What you can expect from insurance comanies (be prepared)
12-19-2007, 10:59 AM
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What you can expect from insurance comanies (be prepared)
Im writing this in hopes that someone learns something about insurance companies and how they handle vehicles like ours. Perhaps it will enable you to avoid a sore and chapped rear. This is a summary of the highlights. This was a long and VERY ugly process. Its a long read but I dont want to see people rolling over for insurance companies. There is alot more to this story.
Little history
Ive owned my 92 4runner for 4 or 5 years. Over that time it has always been fully insured. It has evolved from stock to its current state. Over those years I have discussed this vehicle with my agent and he always said “save your receipts, and have pictures.”
The accident
A stupid kid merged into me and put me in the ditch. As I drove through the ditch at about 35mph, I hit a driveway and got a little air. This bent the housing, broke the centering pins, and a couple small things.
The insurance process
I notify state farm. I explain the complexity of the case due to the nature of the vehicle. They say yeah yeah, no problem. So I take a day off work so I can meet the adjuster at my house. That morning I get a call from a woman asking to see the vehicle. I ask her if she knows anything about the case. She says no. When she arrives she has a mixture of 2 looks on her face, one of “deer in the headlights” and one of “keep it together, you are a pro and you can do this.” She asks me a series of dumb questions like, “is your sway bar supposed to look like that?” I reply, “that’s my tie rod.” Then I am showing her some knuckle damage and she blurts out in a suspicious tone, “funny usually when a lower control arm goes bad there are metal shavings.” I reply, “there are NO control arms on this vehicle.” She stands up, pulls out her card, says we will be in touch and speeds away. A waste of my day and I lose a day of work.
The next day Claims calls me and explains that the vehicle needs to be looked at by a qualified mechanic (Like I said in the first place). The only qualified local mechanic I can think of is a 4x4 shop here in northern Illinois. So a few days go by and the truck gets picked up and hauled off to the shop. There it is torn down and damage is assessed at $5500.
A couple days later another adjuster shows up to the shop and calls the vehicle a total loss. I get another call from claims and they explain to me that the vehicle is a total loss and they are assessing the value at NADA’s $3900 minus $4000 in body damage. Out of the kindness of their hearts they cut that in half and offer me $1769. I reply that is too low. She asks me what I believe the vehicle would sell for? I say between $10,000 and $15,000. She pauses and very sarcastically says, “Im speechless.” I explain why the vehicle is worth such a price. She then asks me to find comparable vehicles in that price range. “No problem what will you accept as an ad?” She replies “a local dealership ad.” I explained why that will be very difficult, to which she explains that is why the truck isn’t worth that amount of money. I ask, So then if I had a 1971 hemi cuda convertible (1 of 11) and it was totaled and you said do to the age of the vehicle it was worth $250, and I explained it is worth $250,000. Would I then have to prove it by finding it on a dealer lot she said, they have special insurance. I replied, I have asked for special insurance and always told it is not necessary. I said fine I will get the ads and invoices of parts that you require. I spend a week searching and printing a total of 70 pages of invoices and vehicle ads from auto trader and Pirate 4x4.
When im finally done with that, I call claims and ask if they really want me to fax 70 pages. She then explains that those things (sas, tires, gears…..) do not add value to the vehicle because the vehicle comes with tires, suspension, etc. And that they are personal preference. So I did all that for nothing. Instead she wants to call a dealership and describe to them my vehicle and ask what they think its worth. She calls me back later and offers her final price of around $2000. I disagreed with her and she became rude, yelling at me and talking over me. The whole time im thinking, I pay these people. I then ask her, “so do you believe that if I put my vehicle out on the street for $3000 it would not sell?” She laughs and says of course not! I informed her that I was done talking to her and that I was going to hang up. I now had to get an appraiser
I picked a couple people who were qualified to appraise my trucks selling value (a couple 4x4 shop owners who I trust and were approved by state farm), and state farm did the same. The state farm appraiser shows up (a 70 yr old guy) and he takes a quick look at the vehicle and writes his appraisal for $15,000! Next thing I know my truck is moved from the HORRIBLE total loss team 53, to a nice pleasant team who agrees to pay the repair costs.
