SAS vs. Gears/Lockers when IFS needs a lot of help?
10-24-2007, 04:33 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAS vs. Gears/Lockers when IFS needs a lot of help?
Hey guys,
Looking for some opinions on my current situation. Basically i'm about to have done one of two projects, SAS or regear f/r and lock the rear with an ARB.
I have read many times over, and fully agree with the idea, that gears and lockers will do more then open/open sas. And I really do want to regear and lock.
However, my IFS is not in very good shape.
1. Both CV boots are spewing grease.
2. Ball joints need to be replaced.
3. PO had installed a larger torsion bar for a lift and I really don't like it. Very bouncy and no flex.
4. It has auto hubs that are busted. I have manual hubs sitting around but I would still have to buy the 54mm socket.
5. Needs new shocks.
6. Rotors are towards the end of their life.
7. No skid plate.
The other factor is, I have very little free time these days so I would be paying some one to do the work either way. Everyone I talk to hates dealing with the IFS so that means higher labor costs.
I do eventually want SAS either way, but I'm not sure if I should spend the money on SAS now so I don't have to sink money into the IFS or if it will be cheap enough to remedy all the IFS issues to make it worthwhile so I can regear and lock it.
Thoughts?
Ben
Looking for some opinions on my current situation. Basically i'm about to have done one of two projects, SAS or regear f/r and lock the rear with an ARB.
I have read many times over, and fully agree with the idea, that gears and lockers will do more then open/open sas. And I really do want to regear and lock.
However, my IFS is not in very good shape.
1. Both CV boots are spewing grease.
2. Ball joints need to be replaced.
3. PO had installed a larger torsion bar for a lift and I really don't like it. Very bouncy and no flex.
4. It has auto hubs that are busted. I have manual hubs sitting around but I would still have to buy the 54mm socket.
5. Needs new shocks.
6. Rotors are towards the end of their life.
7. No skid plate.
The other factor is, I have very little free time these days so I would be paying some one to do the work either way. Everyone I talk to hates dealing with the IFS so that means higher labor costs.
I do eventually want SAS either way, but I'm not sure if I should spend the money on SAS now so I don't have to sink money into the IFS or if it will be cheap enough to remedy all the IFS issues to make it worthwhile so I can regear and lock it.
Thoughts?
Ben
10-24-2007, 04:42 PM
#2
Contributing Member
Okay.
First, a kit costs 1100. New ball joints, tie rods, and all that other jazz will cost you about 300 bucks. Stock torsion bars can be had for next to nothing. I will donate mine to you. Free of charge, you can come pick them up.
New CVs are like 70 bucks, and are easy to install. a 54 mm socket is cheap.
So, 1100 just for the kit, no axle, no gears, or like 600 bucks. there is more to a swap then just bolting on. I would say, you are looking at 2k min just in parts, if you are savy, plus labor to do the swap. Find a garage, and i can help you install your ball joints, tie rods, torsion bars, hubs, and cv's. My suggestion is to replace the CV studs at the same time. (12 grade 8 bolts washers and nuts.
up to you.
First, a kit costs 1100. New ball joints, tie rods, and all that other jazz will cost you about 300 bucks. Stock torsion bars can be had for next to nothing. I will donate mine to you. Free of charge, you can come pick them up.
New CVs are like 70 bucks, and are easy to install. a 54 mm socket is cheap.
So, 1100 just for the kit, no axle, no gears, or like 600 bucks. there is more to a swap then just bolting on. I would say, you are looking at 2k min just in parts, if you are savy, plus labor to do the swap. Find a garage, and i can help you install your ball joints, tie rods, torsion bars, hubs, and cv's. My suggestion is to replace the CV studs at the same time. (12 grade 8 bolts washers and nuts.
up to you.
10-24-2007, 04:49 PM
#3
Okay.
First, a kit costs 1100. New ball joints, tie rods, and all that other jazz will cost you about 300 bucks. Stock torsion bars can be had for next to nothing. I will donate mine to you. Free of charge, you can come pick them up.
New CVs are like 70 bucks, and are easy to install. a 54 mm socket is cheap.
