jungle_runner

got all packed up for my trip, turned the ignition and *click*, but the engine didn't turn

based on what i've been reading on the boards it does seam to be starter related. i found some good resources for starter maintenance, which i'll re-post here:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/starter/
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml

but, no one has mentioned a faint electrical squealing sound after the click. it sounds like the starter is getting juice but the starter motor isn't turning

when i first looked at the starter, the small plastic clip wire that plugs into the solenoid was unplugged ... i thought "great, this is a simple fix" ... but after plugging the wire back in, still the *click*

upon inspecting the plastic clip of the small wire, i saw that a lot of gunk was on the contact and in the clip, it looked like it had been unplugged for a long time ... could this be possible? i then cleaned the contacts of the small wire, and tried again ... after a while i noticed the electrical squealing noise, not sure if it was there from the beginning

a friend told me that a ring in the solenoid can get stuck and that giving it a firm tap with a hammer may dislodge it so that the starter motor will turn ... that didn't work

anyhow, i would like to avoid pulling the starter, but if no other solutions arise, then that's what i must do

hope the links posted above help some folks out and hope someone has some insight about the faint squeal

thanks

ahickman

Just finished rebuilding the starter on my 94 Runner. Started as an intermittent problem where I would turn the key and "click", but the starter did not energize. A rap or two with a hammer and it would turn over. About a week later, the hammer trick failed to work so I took off the starter and rebuilt it. In my case there was a lot of corrosion build up between contacts as well as causing a dead short. Guess the last rap of the hammer dislodged the conductive crud and shorted the stator out.

Anyhow, you most likely need to replace the brass contacts shown in the link you provided. I used his "how-to" and found it to be right on the money. BTW, how many miles do you have on your starter?

jungle_runner

ahickman, thanks for the insight. i'd have to guess that the starter is stock, i bought the truck about 2 years ago. it's got 190,000 miles on it.

hmmm ... no one has ever noticed a faint squeal after the *click* ... i would guess someone has noticed that before

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Do the simple voltage test described below at the small solenoid control wire (test must be done with that wire connected, i.e. under load, to be valid):
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...shtml#EasyTest

jungle_runner

the contacts didn't look too bad, but replaced them since i had it open ... only took about 15 minutes to get the starter out, i picked up the foot and a half ratchet extension before beginning work

first pick is of the parts, 28226-72010 is for the positive (battery side) and 28226-74070 is for the negative side. just a slight difference in the curve. The contacts in the starter don't seem to be stock, they look better. anyone know where to get those?


i didn't bother swapping out the negative terminal because it looks pretty good and it's got that soldered plate sandwiched in, i didn't want to accidentally break it, so i let it be.


funny ... anyone else find a penny in their starter? i'm the third owner

jungle_runner

how am i supposed to turn the key and look at the voltage ... i live alone up in the mountains ... could video tape the meter i guess

so what's the next thing to replace or rebuld? ignition coil?

oh by the way ... i've read the threads about hilifts on here .. my hilift let go today ... while i was cranking up the front, the teeth let go or something and the handle slid down the whole ladder ... and later the truck started sliding sideways in the dirt and kicked the hilift out to the side ... i just got back so that gravity could do it's thing ... the jack stands under the truck caught it and held ... be careful with hilifts! ... read the threads about 'em!

jungle_runner

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...l#OtherOptions

keep reading ... duh

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Looks like my type D contact:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...tactDimensions

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Make up a little test jig like I show on the web page:


Then you could either make the one leg for the meter to connect to long enough to put the meter up on the fender or something like that.

jungle_runner

that makes sense ... i can make a long leg that will reach to the driver's side fender for the red lead ... can i ground the black lead somewhere on the driver's side? ... any non painted bolt should work right?

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Yes, any ground point should be fine. Since the starter is grounded by being bolted to the engine block which is in turn connected to the battery "-" terminal via ground straps, then any bare metal likewise tied to ground should be fine. Only time this would not work is if your problem is related to a bad ground strap connection, but that is not likely.

jungle_runner

that's good information to know ... thanks ...

anyone know if there is a specific fuse for the starter or ignition switch?

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Only the main fusible links that connect the battery and the fuse box up front. If those are blown, having the starter clicking would be unlikely (you would have no power to anything!).

jungle_runner

i've read on the forms that you can bridge the starter relay

mine (88 4runner) is the silver cube bolted to the inside of the passenger fender

i'm going to try to pry open the silver cap and bridge it. my truck is in a place where it shouldn't be parked, i got to get it back in the driveway (pushing up the steep hill is not an option, i've got to shift into low gear just to get into my driveway)

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

This is what you want to do:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...l#OtherOptions

jungle_runner

I've read through that ... i've got to find some wire so that i can do more tests ... i can say that the relay did not click when i held it while turning they key (that was a long stretch) ... it was unbolted from the frame ... will that make a difference?

After finding that the starter relay didn't click, i pried open the tabs to remove the silver top, which only gave me access to four wires, two black and two white ... i tried bridging those but no combination of any two wires did anything

From your site: "Check the coil resistance and see if the contacts have continuity when the relay is energized." The coil is the cylinder on the drivers side that has a thick wire to the distributor cap, right? What does it mean "contacts have continuity"?

From your site: "Make sure any neutral-start or clutch-cancel circuits are working and adjusted properly." Is the physical clutch and the clutch-cancel button connected to the same circuit? Where is this circuit?

Is there a way to bypass everything to temporarily jump start it electrically (pushing is not an option) so that i can get it out of the way?

Many Thanks

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Coil in the starter relay, that is what magnetizes the relay and causes it to close the actual contacts that complete the electrical circuit. Continuity means current can flow, 0 ohms resistance, etc. And yes there is a neutral start switch on the transmission and then the clutch cancel switch and it's associated relay Look in a Factory Service Manual for the phyisical location and test procedure.

jungle_runner

ah haaa ... if the clutch cancel button and the clutch pedal have two different circuits then it's likely to not be either, because i've tried both and neither work ... so i think i can rule that out

so what does it mean that the starter relay does not click when i'm holding it and turning the ignition key?

my neighbors from up the hill were just out for a walk and i asked them to listen while i turned the key ... they pointed to the area behind and under the intake ... that's where the starter is ... it's squealing ... very faint ...

it must not be getting enough juice or something inside of it has gone awry

voltage check at the starter will be the next test

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Neutral start stops starter from working unless you are in neutral and the clutch cancel switch overrides that, so while two separate things, they both work together.

If the starter (or any) relay does not click when power is applied means that the coil inside is probably fried. That is if no current flows. no magnetic field is generated and thus the contacts inside never close (that is what makes the click). No click = no contact = no start.

You are probably heaving the hissing/squealing should from the fuel pressure regulator. It is under the intake on the passenger side, just above the starter. Fuel pump is running when you try to start the engine.

jungle_runner

Ah... man, you're very knowledgeable! Thanks! Here's a photo of the starter relay location and the starter relay bottom pulled out, should I just yank on the wires to get the metal cap off so i can see the coil inside?

The squealing ... awesome, so that's probably just the fuel pump.