Now things I learned about the inner workings of State Farm (or atleast as it seems). There are several different parties. They all have their place. The Agent. He is your best friend and can help you work through the process. Then there is the Claims office. This is made up of teams. I believe the different teams are like tools in a tool box. If they suspect something fishy then the claim goes to a team like 53, a bunch of people who’s job it is to drag you through the mud and if you are still holding on at the end then they pick you up dust you off and comply. I believe they are there to work the scammers. Other teams are nice and accommodating. BE HONEST and don’t rest until you have what you DESERVE. Be sure you know what you deserve.
Little history
Ive owned my 92 4runner for 4 or 5 years. Over that time it has always been fully insured. It has evolved from stock to its current state. Over those years I have discussed this vehicle with my agent and he always said “save your receipts, and have pictures.”
The accident
A stupid kid merged into me and put me in the ditch. As I drove through the ditch at about 35mph, I hit a driveway and got a little air. This bent the housing, broke the centering pins, and a couple small things.
The insurance process
I notify state farm. I explain the complexity of the case due to the nature of the vehicle. They say yeah yeah, no problem. So I take a day off work so I can meet the adjuster at my house. That morning I get a call from a woman asking to see the vehicle. I ask her if she knows anything about the case. She says no. When she arrives she has a mixture of 2 looks on her face, one of “deer in the headlights” and one of “keep it together, you are a pro and you can do this.” She asks me a series of dumb questions like, “is your sway bar supposed to look like that?” I reply, “that’s my tie rod.” Then I am showing her some knuckle damage and she blurts out in a suspicious tone, “funny usually when a lower control arm goes bad there are metal shavings.” I reply, “there are NO control arms on this vehicle.” She stands up, pulls out her card, says we will be in touch and speeds away. A waste of my day and I lose a day of work.
The next day Claims calls me and explains that the vehicle needs to be looked at by a qualified mechanic (Like I said in the first place). The only qualified local mechanic I can think of is a 4x4 shop here in northern Illinois. So a few days go by and the truck gets picked up and hauled off to the shop. There it is torn down and damage is assessed at $5500.
A couple days later another adjuster shows up to the shop and calls the vehicle a total loss. I get another call from claims and they explain to me that the vehicle is a total loss and they are assessing the value at NADA’s $3900 minus $4000 in body damage. Out of the kindness of their hearts they cut that in half and offer me $1769. I reply that is too low. She asks me what I believe the vehicle would sell for? I say between $10,000 and $15,000. She pauses and very sarcastically says, “Im speechless.” I explain why the vehicle is worth such a price. She then asks me to find comparable vehicles in that price range. “No problem what will you accept as an ad?” She replies “a local dealership ad.” I explained why that will be very difficult, to which she explains that is why the truck isn’t worth that amount of money. I ask, So then if I had a 1971 hemi cuda convertible (1 of 11) and it was totaled and you said do to the age of the vehicle it was worth $250, and I explained it is worth $250,000. Would I then have to prove it by finding it on a dealer lot she said, they have special insurance. I replied, I have asked for special insurance and always told it is not necessary. I said fine I will get the ads and invoices of parts that you require. I spend a week searching and printing a total of 70 pages of invoices and vehicle ads from auto trader and Pirate 4x4.
When im finally done with that, I call claims and ask if they really want me to fax 70 pages. She then explains that those things (sas, tires, gears…..) do not add value to the vehicle because the vehicle comes with tires, suspension, etc. And that they are personal preference. So I did all that for nothing. Instead she wants to call a dealership and describe to them my vehicle and ask what they think its worth. She calls me back later and offers her final price of around $2000. I disagreed with her and she became rude, yelling at me and talking over me. The whole time im thinking, I pay these people. I then ask her, “so do you believe that if I put my vehicle out on the street for $3000 it would not sell?” She laughs and says of course not! I informed her that I was done talking to her and that I was going to hang up. I now had to get an appraiser
I picked a couple people who were qualified to appraise my trucks selling value (a couple 4x4 shop owners who I trust and were approved by state farm), and state farm did the same. The state farm appraiser shows up (a 70 yr old guy) and he takes a quick look at the vehicle and writes his appraisal for $15,000! Next thing I know my truck is moved from the HORRIBLE total loss team 53, to a nice pleasant team who agrees to pay the repair costs.
Now things I learned about the inner workings of State Farm (or atleast as it seems). There are several different parties. They all have their place. The Agent. He is your best friend and can help you work through the process. Then there is the Claims office. This is made up of teams. I believe the different teams are like tools in a tool box. If they suspect something fishy then the claim goes to a team like 53, a bunch of people who’s job it is to drag you through the mud and if you are still holding on at the end then they pick you up dust you off and comply. I believe they are there to work the scammers. Other teams are nice and accommodating. BE HONEST and don’t rest until you have what you DESERVE. Be sure you know what you deserve.