So, 1100 just for the kit, no axle, no gears, or like 600 bucks. there is more to a swap then just bolting on. I would say, you are looking at 2k min just in parts, if you are savy, plus labor to do the swap. Find a garage, and i can help you install your ball joints, tie rods, torsion bars, hubs, and cv's. My suggestion is to replace the CV studs at the same time. (12 grade 8 bolts washers and nuts.
up to you.
First, a kit costs 1100. New ball joints, tie rods, and all that other jazz will cost you about 300 bucks. Stock torsion bars can be had for next to nothing. I will donate mine to you. Free of charge, you can come pick them up.
New CVs are like 70 bucks, and are easy to install. a 54 mm socket is cheap.
So, 1100 just for the kit, no axle, no gears, or like 600 bucks. there is more to a swap then just bolting on. I would say, you are looking at 2k min just in parts, if you are savy, plus labor to do the swap. Find a garage, and i can help you install your ball joints, tie rods, torsion bars, hubs, and cv's. My suggestion is to replace the CV studs at the same time. (12 grade 8 bolts washers and nuts.
up to you.
10-24-2007, 05:05 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is an excellent offer, thanks! I will definitely consider that.
How long do you think it would take in wrenching hours to do that?
At that point you might as well regear while your in there, right? Have a pre-built, re-geared 7.5" third ready to go in? Or would it be more time effective to just pay to get that done with the rear?
Time is hard to come by these days for me, that's why I'm looking to pay to have things done.
Thanks for the input!
How long do you think it would take in wrenching hours to do that?
At that point you might as well regear while your in there, right? Have a pre-built, re-geared 7.5" third ready to go in? Or would it be more time effective to just pay to get that done with the rear?
Time is hard to come by these days for me, that's why I'm looking to pay to have things done.
Thanks for the input!
10-24-2007, 05:06 PM
#5
Contributing Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Between a rock and a hard place, AZ
Posts: 3,659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-24-2007, 05:17 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ide rather have a solid axle with stock gears than a refreshed IFS and 4:88s...Than again 4:10s are PLENTY in my truck, i can run 38s with them. EVen if i had a 4 banger, ide take a solid axle and 33s on 4:10s over IFS locked with gears. Why do the IFS...you know sooner or later your gonna want to go SAS. I vote this..
Weld the rear and save for a SAS. thats what im doing.
Weld the rear and save for a SAS. thats what im doing.
10-24-2007, 06:48 PM
#7
That is an excellent offer, thanks! I will definitely consider that.
How long do you think it would take in wrenching hours to do that?
At that point you might as well regear while your in there, right? Have a pre-built, re-geared 7.5" third ready to go in? Or would it be more time effective to just pay to get that done with the rear?
Time is hard to come by these days for me, that's why I'm looking to pay to have things done.
Thanks for the input!
How long do you think it would take in wrenching hours to do that?
At that point you might as well regear while your in there, right? Have a pre-built, re-geared 7.5" third ready to go in? Or would it be more time effective to just pay to get that done with the rear?
Time is hard to come by these days for me, that's why I'm looking to pay to have things done.
Thanks for the input!
BJ's, BJ spacers, removed control arms to clean paint and replace CA bushings, inner and outer TRE's, steering stabilizer, shocks. I think thats it.
Oh and rear IFS truss, rebuild idler, and place idler gusset.
Trending Topics
10-24-2007, 06:58 PM
#8
Contributing Member
That is an excellent offer, thanks! I will definitely consider that.
How long do you think it would take in wrenching hours to do that?
At that point you might as well regear while your in there, right? Have a pre-built, re-geared 7.5" third ready to go in? Or would it be more time effective to just pay to get that done with the rear?
Time is hard to come by these days for me, that's why I'm looking to pay to have things done.
Thanks for the input!
How long do you think it would take in wrenching hours to do that?
At that point you might as well regear while your in there, right? Have a pre-built, re-geared 7.5" third ready to go in? Or would it be more time effective to just pay to get that done with the rear?
Time is hard to come by these days for me, that's why I'm looking to pay to have things done.
Thanks for the input!
If you have a third ready to go, no problem. I have done my own, I will not set up others. There is too much possibility of an expensive screw up. The third will be easy, and can be done at the same time. It makes the front CV change even easier. I was planning on removing your front diff anyway, since it is easiest to swap out for bolts rather than studs.
