Why do Toyota's Ping???
 

I have have owned 4 of Toyota's so far and they have all pinged, and I can't figure out why.

I have had an '84 Corolla with a little 1.6L 4cyl, and it would ping constantly, but lasted 250K, then I had a '90 Celica with a 2.2L, same deal, then moved to a '88 pickup with the 3VZE, and it would ping worse than the other two, and just recently got a '91 4Runner with the 3VZE, and same deal, pings like crazy.

My father has an '02 Tacoma and same exact thing, it pings all over.

This is with 87 Octane fuel.....do I really need to be running 89 or higher, does Toyota run a higher compression ratio???

I tried 89 in my 4Runner and the pinging decreased but it was still there.

What is the deal??

87 is the octane for all those vehicles you mentioned only a few of the higher end turbo sports cars need the 91.
It might be an issue with the quality/additive package of motor fuel in your area. or it could be that the mech. working on your vehicles has'nt got a clue [no offence if this is you lol].
I run 87 in mine all the time 360000+ and no problems with ping.

my 88 runner, 91 p'up and 89 celica (3sfe engine) do not ping at all. possibly the timing is a bit too advanced on yours'? depending on how severe the pinging and under what conditions it occurs, it may not affect the engine

try changing brands of fuel. just because the octane may be the same, they may not be the same. octane rating is an average of two numbers RON (research octane number) and MON (motor octane number). so one fuel can have a higher RON and lower MON and average the same as a lower RON / higher MON. more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

could just be noisy valves. That sounded a lot like pinging on my first 4runner.

i have a taco and it does the same thing...its just the valves, nothing to worry about

I don't know where you are but elevation may play a role in this. You may have less dense air if you're so far above sea level and it throws off the air/fuel ratio.

I have owned about a dozen Yotas, varying engines and models.
They ALL sounded the same whether they were new or used, I tried all brands and octanes of gas available here, although I always suspected its all the same anyways.
I've tried additives and checked everything......never made any difference and the always ran good otherwise.:bigok:

Valves huh, what part of them makes them noisy, actually slapping against the seats when they close, or the lifters? It sounds exactly the same between the 02 Taco and the '91 Runner, is that a known Toyota thing, never heard it on any other vehicle, at least not like this.

I tried using 89 Octane in the Runner, and I thought it decreased slightly, but it was still there.....of course that could have been in my imagination.

I guess the only way to rule out ping is to try 93 and see what happens, but I really shouldn't have to use 93 in a 3VZE or the Taco.

The Taco has done it since it was brand new, I took it to Toyota when it was under warranty and they couldn't find anything wrong with it, but they never mentioned anything about the valves.

fastkevman, you say you've had a doezen yotas and they all "pinged", or have had that noise that sounds like pinging? Well that makes me feel better, but I still hate that sound, but if it's not actually pinging then it's alright, I just hate the thought of my brand new pistons banging around in the cylinder.

Does Toyota actually do their own rebuilds at the dealer or are the sent out to a shop? Just a question that has been in my head?

Thanks.

the rocker arms are supposed to be adjusted every 50000 miles. they are what contacts the valve and makes them go down. as they start to wear they need to be adjusted back to stock clearance.

Yeah but the Taco has done it since it was brand new and the Runner was rebuilt by Toyota 8K miles ago.

Haven't hydraulic lifters done away with the rocker adjustments?

I commuted A LOT to different jobs.
Heres my list, with what vehicle it was, what it had and the mileage when purchased.
'86 Corolla / 4cyl auto / 200K
'86 4Runner / 4cyl auto / 140K
'87 Nova (Corolla) / 4cyl auto / 100K approx.
'88 Nova (Corolla) / 4cyl auto / 100K rebuilt by me
'93 Geo Prism (Corolla) / 4cyl 5spd / 80K
'93 Pickup / 6cyl 5spd / 60K----current ride
'95 Corolla / 4cyl auto / 120K rebuilt
'95 4Runner / 6cyl auto / 30K
'97 Corolla / 4cyl auto / bought new
'98 Tacoma / 6cyl 5spd / 34K
'01 Tacoma / 6cyl 5spd / bought new
'01 Camry / 6cyl auto / bought new
'02 RAV4 / 4cyl auto / bought new
I'm not counting a mud truck and two "enduro" style cellicas we toyed around with but, yes they sounded the same.

what is the pinging like?.. are you sure it is pinging? you may just be hearing the fuel injectors making that ticking noise.. which is normal.

