now im confused

hmmmmm. Interesting....

Russell - you should definitely come. First - your statement is not valid unless it's factual - and you just presume that this was the guy.

Second - the deputy will be there. If the guy is drinking and driving, he'll be arrested and that's the end of it.

Lastly - this guy can obviously raise enough of a stink to get people to consider closing the trail, which is, by your accounts one of your favorites...

ok i will send the emial. All the guys that were planning on running it this week are the same people that went when the guy was there with the exception of 3 people. It sounds like the guy...He had a white newer chevy truck that was stock and had a pipe style rack on it?

I will send the email when i get home forsure. I will also call and see if the other people we went with have pictures of the guy. My friend was running my camera and i made a comment to him about shooting some pics of the guys truck and him but he said he "wasnt about to try and get a pic of the bipolar drunk"

Just remember - keep it to the FACTS. Not your opinion or conjecture. No "guesses". Just straight up what you saw and heard personally - not hearsay from others.

You saw him brandish a weapon.
You saw a lot of beer cans in the back of the truck.
(you do not know whether he was drunk, though, so don't say that)

about to send this email and was wondering if anyones up to run it by them. Id like to hear some opinions on it.

Sent it. Molly check PM. writing that I feel a bit relieved of the anger i had built up for the guy. I was upset that he was intoxicated and waving his gun around like he was. I was almost positive someone was getting shot. I even talked to my uncle about getting my wepons permit just to carry while i 4wheel.

I got it Russel, and it was perfect! Should we post it up here too? (like I did?) I know Some don't want this to be a big deal - and I don't think it is - but the more evidence we have in the open that we did everything in our power to make things right is good!

Hey if you do go sat - we are meeting at your house to air up and check fluids dammit! *grin*

you can post it if you want. I got a reply from the deputy i will post or forward to you if you want. he requested my full name,licence# adress. I just hope that for some strange reason that if they do anything they contact me first. I have had my licence revoked before with no warning over old tickets and it turns in to a huge deal. If they contact me i will come in and take care of whatever. I cant risk another ticket for something stupid

Friend of mine sent me a link to this. I have been into this thing with both feet here lately. The locals, HAGGERTY included have been trying to cause problems with ALLENSPARK ATV RENTALS. Trying both to shut him down and close the trail. Haggerty has blamed the ATV's and JEEPS for the damage who ever happen to be around at the time. I went to a meeting at the firehouse 2 weeks ago FRIDAY. The county is trying their best to shut down the rentals. The locals shutting both down, the rentals and the trail access. They seem to think this is ALLENSPARK FORREST not NATIONAL FORREST LAND. There was a POLL last week in the DAILY CAMERA that asked 3 questions
should rentals be allowed on local forrest

should guide be required?

should not be allowed at all. :ban:

I came across the poll in the morning and the NOs were at over 120, yes votes at just over 20. I got on several ATV FORUMS and some local clubs and a jeep site. We had them beat by well over 300 + to 144 by that evening when they shut the poll down.

I ran into HAGGERTY at the meeting , he was complaining about damage to 12 trees, by the time I talked to him sunday it had changed to 9 trees and finially 4 and one was dead already. He told me about the fence and that he understood what had happened by looking at the snow, nothing about talking to anyone. After we talked to him at the gate to his ground for 15-20 minutes he said he was understanding better about what had happened and all was well. The guy is not to be trusted he is trouble, that best be stoped now! Yes that is him WHITE PU with the rack. He lives in first place just west of the school house as you come in the driveway.

Couple of the reporters that I talked to both at meeting and in a phone call or e-mail to them were pretty decent about whole thing. They didn't like what they had heard at the meeting. I am going rideing there SUNDAY, but with as important as this is if you all don't care I'd like be there also tomorrow. :grouphug:

Do a GOOGLE search for ALLENSPARK ATV RENTALS you will find several newspaper articles. Most are just copies of what the others had written. The guy from TIMES CALL is a real joke, talked to him on phone we had a few words. The guy from DAILY CAMERA and another one I forget, where pretty good.

The FS guy is open on the whole thing they have no complaints it is all HAGGERTY and the OLD COOTS at ALLENSPARK.

I don't find any issues with you being there COB. Just know we are there to help and keep it low key...

TJ no problem with that. Just want to keep track of what is going on. Have a 06 red 800 polaris.

Heres what i got as a reply. Molly if you still have what i sent please post it up.

Mr. G********,



I thank you for the information, which you have provided. It is undetermined if this relates to the case (BCSO #07-1624) I am currently involved with. I will include your written narrative into the hard copy of the case file. I will also make an attempt to confirm the information with any associated parties.



If I may provide you with a word of caution and advice, anytime a confrontational situation escalates to this degree and a weapon is involved I suggest that you notify the responsible law enforcement agency immediately. I recognize that your intentions were with no malice but the end result for those involved could have been tragic.



