Yet another SuperCharger question 2004 4Runner- How to safely?
 

I have an '04 4.7L V8 4Runner LTD. You know, the one that will blow the pistons through the hood and explode your gas tank and cause the tires to fall off the rims, or something to that effect if you install the SC :)

Here's the thing. I have read that TRD/Toyota pulled the SC off the market because ">6psi boost without fuel management and with cold air intake will run too lean and the piston rods are too weak to run in this condition" (?)

At least, that's the gist of what I *think* I read. Does this sound right?

At the same time, I read about people who had the kits before the problems were found and just added proper fuel management and were okay, and I think someone on here had one he thought was okay and ended up with a blown motor (?) Not sure if it was related to the SC, though.

My question is, if you can put a SC on a Hyundai car, then why can't my super 4Runner handle it?

More specifically, has anyone worked out the issues so this can be done reliably, albeit with the extra effort of FMUs, calibration, etc?

Can I use the '04 4.7L Tundra SC kits?

I am currently completely stock engine components and plan on keeping the 4Runner forever. I tow a lot and highway a lot (>500 miles on avg per week recently, but very little towing) and would *like* more torque throughout the range.

HP is nice, but torque at highway speeds is more important. IMHO, HP is a fictitious animal that can be manipulated mathematically to show higher numbers in conditions you don't really use or care about. Give me torque and HP will take care of itself :)

My 4Runner has to work a lot harder to maintain highway speeds 50-65, and A LOT harder to maintain 60-75 with any type of load. I would rather use less throttle/RPMs than going from about 1/2 throttle to about 3/4 throttle to maintain speed, especially up reasonable hills.

* We just put a SC on my buddy's Chevy truck last night. It was a PIA, but that is usually the case. Nothing grinders, torches and tools can't fix :) He has a snow plow bracket on front. Of the 5 of us, 2 are professional mechanics, 2 are very experienced, and I'm the least of us. So we should be able to implement whatever you guys have found. But I'm not tearing the motor down, that would be foolish.

Thanks for any help. I know you guys are really sharp and EXPERIENCED, which is the key.

I really want to upgrade my 4Runner to a 5Runner :) :)

-DiskDoctr

If you gonna keep your babe forever, don't SC it..IMHO. But you could do basic mod...ie. performance Header, Air intake and cat-back system. It will gives you extra few HP. I can't hurts your engine.

Nobody? No motorheads out there figure this thing out yet?

I'd hate to think my buddies were right when they said to get a Chevy Truck :pat:

C'mon guys, we need to get some power into these things :)

Thanks.

-DiskDoctr

so far i am running the TRD S/C and everything else stock. i dont go into boost much as i dont need it. big difference in sounds and feel when it goes into positive boost.

when im in boost, it seems like im burning out my stock cats. because it smells like rotten eggs after a boosted run.

i hope my 4runner will last. i have the s/c for towing applications as well.

Welcome!

Thanks for the reply. What year is your 4Runner, and is it V6 or V8? The '04 V8 has weaker rods and that is my biggest concern.

How much boost are you running?

-DiskDoctr

DiscDoctr,
Do you have a 4x4 or 4x2? If 4x2 and you need better towing performance, have you considers swapping gears for 4.33s or 4.56s?

I have an '04 V8 4WD Limited. I have full-time AWD, 4Hi/4Lo.

Don't know anything about switching gears. Hard to do?

Thanks.

-DD

I hate to say it, but you'd be much better off getting a late 90's / early 00's Cummins Dodge (and quite frankly, you might be able to find one for the same price of supercharging your 4Runner). Those things will pull anything, especially with the 24V engine :woo: , and get 17mpg doing it. That way you can just keep the 4Runner nice and purty with an intact engine...

That being said, for FI the first thing that needs to be investigated is can you get larger injectors and the like for your V-8 (or can you adapt a port fueling system in somewhere). The biggest hurdle will be to find out how to get more fuel into the engine to keep up with the S/C. After that, plugging in an FTC would be relatively straight-forward, and tuning could be done if you got a wideband oxygen sensor package. Also, would the transmission keep up? I don't know, but could be expensive to replace if it can't. If you REALLY want to supercharge call up URD and see what they think. Anything's theoretically possible, it's just a matter of money and persistence (AND most importantly being able to pay for a new engine if something goes horribly, horribly wrong).

There are currently no gears available for the front diff, so since you're 4x4 the gear swap is out, for now.

I'm surprised Mike didn't give you our link. There's an ongoing discussion thread on re-gearing the 4th gen 4Runner. It's here http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=419

There's a lot of us that are just waiting for these gears to arrive, as we want to re-gear as well as install lockers.

I think also, as someone else pointed out, if you're going to keep your 4Runner forever, don't SC it. Re-gear, headers, exhaust, chip, etc....

Just my 2 cents.................

Update- found s/c- Split Second?
 

Thanks to everyone so far on these questions.

Here is an update. I found a TRD '03 4.7L supercharger.

Speaking with TRD, it should be fine with the '04, except for the piggyback ECU, which has to have the 04 map in it instead of the 03 map.

I am trying to find one, or another solution. I have asked over at T4R, too (I know some of you are there, too)

I am trying to find the right TRD ECU or map, which can be burnt to the 03 ECU, and am reading lots about the Split Second systems that URD sells.

I have also read a bunch of Gadget's info on s/c and TRDs. Didn't know he was the URD guru until yesterday (read that somewhere, too).