12-19-2007, 11:15 AM
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I will totally agree with you on this dude. FWIW state farm sucks! My family had them for years and they always gave us a hassle. They didnt total my dads buick even though the entire front end was damaged, instead they paid to have it repaired for 4k when the vehicle wasnt even worth that, then of course many things began to fail and he sued them.
Next time I go to insure my vehicles with any company I am getting special insurance or getting my agent to underwrite the proper jargon so I am compensated, then I am taking it to a few 4x4 shop's to get appraisals which I will happily pay for if need be and be done with it.
Thats the way to do it, and anything you add or have done should be saved and documented. I have all receipts from the previous owner and now mine.
Next time I go to insure my vehicles with any company I am getting special insurance or getting my agent to underwrite the proper jargon so I am compensated, then I am taking it to a few 4x4 shop's to get appraisals which I will happily pay for if need be and be done with it.
Thats the way to do it, and anything you add or have done should be saved and documented. I have all receipts from the previous owner and now mine.
12-19-2007, 11:34 AM
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just my opinion, but i swear by state farm. Djlarroc could shed some light on this subject, and i hope he does, it would be interesting to see it from an agents point of view.
12-19-2007, 11:38 AM
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Ive had other ins comps and State Farm is IMO the best. That being said its like winning the special olympics!
12-19-2007, 12:42 PM
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Hey guys, ah yeah... this is a tough one.
First things first, 4rnr, I'm glad you weren't hurt and your claim was settled satisfactorily.
Now, the purpose of insurance to is to restore you to your original postion before the occurence.
I have been w/State Farm for 7 yrs. I will try my best not to adverstise for them, but I wouldn't sell for anyone else. I have been a policy holder w/SF as well for about 17 yrs, and wouldn't buy from anywhere else either.
I think you were very lucky to have been paid the amount you got. Why? Because, even though your agent told you to save your receipts (which is correct & I do the same), your premiums were based on a stock 1992 4Runner. Not a 1992 4Runner with suspension mods & exo-cage, lockers, & 37s, etc, etc, etc. If that was the case and the insurance companies could find a way to accurately rate for those vehicles, I'm sure your premium would be more than double. Would you have opted to pay that? Maybe, maybe not. That is completely up to the policy holder.
The majority of people do not really invest so much money into their vehicles, so the insurance companies normally use whatever they believe the common vehicle of that make and model would sell for. Hence, your first offer. Claims is a tough place to work in. Usually no one is ever happy, and everyone is freaking out. Plus like others said, they have to screen all the scams. And of course we are all human! But! if anyone does not feel like they are being treated fairly & with respect, ask for a different adjuster. No problem.
Like I said, I'm glad you got your claim settled and really feel State Farm is one of the few companies that would have paid what they did pay. Heck, we even had a policy holder once, who's insurance had lapsed, had an accident and told the claims office he was on his way to drop his insurance payment off at the mailbox when the accident happened!! And State Farm paid the claim!! I was involved in helping the policy holder file the claim. Pretty amazing if you ask me.
First things first, 4rnr, I'm glad you weren't hurt and your claim was settled satisfactorily.
Now, the purpose of insurance to is to restore you to your original postion before the occurence.
I have been w/State Farm for 7 yrs. I will try my best not to adverstise for them, but I wouldn't sell for anyone else. I have been a policy holder w/SF as well for about 17 yrs, and wouldn't buy from anywhere else either.
I think you were very lucky to have been paid the amount you got. Why? Because, even though your agent told you to save your receipts (which is correct & I do the same), your premiums were based on a stock 1992 4Runner. Not a 1992 4Runner with suspension mods & exo-cage, lockers, & 37s, etc, etc, etc. If that was the case and the insurance companies could find a way to accurately rate for those vehicles, I'm sure your premium would be more than double. Would you have opted to pay that? Maybe, maybe not. That is completely up to the policy holder.
The majority of people do not really invest so much money into their vehicles, so the insurance companies normally use whatever they believe the common vehicle of that make and model would sell for. Hence, your first offer. Claims is a tough place to work in. Usually no one is ever happy, and everyone is freaking out. Plus like others said, they have to screen all the scams. And of course we are all human! But! if anyone does not feel like they are being treated fairly & with respect, ask for a different adjuster. No problem.