The situation up on Bounce School Road is precariously building in complexity. The Boulder County Sheriff’s Office intends to effectively manage and prioritize this situation before any more issues can arise. We appreciate your responsible involvement with the many environmental and social concerns that exist.



I would appreciate it if you could provide me with some further information about yourself. This will enable me to enter your statement into the case file with better accuracy. If agreeable please provide me:



Full legal name

Date of Birth

Drivers License # and State

Home address

Contact phone number

***I replyed with the info requested.*****

I wish the best of luck to everyone tomorrow, keep those of us who cant come informed, and I just wish I could do more to help out.

Here is the statement that VWfast60 sent the Deputy:

Dear Deputy *******,

I was writing you to talk about the Bunce School house road trail. i have run this trail as long as i could drive. I think out of every trail i have run it is my favorite. Over the years I havent noticed too much of a change. I recently found out that other trails connect and start on or around that area. I try to run the trail once a week and If i ever see anything out of place i do my part to correct it. Im writing you because a few of my friends and even my grandmother told me there are a few issues with the trail. Im told that the owner of the private property is getting upset because of people going off trail and damaging his property. I had the chance to meet someone that claimed to be the owner on a group trip we went on last month.I believe the date was 3/11/06 from what i remember. I am writing you to tell you about what happened on that day to let you know what we encountered on our trip.

We met up at my house at noon. Before each run i offer up my house to let everyone check fluids,air up tires,pack,and just get everyone on the same page for the run were about to make. We grabbed a bite to eat and headed up. We reached the trails parking lot at about 1:00 maybe 1:15 and stopped to get everyone together,air down. Within about 5 minutes we headed down the trail.there was a lot of snow in spots and some areas were difficult to pass for the stock 4runner that came with us but we made it through the first set of difficult spots. I was leading and came up to a dry area right before the private property. I was a ways ahead and saw a stock Chevy truck with a utility rack on it sitting there with a guy in the drivers seat hanging his legs out. He kept peeking around the door to see us. I pulled over to talk to him and see if he needed help getting out because we had winches and straps. As we pull closer the guy waves and raises his beer to us being friendly. We pulled over and talked.
The guy seemed nice and told me and my passenger that he was the owner of the private property. I never had met the owner or heard anything about them so i have no reason to believe hes not. After reading the paper that would make his name Mike Haggerty. He said he got there at 8am and from the looks of his truck bed id say drinking budwiseer all day.He told us that he was fed up with damage and would like us to stay on trail and becareful because it was still snowy. We agreed and told him that we were by no means there to ruin his land and that we are quick to even pick up after those who have cause damage. He went on to tell us that he has had problems before and wont be putting up with anything and patted his hip. On his hip was a handgun of somekind. Im not a gun person and couldnt tell you what type or size it was. At that point we all kinda looked at eachother thinking this guys nuts lets go. We continued to be stopped shortly by a 15foot or so snow drift.

We turned around and came back to find the white chevy stuck in the snow. Another person was winching him out. We stop to offer help and the aid of another winch,shovels anything we could. He said they had it under control and thanked us for the offer. While standing there i see another trail marker.I asked if that was a trail that we could run.He said yes and that it was a fun trail and recomended we give it a try. I asked him if the road that was to the right of us was one to drive on to get to it because it looke like there were 2. He was blocking the other one but we could cut over to that trail and either run the trail i was talking about or go around his stuck truck. He told us yea and went back to working the stuck truck out. We got in our trucks and headed down the other trail I was the last one in the group this time and in my truck was maybe 4 to 10 feet from him tops. He said nothing to us as we left just waved as we got to the other trail.

It was late and we chose not to run the 2nd trail and just head home. as we get closer to the parking area we are stopped because of a group of jeeps that were stuck. I believe 2 were stuck and the others were either waiting helping. One guy broke an axle trying to get a jeep out and parked it off on the side of the trail. Were all on the down hill side and i see the blazer that was pulling out the Claimed land owners truck and the land owner pulling up behind us. The land owner gets out and walks up to us as we wait for the jeep to get unstuck and starts yelling at us for going off trail and sayin how "˟˟˟˟ up that was" and how it was "not cool what we did". I was kinda puzzled by this and asked what did we do. They told us at that point that we had crossed over on a trail that was not a real trail. they said it was an off trail route. I explained that i asked before we went on that and he said it was a trail and said we could go to the other trail or around on it. The issue was dropped right there. I was told by the guy in the blazer that this guy is fired up about off trail driving and that he had all of our pictures. I remembered him taking pics but i didnt know why and figured it was for the same reason i do,Because i like 4wheeling and i like the outdoors.My friend/passenger brought up the point that he was not wearing his gun at the time we were talking to him but now had it on again.
Heres where the day went bad. the last jeep gets free and 2 of the trucks from our group go around and get through the snow.As the 3rd one went in and got stuck one of the jeep guys pulls off trail to let the rest by. He parked in a clear area not to harm any plants. As he pulled off trail the claimed land owner grabs his gun and runs twards the jeep owner yelling at him and screaming at him. Keep in mind theres about 4 kids under the age of 13 standing here. The jeep owner calmly explains he was making room for everyone to pass and if by chance he messed anything up was going to repair it. The guy even was grabbing his shovel as he walked from his jeep. The land owner was yelling at him for a while and the jeep driver kept explaing to him what he was doing and that he was sorry if he caused damage. The jeep owner starts shoveling some rocks that fell out on to the trail as he was pulling off. He put them back on the edge where they came from. The land owner grabs a shovel and starts helping. We thought at this point the fight is over and we wont see anymore of his gun.We were wrong.


