Spun ALL sets of rod bearings!
10-20-2009, 01:24 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Spun ALL sets of rod bearings!
Ok, so I need some help playing doctor here fellas.
Best friend has an 89 Toyota 4x4 22RE (approx. 110k miles). He recently replaced the timing chain (and accessories). So the oil pump, timing cover, water pump, and head were all removed and re-installed at one point during the project.
We also purchased a rebuilt head from a private party who ended up not needing it for HIS project... camshaft included and pre-installed.
Oil was changed with 4-1/2 qts. of Castrol Synthetic. We let the engine run at idle for a few minutes to adjust the valves.
The next day he drove to work and engine started to knock. He had it trailered home and removed the oil pan. The rod bearings were so scarred up that they were primarily that "goldish" color (as opposed to the shiny chrome look).
So far, the entire set of rod bearings in the bottom end are destroyed. How do they all get knocked out at once? Any takers?
My only concerns during the original top-end rebuild project were:
1) That he wasn't confident about the workings of the oil pump and if anything had to be especially aligned prior to installation. He said there was an "arrow" or something on one of the cogs in the pump.
2) The camshaft in the rebuilt head could NOT be rotated by hand, whereas the original cam spun completely freely inside of the old head. My friend believed it was just "that new" but that sounded like a load of BS to me. The timing chain doesn't strike me as being able to handle thay kind of load.
Best friend has an 89 Toyota 4x4 22RE (approx. 110k miles). He recently replaced the timing chain (and accessories). So the oil pump, timing cover, water pump, and head were all removed and re-installed at one point during the project.
We also purchased a rebuilt head from a private party who ended up not needing it for HIS project... camshaft included and pre-installed.
Oil was changed with 4-1/2 qts. of Castrol Synthetic. We let the engine run at idle for a few minutes to adjust the valves.
The next day he drove to work and engine started to knock. He had it trailered home and removed the oil pan. The rod bearings were so scarred up that they were primarily that "goldish" color (as opposed to the shiny chrome look).
So far, the entire set of rod bearings in the bottom end are destroyed. How do they all get knocked out at once? Any takers?
My only concerns during the original top-end rebuild project were:
1) That he wasn't confident about the workings of the oil pump and if anything had to be especially aligned prior to installation. He said there was an "arrow" or something on one of the cogs in the pump.
2) The camshaft in the rebuilt head could NOT be rotated by hand, whereas the original cam spun completely freely inside of the old head. My friend believed it was just "that new" but that sounded like a load of BS to me. The timing chain doesn't strike me as being able to handle thay kind of load.
10-20-2009, 02:01 PM
#3
Registered User
cam should spin loosely NOT WITH THE ROCKERS INSTALLED, so if its out of the truck yeah itll spin but while it in the truck with the rockers in its gonna be a lil harder cuz you have to push the springs,
10-20-2009, 02:29 PM
#4
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did your friend do the timing rebuild because the chain ground through the cover, or just preventative maintenance?
One cause could be that the oil pump wasn't primed when it was put back on......
If it was because of cover damage, the coolant getting sucked up and ran through the bearings is enough to gauld them. Then the damage really starts!
One cause could be that the oil pump wasn't primed when it was put back on......
If it was because of cover damage, the coolant getting sucked up and ran through the bearings is enough to gauld them. Then the damage really starts!
10-20-2009, 11:17 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Wow... its amazing how much information one could leave out.
Ok, the ORIGINAL reason for tearing the motor apart started with a blown headgasket. This would allow coolant to mix with the oil, but he stopped driving it when the telltale signs of a bad hg came about. That's why I was avoiding this as an answer. I mean... its definetly possible that that would be the cause, but I've been there with milk in my crank case and no bearing troubles whatsoever... and I've got double the mileage.
The oil pump is the correct year... we never REPLACED it. Just reinstalled it. We did not prime it ahead of time. I'll have to ask him if he cleaned it out or if he still left oil residue inside the knooks of it.
And no, the timing chain did not grind through the cover. He was convinced that the chain had stretched... I dunno about that one. I suppose its possible, but I'll just consider the itming chain replacement as a "what the hell, we're halfway there" sort of fiasco.
