Ohio4Runner

So apparently after I finished reassembling the engine (3.0 VZE) after installing new HGs, somewhere along the line I must have rotated the crank about 1/3 of a turn. All the three marks lined up when I put the timing belt back on, so it didn't happen until some time after that. I noticed last night when I was checking the ignition timing - the notch on the crank doesn't line up to "0".

Is this a problem? For the first 100 miles, the engine ran smooth, but then started in with a rough idle, which I am trying to track down (doesn't seem to be rough enough to be a skipped belt, but how would I know?). Do I need to tear down and realign the timing belt, or can I live with it not lining up?

Thanks!

scope103

Are you talking about the "0" mark on the belt? Pay no attention to that. That's there to make it easier to install in the first instance, but as soon as the belt goes around once it will no longer line up (eventually it will line up again, but after a lot of revolutions.)

There's a set of marks on the harmonic balancer that line up with a mark on the timing belt cover; that's what you shine your timing light one. Are you talking about those?

xxxtreme22r

put engine back at TDC #1 compression as stated in the FSM procedure for removing the timing belt. Do all three line up again? They should, if not then timing belt was either not installed properly or the belt slipped somewhere along the lines. P.S. if not, it's hard to explain but you can re align the marks without removing anything on the front of the engine with the exception of the plastic cover.

Ohio4Runner

"There's a set of marks on the harmonic balancer that line up with a mark on the timing belt cover; that's what you shine your timing light one. Are you talking about those?"

I think so. The notch on the crankshaft pulley that should be next to the "0" when at TDC.

"you can re align the marks without removing anything on the front of the engine with the exception of the plastic cover."

Still have to drain out the coolant, though, right? Trying to get out all the air bubbles gives me fits, if there was a way to not have to do that...

xxxtreme22r

hmmm might have to take that coolant thingy off, last time i did one of these that thing was off already so yeah goo point might have to take that off to get the timing cover off. If you haven't taken that thing off how you know it doesn't line up? As you have to see the marks on the cams to determine if the belt is right.

Or are you talking ignition timing and not crank/cam/belt timing?

Ohio4Runner

No, not the cam marks. They lined up when I did the initial belt timing (which was good) during reassembly. I am talking about the "0 5 10 15" marks on the timing belt cover. The notch on the crank pulley doesn't line up with that when then engine is off, or if I advance the crank using the starter motor. If I were to point a timing light at the notch, it would not be by the "0" mark on the timing belt cover.

xxxtreme22r

it's not supposed to be at 0, it's supposed to be at 10 with the jumper installed when hitting it with the timing light. And it's real hard to get that to line up with the starter itself, you have to get it close and turn the engine by hand (wrench) to put the notch at 0 if you want to put it at TDC. And in reality you have a 1 in 360 chance of it hitting the notch at 0 when just turning it off which will almost never happen.

For some reason not knowing thse things I am gonna have to assume you really don't know what you are doing and might have to explain a little clearer. Not that there is anything wrong with that though, just like to know how much I am dealing with when it comes to someone elses knowledge.

Ohio4Runner

No, you got it, I am a noob with this one. The FSM etc made it sound like you could advance the crank with the starter until the notch lined up with "0". If that isn't the case, I may move on to bigger fish. I can advance the crank with a wrench no problem, I just thought that it would stop with the mark where it should be, at least after a couple of cranks from the starter.

So how, without tearing it back down to the belt, can I tell if it skipped a tooth? Like I said, the lines all matched when I began to reassemble.

xxxtreme22r

go to the fsm where it starts the info about checking the marks on the timing chain prior to removal. If all 3 timing marks line up, the belt is good. If they do not, you might not be on the correct TDC and have to turn 1 or two more revolutions of the motor to get the correct TDC. When you turn the engine by hand, make sure you pull the coil wire otherwise the engine could very well turn on it's own cus that would be a bad thing. Glad I just did this with 92 Toy's son's truck as it's fresh in my mind.

92 TOY

right on....

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

Do you know how to adjust ignition timing by turning the distributor? Do you know how timing works?

As long as the notch on the balancer was pointing at the "0" when you installed the timing belt, you are fine. The engine doesn't automatically reset back to zero when you shut it off. It stops wherever it stops, and so does the rest of the drivetrain.

You do know how a 4-stroke motor works....right?

Ohio4Runner

"You do know how a 4-stroke motor works....right?"

Sure do. I understand ignition timing as well, but have never done it myself. We'll get there, just asking some questions to confirm either my understanding or ignorance, that's all.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

Just trying to figure out why you think the notch should be at zero when you shut the motor off.....or why zero matters for anything other than ignition timing?

Ohio4Runner

Just taking a chance (and succeeding) at looking like a noob. The wording in one of the manuals I was reading said something like "give a few cranks of the starter to line up the notch with the "0"" or something close to that. Since this is new territory for me, I thought, correctly, that the wizards on these forums would set me straight one way or the other.

I can line it up manually, no problem, just checking to see that I was either reading the manual the wrong way, or its advice was perhaps not the most practical.

xxxtreme22r

you can se the starter aka "bumping" to move the crank as well, especially if your not close to TDC #1 compression, you just do it so you can get as close as you can without going over and then do it by hand to get it perfect.

Do not however rotate engine backwards to obtain the 0 mark. If you go over you can rotate it backwards but must go past the 0 mark and hit it going forwards. Reason being is the slack in the timing chain/belt that is created by going backwards.

Now there is another reason which I somewhat agree with but I've been doing it that way for years and have never had any problems result from it but it has to do with the oil film in the bearings.

thook

Ignition timing on a 3vze is supposed to be set at *10 btdc....not *5 like the 22re. Just sayin'.......

xxxtreme22r

right thanks for the correction thook. 22re on the brain. lol.

thook

And, I've had 3vze on the brain lately.....

ebrake92

So Ive been going through all this stuff and did end up tearing mine back down to the timing belt. If the rotor is in the same spot at TDC that my buddies good runner is at, then wouldn't the cams, or atleast the left cam be good? Can you look at someone elses good 3VZE and see where its rotor is at TDC in comparison to yours?

thook

What do you mean good? Because the rotor's in proper position means the cam's in proper position? If so, no. The cam/s could be out of alignment in relation to the rear timing cover mark while the rotor is at the #1 spark terminal. Or vice versa, the cam/s could be in alignment while the rotor is off.

When mechanical timing (not ignition timing) is proper, both cams are on the notches of the rear timing plate, the crank mark is at *0 TDC, and the rotor is at around 11:30 o'clock/ on the #1 spark terminal of the distributor. Anything else is not correct. Once that is correct, ignition timing...with timing light and distributor adjustment/positioning....is set so the mark on the crank hovers at the *10 btdc mark on the crank indicator. This is all set with ECU advancement/sensor input bypassed by shorting/jumping the TE1 and E1 terminals of the diagnostic port. Also, the motor needs to reach operating temp and the transmission in neutral before it set correctly. Follow the FSM procedure to the T when setting timing.

If you want to see if the cams are on there respective marks, the power steering may need to be moved/loosened (to reach the timing cover bolt there near it) and the water inlet pipe on the idler pulley will need to be removed. You can leave that attached to the upper rad hose, but the rad needs to be emptied. None of the drive belts need to come off and you can reach the cover bolts, but pull the cover back and make sure all is aligned as described.