Maybe you should try and get an audio of your pinging issue, so we could listen and see whats up...

Most likely if you have that many Toyota's pinging, something is wrong with the Yota;s and tune-ups like spark plugs, or maybe its a valve tick.

If you mean my list....I would find it hard to believe that 4 brand new cars had the same "problem".

I don't consider it a major issue, to me its more of a ticking sound, not pinging.

If it is more of a ticking sound it is the valves nothing tho really worry about just annoying is all. I use a product called Engine Restorer about every 3rd change and it seems to quiet things down a lot. FWIW

The Toyota dealers in my area(SoCal) DO NOT actually rebuild engines themselves...they'll swap heads and the like......they install ATK or similar(lousy) rebuilt units. I have an ATK 22RE with about 60K miles and I have serious doubts as to whether or not it'll make 70K. This after replacing front crank seal and other various surgeries. Be sure and ask where they're getting the engine from. You have been warned!!!

My '95 pinged since the day I drove it off the lot back when it was brand new. For about 200,000 miles premium was enough to stop it but then the radiator got a hole in it and it pinged even then until I fixed it and put on a new water pump. Now it's running fine -- as long as I put the $4.20 a gallon premium in it.

Maybe its you just hitting the rev limiter:)

Never heard a ping...but I do hear ticking...lol

Pinging is a predetonation problem. If you tried 89 octane and it seemed to not ping so much, than the ignition timing is too advanced. I have seen a lot of pinging Toyotas in my line of work. Most of the time the timing is not right. Sometimes it is more complicated than the timing. Sometimes carbon builds up in the combustion chambers effectively making them smaller and the compression ratio goes up enough to where even if the timing is within spec, it will still ping. Try a decarbonizing fuel additive like BG 44K (http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html) every now and then and make sure the timing is set properly and it shouldn't ping. As far as an 02 Tacoma pinging, it is highly unlikely. The OBDII computer is sophistocated enough to electronicly control the ignition timing. If an 02 actually did ping, the computer would see it as a knock and turn the engine light on.

and maybe it's not pinging at all, but injector 'ticking'.

If it is spark knock (predetonation) much can be cured by a set of wires, rotor cap and button and new NGK plugs.

Plus I absolutely love SeaFoam. Follow the directions - bring your engine up to running temp then slowly pour 1/3 through the break booster line (which feeds into the intake). Kill the engine, wait 5 min's and it will smoke like a freight train - but it will help remove some serious carbon deposits. Repeat 2x more times.

One can will cost less than 5 bucks and will produce noticeable results.

im pretty sure you may hear a pinging from time to time because of toyotas timing and or computer settings for better fuel economy

my toyota factory service manual says the 3VZE drinks 91....

My '90 4Runner pings unless I run 91 octane gas. It sucks with the gas prices now. I might run some of that BG44k and see if it helps.

Turn your sterio up louder :D :saw:

WOW!! I haven't checked in over the weekend, been working for 2 days straight, I get busy working on boats this time of year.

Anyway, I really appreciate all of the responses, most other sites you get one answer in 2 weeks.

As for the question of it is really ping....it is. I have been working on engines, all kinds, my whole life, went to school for it eventually and did it for a living for a long time, but it's too tough to get ahead and it beats you down, and there are easier ways to make more money.....but it's great sidework for me both marine and cars...mostly marine....anyway I find most of the experts are online in good forums like these, so that's why I ask and read around them.

I know ping and this is ping, and the '02 Taco is ping. I know valve noise, and injector noise and they are consistent and even, ping is all over the place in sound, no set rythm to it, and ping makes me cringe, like nails on a blackboard, and that's what I hear....oh man I hate it.

I've checked timing, I've changed plugs, wires, cap rotor...all the norms that anybody who knows and understands engines would do....didn't help.