Like I said, I'm glad you got your claim settled and really feel State Farm is one of the few companies that would have paid what they did pay. Heck, we even had a policy holder once, who's insurance had lapsed, had an accident and told the claims office he was on his way to drop his insurance payment off at the mailbox when the accident happened!! And State Farm paid the claim!! I was involved in helping the policy holder file the claim. Pretty amazing if you ask me.
Last edited by Djlarroc; 12-19-2007 at 12:53 PM.
12-19-2007, 12:59 PM
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I have USAA ... when I rolled my '89, I had some issues, but nothing like the process described above. At least half as many "steps". I still don't think I got what everything was worth, but they went above and beyond what they were actually entitled to do per the policy.
Hint: read your policy, and work from there. You may very well need a rider or stated value coverage Djlarroc alludes to above.
Hint: read your policy, and work from there. You may very well need a rider or stated value coverage Djlarroc alludes to above.
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12-19-2007, 01:37 PM
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Hey guys, ah yeah... this is a tough one.
First things first, 4rnr, I'm glad you weren't hurt and your claim was settled satisfactorily.
Now, the purpose of insurance to is to restore you to your original postion before the occurence.
I have been w/State Farm for 7 yrs. I will try my best not to adverstise for them, but I wouldn't sell for anyone else. I have been a policy holder w/SF as well for about 17 yrs, and wouldn't buy from anywhere else either.
I think you were very lucky to have been paid the amount you got. Why? Because, even though your agent told you to save your receipts (which is correct & I do the same), your premiums were based on a stock 1992 4Runner. Not a 1992 4Runner with suspension mods & exo-cage, lockers, & 37s, etc, etc, etc. If that was the case and the insurance companies could find a way to accurately rate for those vehicles, I'm sure your premium would be more than double. Would you have opted to pay that? Maybe, maybe not. That is completely up to the policy holder.
The majority of people do not really invest so much money into their vehicles, so the insurance companies normally use whatever they believe the common vehicle of that make and model would sell for. Hence, your first offer. Claims is a tough place to work in. Usually no one is ever happy, and everyone is freaking out. Plus like others said, they have to screen all the scams. And of course we are all human! But! if anyone does not feel like they are being treated fairly & with respect, ask for a different adjuster. No problem.
Like I said, I'm glad you got your claim settled and really feel State Farm is one of the few companies that would have paid what they did pay. Heck, we even had a policy holder once, who's insurance had lapsed, had an accident and told the claims office he was on his way to drop his insurance payment off at the mailbox when the accident happened!! And State Farm paid the claim!! I was involved in helping the policy holder file the claim. Pretty amazing if you ask me.
First things first, 4rnr, I'm glad you weren't hurt and your claim was settled satisfactorily.
Now, the purpose of insurance to is to restore you to your original postion before the occurence.
I have been w/State Farm for 7 yrs. I will try my best not to adverstise for them, but I wouldn't sell for anyone else. I have been a policy holder w/SF as well for about 17 yrs, and wouldn't buy from anywhere else either.
I think you were very lucky to have been paid the amount you got. Why? Because, even though your agent told you to save your receipts (which is correct & I do the same), your premiums were based on a stock 1992 4Runner. Not a 1992 4Runner with suspension mods & exo-cage, lockers, & 37s, etc, etc, etc. If that was the case and the insurance companies could find a way to accurately rate for those vehicles, I'm sure your premium would be more than double. Would you have opted to pay that? Maybe, maybe not. That is completely up to the policy holder.
The majority of people do not really invest so much money into their vehicles, so the insurance companies normally use whatever they believe the common vehicle of that make and model would sell for. Hence, your first offer. Claims is a tough place to work in. Usually no one is ever happy, and everyone is freaking out. Plus like others said, they have to screen all the scams. And of course we are all human! But! if anyone does not feel like they are being treated fairly & with respect, ask for a different adjuster. No problem.
Like I said, I'm glad you got your claim settled and really feel State Farm is one of the few companies that would have paid what they did pay. Heck, we even had a policy holder once, who's insurance had lapsed, had an accident and told the claims office he was on his way to drop his insurance payment off at the mailbox when the accident happened!! And State Farm paid the claim!! I was involved in helping the policy holder file the claim. Pretty amazing if you ask me.
