Road Bull

First post here, so Hello All!

I found this site because I am at a crossroads sort of speak, about what I want to do for my truck. I have had this truck for about eleven years, (second owner), and it has been pretty good to me. I always wanted a Toyota when I was a kid growing up. I always like the look and dependability that they are known for. I picked my silver V6 extended cab 4X4 up when I got out of basic training many many years ago.

Fast forward>> I had been tossing around the idea of getting something different, maybe a 4Runner. I had been thinking about this because ever since I got rid of my topper, I have not been able to move my music equipment, (I play drums), around without fear of it getting rained on (I live in Seattle), or stolen. I am still a bit undecided about making the jump from truck to 4Runner, but the 4Runner is starting to sound pretty nice.

Decision time. Recently, my clutch has begun to slip when I am in 4th gear, (mostly just 4th), pushing it to get on a highway or something. This has made me realize that I need to make some decisions before they begin to be made for me.

I could simply fix the clutch, and address some other routine maintenance to keep it running smoothly, or I could maybe pick up a similar year 4Runner for about the same money that I would put into my pickup's maintenance, maybe more.

While it might be nice to have the extra internal storage capacity that the 4Runner offers, I might just be a lot cheaper for me to bring my truck into top form.

My question to the community: If I wanted to get my clutch fixed, besides the rear seal, what other things can I do that wont break the bank, but will add to the life of the truck?

To my knowledge, the head gasket has not been done. How much does the HG job go for?

I have been reading a bit here on the site and someone also mentioned fuel filter. The said that if you have everything torn apart to get to the clutch and whatnot, that the fuel filter might be something to replace.

I am just tying to weigh the benefit of working with the devil I DO know vs. picking up a 4Runner that might have recently had a lot of this work done to it.

Thanks for reading.

-RB

julsruls

Do you do anything besides daily driving? Why not get another topper?? Or tenuea(sp) cover?

While i like suv's over trucks i also have kids and dogs. If you do go 4runner route i would say go with 3rd gen over 2nd. Just a little nicer.

How many miles on yours? What have you done to it as far as maintenance? Little bit goes a long way. Will you do the work yourself?

I think you could stick with your truck and be happy.

Headgasket good maintenance. Fuel filter is good. All the basic stuff if you have not done it. Go through it really well and see if stuff is wearing out like bushings, balljoints, tierods etc. Fluids, filters etc.

Having been stationed at fort lewis i get you worrying about the rain.

Yotaleigheehoo

About 6 weeks ago, I bought my first Toyota pickup. I thought about a 4runner but decided against because I really needed the cargo space. If I ever get to the point that I'll need a covered cargo area, I'll find a topper.

scope103

I'd be surprised if you could pick up any good vehicle for the price of a clutch job. If you're talking "similar" year, you're also buying a 20-yr old truck from someone who wants to get rid of it. And what would you do with the old truck? Selling a truck with "needs new clutch" might knock more off the selling price than the cost of the clutch (as contrasted with, oh, a paint job, which you won't get back on resale).

The head gasket really isn't a maintenance item; if you don't have trouble I'd leave it alone. There was a recall a long, long time ago; you can ask a dealer to run your VIN to see if it was done (and so far as I know, they'll even do it today if it hasn't been done yet).

Gevo

Scope103 is correct about the head job, the dealer will still do it if they have not done it before. Also, I agree with scope103 that unless you are having issues, don't do the head job.

I would also keep the truck and maintain it properly vs. buy similar vehicle. I recently bought a 4runner, and I haven't yet driven anywhere except home and I've been rebuilding it. I got it for $1400, but it needed a lot of work. To date I've put in about $3k on top of what I paid for it, but by the time I'm done with it, at around $4k, it will be a pretty like new vehicle. So, if you plan on buying one about 20 years old, I don't see the value in it unless you plan on spending up to $5k.

Again, keep your truck, fix all of the problems and preemptively fix at any sign of future problems. It will cost you much less.

wmayota

The devil you know is always kinder than the one you don't. My truck sat for two years before i drove it again. I did had the timing belt, water pump, belts, and a new radiator put in. Also changed all the gear oil in the diffs, tranny, and transfer case. Just a few things to consider.

