine that Nissan is putting into the new Titan, and it has pretty serious power for a light truck (300hp/550lb ft); but, it's difficult to find any MPG estimates. Nissan is also teasing that the new Frontier may be offered with the 2.8l Cummins diesel.

Point is, I'm disappointed that Toyota is not more on-the-ball here. Because of my job, I’ve driven every model of newer, 1-ton and lighter, 4x4 truck in the last two years, putting at least 1,000 miles of mixed driving on each of them (highway, off-road, and city) and I have a pretty good idea of what's out there. The only model I haven’t driven is the Nissan Frontier, which, whatever.

So, the two big questions:

If you are considering a new truck in the next couple years, what are you leaning toward?

What powertrains are we looking at for swap candidates in the coming years? I, for one, would like my old Yota to be viable for another couple decades, and hitting 30 mpg seems like a good target.

Now, one last thing—a bit of a rant:


I live close to the Mexican border and in a Mexican neighborhood, and I occasionally see diesel trucks that are not available here: the Hilux, VW Amarok, Mitsubishi, and some variation of Nissan compact truck. This drives me nuts (argh!).


I wonder sometimes if the US market is simply f’d up by people’s apparent need for huge engines that are full of sound and fury and signifying nothing except the rare hauling of a boat. Mind you, I haul crap all of the time, and sometimes as much as seven or eight tons. The F250 diesel is great at this with its ridiculous 900 lb ft of torque. But at home, I don’t need that. I don’t own a ranch or a farm. I don’t own a 12,000 lb boat. I need a compact-ish truck with great MPG, good low-end power that caul haul three tons without too much effort, and credible off-road specs. Why does Mexico get that and the US does not? Why?!

The Tick

Totally agree. I currently have my totaled (because of an engine fire. Perfect, right?) 1st gen. 4Runner sitting at home and I am throwing around the idea of a 4bt swap because I have fallen in love with my 5.9L Cummins, but I agree with everything you have said. The first company to release a 1/2 ton diesel with good MPG's, I'm selling my Ram 2500 and buying one in a heartbeat if it is any good.

Rowdydudeman

I am waiting to hear from a local owner of a mercedes 300 turbo, the car is junk but the motor is absolutely perfect... I have no need for a giant truck that gets 10mpg, my first gen works perfectly fine, but needs more torque at times. Im very much hoping this will work out, turbo diesels (especially "dumb" diesels) are so bullet proof, i wont be sacrificing the reliability of my 22r but WILL gain a decent boost (literally) in mpg and torque.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I do not know about the diesel for the Tundra's but for their smaller trucks and cars, Toyota is way ahead in the diesel world in other countries. Our wonderful rules on emissions is what keeps them out of the US. From what I understand the reason Cummins may be providing the motors for the Tundra is Cummins understands what it takes to pass emissions.

From what I understand, the 3/4 BT is a great motor but is too heavy for the smaller trucks and not suggested for the solid axles trucks as well. I would think a Cummins would be far heavier then the BT motors. I want a diesel also.

For the smaller trucks, most seem to want the Mercedes OM617 or the VW TDI motor.

donomite49

i'm thinking about a lightly modded TDI with 200hp 350ftlbs and 30 mpg
they are as light as a 22r

dromomaniac

I don't know a ton about the 0m617, except that it's old and slow in a Mercedes and legendary for its durability.

The VW 2.0 liter TDs are a real option. However, I don't know enough about these engines to be confident. Here's why: the 2.0 TD puts out numbers that look just about perfect for the old Yota's, but is it intended to haul the weight of the Yota (and cargo)? What I mean is, the 2.0 might be reliable under the work conditions of a Golf, but will it end up running at higher revs much more often in the context of a DD 4x4? I'm honestly not sure, but I would guess so.

What I like about the a630 is that it is a real truck engine that is efficient enough to be economically feasible for a long while. But forgetting about that engine, there should be plenty of other choices coming along over the next couple years. All other things being equal, I'd take the a630 over either of the engines mentioned above because it's designed for a truck's weight, usage, and even relatively poor aerodynamics.

In the end, there are different reasons to do a swap. If your rig is primarily for the trails, its going to have different needs than an expedition rig, a DD, or a work truck. The 0m617, I think, would be a pretty great trail engine, and maybe a good light-duty work engine. I can imagine it sucking as a long-range expedition engine, or for hauling around serious fabrication equipment.

The whole subject of (the lack of) diesels in the US seems unsettled. I don't think that emissions totally account for it. If Toyota wanted, I'm sure they could whip out a compliant mid-displacement diesel for the American market. Emissions are a major factor, but I strongly suspect that there is more to it. Namely, the particulars of the American market: relatively cheap fuel means truck owners are more likely to opt for big ass diesels (which, you know, get just as good MPG as our old Toyota as engines); The US is covered in lots of long, wide, and straight roads and Americans are less likely to opt for a slower vehicle that features tighter handling and better urban MPGs. THen there's the whole HP as status thing...

Bdrforester

A friend if mine not to long ago did a VW 1.9TDI swap late 90's, maybe a 98 if memory serves me. And it could be a sweeter rig. He found an adapter kit to make it a little easier on himself. I'll ask him for pics and any issues that he found. I also used to own a 1.9TDI race car and couldn't have been more proud of it you can soup these motors up with very little effort and they can definitely handle the load of the truck. Changing the injectors and adding a larger exhaust helped dramatically but when we added a simple chip swap (around 250-300$) it really made power. We were pushing somewhere in the 200s for torque and around the 120ish range HP. and that's not really getting into the mods that can be done for very little.

Bdrforester

Sorry COULDN'T be a sweeter rig. Stupid autocorrect.

mike1202002

iTrader: (1)

I know someone who worked for cummins a few years ago. They volunteered to go on a team out to Las Vegas to test the 5.0 cummins in a dodge 1500. They tested it for a week no load and pulling a load. When it came to the grapevine and pulling a load dodge didn't have a transmission that could hold up to the 5.0 cummins.

So if it couldn't hold up to 550 ft lbs of torque I would be scared of 420 ft lbs of torque and their automatic. I'm sure if a guy wanted to out a tuner to it that 420 could go to close 450+ pretty quickly. Same old song and dance dodge still doesn't have a transmission to stand up behind and a diesel unless it's a manual. I doubt they would ever offer a manual in a 1500 diesel.