At this point, I am wondering if the SS is actually better than the TRD unit?

I am not looking for insane power, as this is my daily driver. I want more power for towing, and to step up and smooth out the power on acceleration.

I hardly ever floor it, since the transmission goes into spasms trying to decide which gear to use and second guessing if I really should be allowed to accelerate, or if the VSC/"no go" feature should override the driver :(

So, I'm not looking to make it a racing machine. Would the URD still be the ticket, and which model would be best?

PS- I am not one of those people with too much $$ in my pocket that I'm just looking to spend it, either. If it is important and substantially beneficial, okay. If borderline... maybe...

Thanks!

-DiskDoctr

For people with the TRD supercharger for the 4.7 I normally recommend the URD AIC/Timing Calibrator. It will control the extra injector(s) on your supercharger and allow you to adjust the ignition timing to control any boost induced spark knock.

The big advantage is that you have the ability to tune it to your needs and are not stuck with some cookie cutter program that you can not adjust.

Keeping in mind that there were only a few hundred of those superchargers that made it out to the public, we ship a good many of our AIC/Timing Calibrators for that application.

Gadget

Of the UZ family, the 2UZ is the weakest build aside from its iron block.

It is a 2 bolt main with weaker rods than both the 1UZ and 3UZ.

Might want to check out what happened to this guy who SC'ed.

http://www.lextreme.com/tundra.html

ouch, but that guy was also running 100-125 shots of NOS, which also could contribute

Yeah. Statistically the 2UZ is the weakest of the UZ series.

The 1UZ and 3UZ both have 6 bolt mains, whereas the 2UZ has a 2bolt main.

Rod strength in order is: 1UZ, 3UZ, 2UZ.

The list goes on. If you're really interested, here's a comparison:

http://www.lextreme.com/rods.html

From all the good sources of info (I've read everything I could find, some of it with a grain of salt), and the surrounding circumstances of the problems ("overdone" enhancements, early problems in the designs, etc), here's what I've come up with.

Weaker rods? Yep. Flimsy rods? Nope. Safely handle normal TRD supercharging? Depends...

Depends on a couple of things, but main problems are timing and fuel (predetonation, lean condition, low octane, to name the majors).

If you just think about what "pre-detonation" is, one can immediately realize that it is an engine killer.

Lean conditions also mean too much heat (yep, that's bad :) )

The solution that I've discussed with URD gets the thumbs up from the logical point and any of the smart guys I've run it by: URD AIC/Timing Calibrator, with wideband O2 sensor.

It controls the fuel to prevent lean, and adjusts both fuel and timing based upon the instantaneous engine state and performance, fuel (quality and burn rate- includes knocking), and enhanced by using a wideband O2 sensor input rather than a simple binary advance-retard state of normal O2 sensors.

How to use the modules from URD? I have no idea yet, but supposed to be pretty straightforward, and Brian is very helpful.

I have the s/c in hand, but have to wait a month or so to install due to some health issues.

I am expecting to post progress and info along the way, in case anyone is interested in following the project.

I don't speak as an expert on engines. I work mostly with research and development. I didn't take this project on lightly and tried to research as much as possible, but will certainly yield to those who know much more than I do.

I've also gotten great input from others on this site, including RXVedub. Thanks to all!

-DiskDoctr

Finally! Supercharging in a few weeks!
 

Okay, okay. I know this thread is old, but since I'm paying off the 4runner this month, I am going to install the S/C.

The good news is that URD now has the MAP-ECU2, which should simplify things :)

It's going into the shop Thurs for the tranny flush and filter (screen) change. Replacing with the same World Standard fluid.

I considered the valve body upgrade, but watching the $$, so figured I'll wait and see how it holds up. I'm not planning on drag racing or anything :)

I also have the new timing belt and water pump in the garage, waiting to put them in during the S/C install.

Gonna borrow a power washer with degreaser to clean up the engine before the upgrade. It normally gets washed every time it rains. How well depends how deep the water puddles are! :)

I also ordered a set of Air lift helper springs (airbags for inside the rear coils). I hope it doesn't interfere with the X-REAS. I plan of having them at the 5-7 minimum PSI most of the time, then pump up when hauling the trailer heavy.

Any suggestions while I have it apart? Heard that should replace the front crank seals, too, but that depends if my Toyota mechanic buddy is coming to help.

I'm also considering replacing the Y-pipe restriction in the exhaust and turning the end pipe out the side.

Thoughts on modifying the intake? Some say NA isn't worth it, but since I'll be forced induction, how much (if any?) difference should it make?

Also gonna replace the plugs, since I'm just over 101k.

I like my truck. I like driving it, not working on it. I don't mind, and do most of my own work (except the tranny flush), but I'd rather be behind the wheel, or next to the fire with the radio playing and the mountain pies cooking! :)

-DiskDoctor

Installation of MapECU2 addon computer
 

Hey all!

While installing the MapECU2 from Performance Motor Research (purchased from URD), I took a bunch of pics and made a writeup that you may find interesting.

It is quite long, so I hosted it on my site: http://www.diskdoctor.us/me2_index.html

Comments and suggestions are always welcome!

I will probably do something similar when installing the supercharger in the next week or two.

Enjoy!

- JC

PS- Can't post this at T4r.org, their user database is corrupt or something. Tried to contact moderators, but no response :( Oh well, guess they aren't interested in fixing it...

any updates?

Super old thread updates?
 

So diskdoctor, what happened with the swap?