Road Bull

Thanks for all the replies.

My millage is around 163K. It is my only vehicle. I drive mostly road, but have plenty of trails around that I wouldn't mind exploring. There ate plenty of fire service roads with plenty of muddy terrain and snow at times.

I think I will be keeping my truck and fixing the clutch. Is it better to try to go with a beefier aftermarket clutch that still hold up better than original Toyota parts?

There are a couple of more known issues that I will address as time and money allows.

There its a belt screeching sound, but not from the belt address it seems. It sounds as though it is coming from close to below my seat. In the past, chasing odd noises has put a hurt wallet, and did little to fix the noise. I wonder if it I'd also clutch related.

The other is a lesser issue. I don't think my shocks and springs have ever been changed. It might be time to do that. I have 31" tired and during compression and extreme turning angles, the tire rubs the flaps. It I am replacing these items, I might just look into getting a lift kit instead.

There is a bit of an oil leak, I am thinking from the head gasket area, that has been leaking for some time now, over a year or so. Its not something that I am adding a lot of oil to between changes, but I keep an eye one it. My mechanic said that to find the leak, the usually do a steam clean of the engine for $300. That seemed a bit crazy seeing as how that is money that would not be going towards fixing the issue, but just detecting the issue. But the HG might be the likely culprit.

Thanks Scope103 for the heads up on the HG fix that Toyota offers. I will do some research on this tomorrow I think.

Thoughts?

Road Bull

So after talking with a friend I think the squealing is the clutch bearing. Hopefully, the clutch job will handle that annoying noise.

RSR

If you do the head gasket, insist on new head bolts! And extra attention to cleaning out the threads prior to install...

Get a can or two of brake cleaner and get under the truck and spray everything down... A respirator and googles aren't a bad idea if you're going to be directly under where you're spraying.

Most likely leak culprits are valve cover seals, cam plugs, rear main seal (big pita), oil cooler, and oil pan. Oil pan if stock is fipg, so shouldn't be leaking.

Valve cover seals and cam plugs can be done at the same time. I'd also recommend adding ~$600 of labor onto that job and adjusting your valves too. And if your mechanic is like mine, they'll pull the cams for valve adjustment (said it was easier), which means removing the timing belt... So have them replace the timing belt, and consider a water pump and new thermostat too... Likely you'll be $1500 in on this job, but maybe $2k. All together you'll have your top end ready to run another 100k plus.

Oil cooler is a pain but doable, but it's probably due for a flush anyways. And the coolant hoses on it are due for replacement anyways -- especially the one running under the oil filter that probably was soaked in oil each oil change and not cleaned off unless you diy...

Also consider running Seafoam Spray and Amsoil through intake (have a writeup on this), and definitely run some of the Amsoil engine cleaner through before your next oil change. I was blown away at how much it smoothed out my engine -- did this after the valve adjustment...

I wrote a similar post over here just today w/ more info: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post52129359

Oh, and lastly, ARE makes some great bed toppers. Definitely take a gander.

RSR

StewsRunner

iTrader: (1)

I'll trade you a 2nd gen 4runner for it?

Gamefreakgc

Head Gaskets are known in some cases to last. Just keep up with changing fluids often and you might be lucky like I've been.

I know you decided to keep it... but the 3rd Gen (1996+) 4Runners might be what you are looking for. Around here you can pick up used ones with about 150k miles for about 7-8k, with a much better engine.

scope103

Sorry, all that means is your mechanic doesn't have the right tools.

Road Bull

Thanks for all the info! This helps when I am trying to prioritize what work I plan on doing first. I think what I might do is write up a list of potential work to be done broken down with parts and labor. Then I might shop around a little to see what it might cost me different places.

I want to address as many issues I can during one service that I can, within reason, for the least amount of money. For instance, if I am going to be doing the clutch, and it also makes sense to replace the slave cylinder, rear seal, and some other things, while everything is apart and easy to address, then, that makes sense to me. I don't want to have to come back to tear things apart and add a lot of labor, if something can be fixed in a group. So I am just trying to figure out how to get the most for my money that will add to the life of my truck.