Amen. thanks Djlarroc.
12-19-2007, 02:00 PM
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Wow, I really hate insurance companys. I pay them to protect me if the unthinkable happens, but when it does they offer nothing but BS.
This has got me thinking, I should get all my recepts in order. I must have a good 4 grand worth of upgrades so far.
any pictures of the damage?
This has got me thinking, I should get all my recepts in order. I must have a good 4 grand worth of upgrades so far.
any pictures of the damage?
12-19-2007, 03:11 PM
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I think you were very lucky to have been paid the amount you got. Why? Because, even though your agent told you to save your receipts (which is correct & I do the same), your premiums were based on a stock 1992 4Runner. Not a 1992 4Runner with suspension mods & exo-cage, lockers, & 37s, etc, etc, etc. If that was the case and the insurance companies could find a way to accurately rate for those vehicles, I'm sure your premium would be more than double. Would you have opted to pay that? Maybe, maybe not. That is completely up to the policy holder.
12-19-2007, 03:14 PM
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nothing to take pics of. the only evidence of damage is bad camber (bent housing) and the leaf packs have a different orientation (broke centering bolts)
The kid hit me and tore up his car really bad but as expected he didnt even scuff the paint on my cage
The kid hit me and tore up his car really bad but as expected he didnt even scuff the paint on my cage
12-19-2007, 03:33 PM
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Good job fighting them. I had to fight them on my tow rig and came out good eventually, although it took nearly 5 months.
Sad part is they are still probably the best insurance company out there. They'll repair vehicles with new parts, lifetime warranty, help yell at the dealer for you, give you a fair value for stock vehicles, etc. I am VERY glad I didn't have anyone like Progressive or Geico to deal with.
Sad part is they are still probably the best insurance company out there. They'll repair vehicles with new parts, lifetime warranty, help yell at the dealer for you, give you a fair value for stock vehicles, etc. I am VERY glad I didn't have anyone like Progressive or Geico to deal with.
These trucks sure are tough!
12-19-2007, 04:20 PM
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12-19-2007, 04:43 PM
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12-19-2007, 05:00 PM
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Well as I tried to anticipate state farms every move I came across one very damaging route they could have taken. If state farm was smart they would have recognized that this vehicle (unlike a stock vehicle) is almost as valuable as parts as it is as a whole. If they new that then they may have been able to say it is worth 10k however if you are keeping the vehicle the salvage cost will be 8k, bc if you parted the truck out you could easily get 8k. That would have all been true! But I figured/knew state farm does not have person/procedure for assesing a vehicle like mine
12-19-2007, 05:44 PM
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Geico actually is pretty good, my mom rearended this idiot who forced thier way inbetween us in amigo. We hit thier stupid spare tire on the back and damaged our car, they had 0 damage.
Geico came out to my house, appraised it and off it went to repair and we told them to just try and save as much $$$ on it since we want to incur insane premium jumps..
Geico came out to my house, appraised it and off it went to repair and we told them to just try and save as much $$$ on it since we want to incur insane premium jumps..
12-19-2007, 06:19 PM
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True and a very valid point...BUT. If thats the case not only should I still be covered but if they would have sited that as a reason to not settle I would have sued them. They knew from day one what this truck was and I asked several times if it is covered and they said yes. I would have sued for the replacement cost of the vehicle PLUS 4-5 yrs worth of premiums in the amount of the difference between liability and full coverage.
The way insurance companies gather rates on vehicles alone is over the years, they calculate how much it is to repair a vehicle, then assign it a "IRG" or "Insurance Rating Group". My BMW has an IRG of 29, while my 4Runner has an IRG of 7. Naturally, the premiums on my BMW are higher. You can't expect to pay premiums on a lower value vehicle and if & when a claim occurs, be reimbursed on a higher value vehicle. It's not fair, even for insurance companies.
You paid premiums on a lower valued vehicle and got paid on a higher valued vehicle. IMO, SF took very good care of you, regardless of the fact you had to work for it. In the cut-throat world of the insurance, I think many companies would've told you "sorry, that' all we can offer".
A tip to everyone, best thing is to inform your agent, and READ your policy. Be informed of what you are getting for your money. There are no dumb questions. If you poor cash into your rig, ask if there is a stated value floater, rider or endorsment and pay the extra cash for it. It's way worth it.
This is what I think from all my experiences and is JMO, other people may have a totally different outcome.