Since you are considering, I am not available really, for a while. I have a number of things i need to do in the mean time, not the least of which is a move. If you decide to do it, PM me, and we can discuss dates. It won't be immediate.
10-24-2007, 07:04 PM
#9
Contributing Member
Ide rather have a solid axle with stock gears than a refreshed IFS and 4:88s...Than again 4:10s are PLENTY in my truck, i can run 38s with them. EVen if i had a 4 banger, ide take a solid axle and 33s on 4:10s over IFS locked with gears. Why do the IFS...you know sooner or later your gonna want to go SAS. I vote this..
Weld the rear and save for a SAS. thats what im doing.
Weld the rear and save for a SAS. thats what im doing.
My truck is IFS. Dual ARB's, a butt load of gearing, and 33's. I am willing to bet there aren't more than 4-5 trails around the country you can get a full bodied truck up with out damage that my truck can't do.
Also, ever changed a birfield on the trail? I can do my CV's in 15 mins if I hurry. You can't even come close to that with a birf.
A solid axle with stock gears is NO STRONGER than IFS. Get longs and you are WAY ahead of the game. A SAS with stock axle shafts is spending 1500 or so to get more travel and stronger steering. Zero axle strength upgrade.
10-24-2007, 08:25 PM
#10
Contributing Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Between a rock and a hard place, AZ
Posts: 3,659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is very funny.
My truck is IFS. Dual ARB's, a butt load of gearing, and 33's. I am willing to bet there aren't more than 4-5 trails around the country you can get a full bodied truck up with out damage that my truck can't do.
Also, ever changed a birfield on the trail? I can do my CV's in 15 mins if I hurry. You can't even come close to that with a birf.
A solid axle with stock gears is NO STRONGER than IFS. Get longs and you are WAY ahead of the game. A SAS with stock axle shafts is spending 1500 or so to get more travel and stronger steering. Zero axle strength upgrade.
My truck is IFS. Dual ARB's, a butt load of gearing, and 33's. I am willing to bet there aren't more than 4-5 trails around the country you can get a full bodied truck up with out damage that my truck can't do.
Also, ever changed a birfield on the trail? I can do my CV's in 15 mins if I hurry. You can't even come close to that with a birf.
A solid axle with stock gears is NO STRONGER than IFS. Get longs and you are WAY ahead of the game. A SAS with stock axle shafts is spending 1500 or so to get more travel and stronger steering. Zero axle strength upgrade.
10-24-2007, 08:42 PM
#11
Contributing Member
Awwwwwww, DANG IT... i always forget that! [chris farley voice] SON OF A...[/chris farley voice]
Thanks for reminding me TacoClimber...I can't believe I'm so forgetful...Must be my mad cow disease.
Thanks for reminding me TacoClimber...I can't believe I'm so forgetful...Must be my mad cow disease.
10-24-2007, 08:46 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is great advice, thanks.. The point about axle strength is a huge factor, as is the point about the ease of CV replacement vs. birf replacement.
I think I'm leaning towards dealing with the IFS for now. Plus any axle I swap on will basically be in unknown working condition unless its rebuilt which further adds to the cost. I should wait to sas until I have the money to build the axle right.
I know I can't wheel it being IFS and all, but it'll look cool at the mall..
BTW what size tires can I fit under a 2" lift? (j/k)
Ben
I think I'm leaning towards dealing with the IFS for now. Plus any axle I swap on will basically be in unknown working condition unless its rebuilt which further adds to the cost. I should wait to sas until I have the money to build the axle right.
I know I can't wheel it being IFS and all, but it'll look cool at the mall..
BTW what size tires can I fit under a 2" lift? (j/k)
Ben
10-24-2007, 08:57 PM
#13
Registered User
I replace my BJ's upper & lowers added BJ spacers, Downey truss ,Downey 26mm bars, removed the sway bar and it took me by myself 8hrs. And it was the first time doing this. I plan on re gearing, adding double case and at least a rear locker.Here is a link to my post https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-today-118082/
it has pics of the BJ's & BJ spacers, truss and torsion bars. Not in the post but I ended up replacing Idler arm, which took all 1/2 hour. If and when you SAS the locker in the rear end will still be there, so locking the rear is a no brainier.
it has pics of the BJ's & BJ spacers, truss and torsion bars. Not in the post but I ended up replacing Idler arm, which took all 1/2 hour. If and when you SAS the locker in the rear end will still be there, so locking the rear is a no brainier.