By spinning the camshaft by hand, I was referring to the rocker assembly being removed. We've done headgasket replacing a few times with nothing but success... this time however we included a timing chain kit. THe timing marks were spot on by the way. We know our way around these engines very well, but everyone gets stumped over something somewhere along the way. This just happens to be our time.
Ok, the ORIGINAL reason for tearing the motor apart started with a blown headgasket. This would allow coolant to mix with the oil, but he stopped driving it when the telltale signs of a bad hg came about. That's why I was avoiding this as an answer. I mean... its definetly possible that that would be the cause, but I've been there with milk in my crank case and no bearing troubles whatsoever... and I've got double the mileage.
The oil pump is the correct year... we never REPLACED it. Just reinstalled it. We did not prime it ahead of time. I'll have to ask him if he cleaned it out or if he still left oil residue inside the knooks of it.
And no, the timing chain did not grind through the cover. He was convinced that the chain had stretched... I dunno about that one. I suppose its possible, but I'll just consider the itming chain replacement as a "what the hell, we're halfway there" sort of fiasco.
By spinning the camshaft by hand, I was referring to the rocker assembly being removed. We've done headgasket replacing a few times with nothing but success... this time however we included a timing chain kit. THe timing marks were spot on by the way. We know our way around these engines very well, but everyone gets stumped over something somewhere along the way. This just happens to be our time.
Last edited by XtraSlow_XtraCab; 10-20-2009 at 11:19 PM.
10-21-2009, 11:01 PM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Good guess, but wrong application.
No I meant the crankshaft bearings. THOSE are what toasted out.
The cam was hard to spin to begin with. Its a rebuilt head that sat around for a while and must have gotten moisture in the camshaft bearings at some point. But the bottom end is what was knocking. WHat would cause all four rod-to-crank bearings to crap out?
Either way, I'm going to double check on that pil pump drive gear. Perhaps that could be the culprit. Maybe destroyed something in the timing case and dumped into the oil pan.
The cam was hard to spin to begin with. Its a rebuilt head that sat around for a while and must have gotten moisture in the camshaft bearings at some point. But the bottom end is what was knocking. WHat would cause all four rod-to-crank bearings to crap out?
Either way, I'm going to double check on that pil pump drive gear. Perhaps that could be the culprit. Maybe destroyed something in the timing case and dumped into the oil pan.
Last edited by XtraSlow_XtraCab; 10-21-2009 at 11:03 PM.
10-21-2009, 11:06 PM
#7
Registered User
Cam should be loose but maybe somebody forgot their assembly lube.
As for the bottom end, to wipe them all out at once it had to be starved for oil.... maybe he didnt put the oil pump in correctly
Edit: if it was what you thought about timing parts/shavings falling in the bottom end it probably wouldnt wipe out any bearings and if it did it wouldnt be all at once
As for the bottom end, to wipe them all out at once it had to be starved for oil.... maybe he didnt put the oil pump in correctly
Edit: if it was what you thought about timing parts/shavings falling in the bottom end it probably wouldnt wipe out any bearings and if it did it wouldnt be all at once
Last edited by algranger; 10-21-2009 at 11:07 PM.
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10-23-2009, 07:00 AM
#8
Registered User
If you re-used the original rod bearings, then there's a lubrication issue. I'll venture to guess that if the engine had blown a head gasket and was left to sit around for an extended period time, there was water in the oil which rusted the crank journals and caused the bearings to fail.
If you replaced the bearings, then you had some significant clearance issues.
BTW .. the cam should rotate by hand with only some light resistance without the rockers installed.
edit: If all the bearings are toast, then you got some issues with the oil pump. Did you have any oil pressure?
If you replaced the bearings, then you had some significant clearance issues.
BTW .. the cam should rotate by hand with only some light resistance without the rockers installed.
edit: If all the bearings are toast, then you got some issues with the oil pump. Did you have any oil pressure?
Last edited by InternetRoadkill; 10-23-2009 at 07:02 AM.
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