As for the carbon build up theory, I completely agree, but as I mentioned this 3VZE was "rebuilt" by a dealer 8K ago, and I can only assume or hope, they cleaned the carbon up, and he Taco was new. I only bought this '91 Runner 1k miles ago and I called up Toyota with the VIN and they put me in touch with the dealer, I went over and talked with the service advisor, he showed me everything that had been done. I knew it had to have been rebuilt because of the head gasket recall, and it was, it had a knock due to headgasket failure and was "rebuilt", didn't get a block, just bored and new pistons, rings, bearings and injectors....never got an answer about the crank or heads.

I blew the block in my '88 due to the gaskets, and Toyota replaced the entire short block, but this wasn't the case here.

Anyway, sorry I'm rambling......but this forum is great, and I have had a couple of cold ones tonight after working for 2 days straight, can you blame me??.

I have had some Jeeps and a couple of Pathfinders, and even when I beat the hell out of them, I never heard a slight ping....this Runner pings just driving down the road normally. I doubt it's the rev limiter too, ha ha, we all know the 3slow aint hitting a rev limiter...this one pings anywhere from 1800RPM to about 3K.

As for the Seafoam and/or 44K, both great products by the way, I can't see carbon being my problem here with only 8K on it. Also watch out with pouring that Seafoam into your brake booster vacuum line, that carbon shooting off the top of the pistons and the rest of the combustion chamber will destroy your Cat when it runs out your exhaust. 44K is good, but the best I have found is Auto RX, that stuff is magic, but I am reluctant to run it through an newly rebuilt block.

So guys, thanks again for all of the responses, it's cool to have people who know what they are talking about write back to you.

I really would like to get the ping taken care of, but have also seen some stuff about this being common in Yota's....as has been mentioned here, it just kills me though to hear it.

I may have to run a tank of 93 and see what happens, I've never seen 91 around me here in NY.

Any other thoughts would be great, either a fix or a reason why Yota's seem to ping more than the rest.

Thanks,

Mike

P.S. Fastkevman.....That is a LOT of Yota's WOW....are they all yours??

Later!

fyi for others reading about this and have trouble differentiating "pinging" sounds: ping is easiest to hear under heavy load acceleration, like going uphill from a standstill. you'll hear that gurgling sound when you put your foot in the gas. valve and injector "tick" is consistent at idle. the ping gurgling is a deeper pitch than tick, but not as deep as engine "knock".

my past ping issues (with lexus ls400) would vary based on my brand of fuel. the lexus HAD to have premium fuel or it would ping. but even then i'd hear it a little, under heavy load acceleration, UNLESS i used chevron with techron. i believe it did improve significantly after i replaced the 02 sensors.

so maybe a different brand of gas for a while may help? plus we have this 10% ethanol crap now, think that adding to your ping problem?

how 'bout your timing? is it advanced too much? maybe you can back it off a degree or so and test drive?

all i can think of right now, good luck man

Well just filled up with a tank of 93 Octane and didn't hear any ping on the way home from work, so it looks like it was pre-igniton.

tj884Rdlx.....I was thinking the same thing, I am gonna check the timing this weekend, and see where it's at, even if it's correct I may back it off a degree or so and see what happens. You may be right, the factory timing may not ne right anymore with the 10% Ethanol fuel now, which by the way is actually closer to 25%, they just don't tell you that.

I just bought it, but the engine was re-built by Toyota 8K miles ago, so I just assumed timing couldn't be my problem, seeing as how everything was just re-done and set. They did the T-belt and put in new injectors at the same time as the rebuild also so.

Plus it seems to me like I always here Toyota's ping, like I said all of mine have, and the Taco has done since it was new.

??? Still confused about this, I refuse to run 93 in this thing, at least not with these prices!!!

Checked timing and it's right on. Went back to 87 and it pings all over the place. This is frustrating the hell out of me. When I fill with 93 it only costs $2 or $3 more per fill up, no big deal, but this thing should run fine on 87. What is the deal??

Retard the timing a little more. My guess is that either they milled the cylinder head and/or block when the engine was rebuilt and the timing needs to be backed of a little more to compensate. That would also raise the compression when the head is milled as well.