10-24-2007, 09:09 PM
#14
Contributing Member
Post up on the House of Wrenching Thread on Cottora if you want to schedule a weekend to do it at the H.O.W.... But looks like weekends are filling up fast there... everyone has a project. 
http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80249
Isaac knows his dirt on this issue as does ~tc~ They both have extensive expereince with IFS and the costs involved.... And Troy and Isaac's IFS rigs can go anywhere my rig can go without incuring too much body damage...
Oh and we are getting together this weekend if you want to come over and meet the crew... and get some better ideas for your planning!
http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83801 (Sorry I am not trying to drive you to ttora... that just happens to be where the H.O.W plans are put together, but the H.O.W is open for CoTTORA and Yotatechh members alike!!
http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80249
Isaac knows his dirt on this issue as does ~tc~ They both have extensive expereince with IFS and the costs involved.... And Troy and Isaac's IFS rigs can go anywhere my rig can go without incuring too much body damage...
Oh and we are getting together this weekend if you want to come over and meet the crew... and get some better ideas for your planning!
http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83801 (Sorry I am not trying to drive you to ttora... that just happens to be where the H.O.W plans are put together, but the H.O.W is open for CoTTORA and Yotatechh members alike!!
Last edited by Lysmachia; 10-24-2007 at 09:12 PM.
10-24-2007, 09:32 PM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow! That's really cool you guys offer up your house and time like that!! Help like that and a chance to meet some cool people is pretty hard to pass up.
Who would you guys suggest for prebuild 7.5" thirds? Marlin doesn't have them on his website.. I wasn't sure if he dealt with those at all..
What about NorthWestOffRoad.com?
I think I might have to schedule some time at H.O.W. Gotta get my ducks in a row first though..
Thanks!
Who would you guys suggest for prebuild 7.5" thirds? Marlin doesn't have them on his website.. I wasn't sure if he dealt with those at all..
What about NorthWestOffRoad.com?
I think I might have to schedule some time at H.O.W. Gotta get my ducks in a row first though..
Thanks!
10-25-2007, 04:34 AM
#17
Contributing Member
turbo, getting the IFS third prebuilt is going to be tricky. You'd be better off getting a junk yard third, or buying one from someone who has recently swapped, and having the new gears put in. With the diff out of the truck, a gear install goes for around 200 bucks in the denver area. There are certified Toyota techs as well that will do it for cheaper, but I can't offer their services for them.
Molly and Troy's House of Wrenching would be IDEAL. Again, couldn't offer it for them. With their help, It would take one day. Not two.
Molly and Troy's House of Wrenching would be IDEAL. Again, couldn't offer it for them. With their help, It would take one day. Not two.
10-25-2007, 07:42 AM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Score!
I love craigslist..
I just found (and I'm going to check them out/buy them asap. Don't any of you try to snatch them up!) a front third already build with 4.88s and a TrueTrack and the rear third with 4.88's open. Listed @ $750 for both with only 5000 miles on them. He says "professionally setup". Both diffs have all new bearings, seals and bolts. Seems like a good deal, right? I can't afford two ARB's right now anyway, but I can swing this and TrueTrack's better then open...
Anything I should keep an eye out for when I go to check them out?
Then I'd just have to install the ARB in the rear and swap them. I found a great writeup on how to install an ARB in the rear. (Thanks Ike)
I just found (and I'm going to check them out/buy them asap. Don't any of you try to snatch them up!) a front third already build with 4.88s and a TrueTrack and the rear third with 4.88's open. Listed @ $750 for both with only 5000 miles on them. He says "professionally setup". Both diffs have all new bearings, seals and bolts. Seems like a good deal, right? I can't afford two ARB's right now anyway, but I can swing this and TrueTrack's better then open...
Anything I should keep an eye out for when I go to check them out?
Then I'd just have to install the ARB in the rear and swap them. I found a great writeup on how to install an ARB in the rear. (Thanks Ike)