Do you think it is better to go original Toyota clutch parts or a more performance aftermarket clutch?

I have been reading up on old forums weighing the pros and cons of the two different approaches. Many say that the Toyota clutches are pretty bullet proof due to their longevity, but would I notice much of an improvement with a good aftermarket? I am OK with spending a little more to get a good quality product.



Well, I have mostly decided to keep the old gal, but I am never opposed to looking at pics and stats.

Yeah. I am still researching the whole 4Runner thing. In a lot of ways it would make sense to have more secure covered storage that is climate controlled. I play drums in my band. Extreme heat and extreme cold are not great for wooden drums. Mostly when going from one extreme to another. A cold canopy covered truck to a heated venue can sometimes damage shells, or cause enough condensation during transition over time to be hard on all the metal finishes. Anyway...

I have always like the years before they changed the front end grill/light section around. I think this begins in 1996? I am taking that 1996 onward is 3rd generation? (keep in mind I am still new here.) But the 1996 on till whenever they started using more plastic for the lower portions of the body are cool too. I am just not too into all the puffy plastic look that tries to "refine" the 4Runner into something less off-road capable and more street comfy. To me, at least at some point, Toyota totally lost me with how ugly they made the front ends. The bumper looks like it sticks out WAY too far. I realize that you can change bumpers, but for me, it is less appealing. But overall, I do like 4Runners as well.

RSR

Nope, they definitely have all the tools. A couple older guys that used to work for a dealership and have had their own Lexus/Toyota shop for the past couple decades... Basically, they said the factory tools are crap.

One of the most honest shops I've ever used, including close family friends owning their own (unfortunately, none in the same city -- access to a shop for personal repairs over a driveway is awesome).
In fact, they found a bolt or something in the timing cover that was chewing up the belt the PO replaced at 125k (used them for that service too though he declined the recommended valve adjustment and they really didn't want to do it for me either...) and replaced it at no cost...
They bill only time worked and I think the valve adjustment labor portion of the bill was in the ~$400 range. And they adjusted all 12 to ideal specs... Basically, they said the time is the same either way and rather than fiddling with the less than ideal service tools for the valve job... And it might have something to do with 50+ year old hand dexterity after a life of wrenching. Who knows. They did a great job for the same price I'd have paid them otherwise to use the Toyota tools (per them), got a new timing belt, and saved myself a couple hundred bucks over what the dealer would have charged for the same project...

Road Bull

Well, I think Monday I will be picking somewhere to have my clutch fixed. Its looking to run around $1200, give or take. Well... I suppose more give than take. I might just have it done at Toyota unless I find somewhere around that will do quality work for less.

Also, I think I need to stop browsing CL for 4Runners. They are distracting me from just getting my truck fixed. I seem to like 4Runners from 1997-2000. Ones without too much plastic on the bottom quarter of the vehicle, and the cheap looking building fender flares.

Stay on target. Stay on target...

julsruls

Theres a shop in seattle area that does all toyotas and makes awesome yotas...............
They would know how handle it.....

I cant think of name.

bone collector

$1200 !!! wow. im glad I changed my clutch myself!! ouch!!!

anywho.... are you getting an aftermarket heavy duty clutch?? I love my 1200 pound marlin clutch. it has awesome clamping force and is easy on the leg.

Road Bull

Yeah. It is pretty expensive. At the moment, I don't have the tools or the place to work. But I think I will begin buying a little at a time so I can attempt these things myself.

I was up in the air about what clutch to put in. It was between OEM and a Marlin. Besides resurfacing the FW, would the Marlin need anything specific that would need to be changed out. (Besides TO bearing, and main seal?) In other words, does a 1200 lbs. clutch put more stress on other factory parts than an OEM clutch?

I was planning on getting the slave cylinder replaced while Humpty Dumpty is getting put back together.

bone collector

Nothing special for the Marlin clutch. Just resurface the flywheel and install the clutch.