AS they are shoveling the land owner starts yelling at the guy again and the fight resumes. The land owner walks to his truck and throws his shovel in the back screaming "If thats how you want it fine,We can handle it like that" He grabs a camera from his truck and starts taking pictures of my truck (On trail ready to go through the snow) and the guys jeep and anything else he could get a clear shot of there plate. He walks back over to the guy again pulling his gun. A guy from the jeep group goes over and gets between them again and calms them down. At this point the snow was clear and i pulled one the jeep guys aside and told him he might want to grab the kids and bring them down to the rest of the group cause the guy was drunk and it wasnt going to stop easy. I jump in the truck and leave. We suggested they just pack up and go so the fight didnt get bigger. the land owner was drunk and waving the gun around and hes not on his private property. I never once saw him on it either.

After reading about this in the papers and on a few forums i thought it would be a good idea to write you and talk to you about this. It sounds like all the negitive stuff is being put on the people that 4wheel in that area. What is his responsability with that gun on the forests land. Is it lawful for him to carry that wepon in the open and use it to threaten and scare people when he is not on his land and is not using it to protect his land. There was no harm done that day to the land or surrounding areas and i saw a person pull a gun. Needless to say I feel that safety was a huge issue that day. Not only for myself and the people around me but anyone that was on the trail that day. The person claiming to own the land near where we met him and where all of this took place was intoxicated,and waving a firearm around like it was a toy. the children that were there were clearly scared and so were all of the adults.


Thank you for reading I hear that some of the offroad groups are setting up a clean up for this weekend. My frineds and i were thinking about running a trail in the afternoon but Im going to make an attempt to make the clean up at Bunce. I had a pretty full day planned but if i can get out of a few plans i will be there forsure. I just heard about all of this today so its kind of short notice but i will do what i can to show my support for the property owner and the trail. Are you going to be there and do you know anything about this. If so what should i bring? I planned on bringing big trashabags,a few shovels, and basic yard tools. I really dont have much for this but will bring what i can and if need be pick something up on my way.

Was good see you all show up. It was kind of lonely by myself with two sheriff deputy a FS guy and land owner. Then have them ask what am I doing taking pics.

Well anyway the sheriff deputys and FS guy were really friendly, they are worried about their image and what we think of them. I would give them a thumbs up they were just trying to do their job best way they know how. Said thier main concern was stoping the situation from getting out of hand before it all goes any farther. From what I seen this damage thing has been all blown out of perportion. It is nothing other than an excuse to raise trouble. I took pics of the what is laughingly called a fence, to each his own I guess.

We always have that certain group that feels they can do any thing and go any where and destroy anything that don't belong to them. Then there are the others like the fine folks here that worry about getting a bad rap for some thing that wasn't done on purpose and are willing to help repair the damage. Hard when you have someone with a bad attitude that is intent on causeing problems, not really interested in listening to reason.

Yes there are a few places that ppl have made their own trails and make the rest look bad, but over all the area is clean it looks good and is pretty good shape. Plenty of trails and room for everyone of us to enjoy the area in our own way. Though that seems to be hard for some to understand.

It was good to see you up there as well COB! Kinda crazy that we all got called up there only tohave the landowner say the ground is too frozen to do anything - I wish he would have checked that earlier in the week... :think:

But here are some fun pics we took after we went and ran the trail anyway....

(All of them are here) http://cottora.shutterfly.com/action/?a=8AbNWLJszZOGZE

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...108AbNWLJszZOA

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...108AbNWLJszZOA

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...108AbNWLJszZOA

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...108AbNWLJszZOA

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...108AbNWLJszZOA

no way the snow melted?

Pretty much - I mean there was still some snow but Troy and I ran most of the trail in 2WD in Tippy. Crazy how much it changed since you were on it with us Blake. Of course the seasonal gate 4 miles in still isn't open, and from what I understand that is where BSR really starts... so I will be curious to run that when they do open the gates.