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Rebuilt motors vs stock toyota motor

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Old 09-11-2018, 10:16 PM
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Rebuilt motors vs stock toyota motor

So how well do rebuilt 22r and 22re motors hold up compared to the factory built motors that rolled off the line? This is of course almost a meaningless question unless you take into account which brand of parts you use. The least expensive rebuild parts I find are from Car Parts Wiz on ebay - Selling incredibly inexpensive rings, bearings, heads, gaskets, water and oil pumps, etc etc. Many people seem to use the DNJ stuff which is mid level prices. LCE sells some of the more expensive parts. Seeing as how many people use DNJ that seems like a good place to start. How well does a rebuilt 22r with DNJ (or similar) components hold up compared to a factory built 1980s Toyota motor? Have any of you gotten 300,000 miles+ out of your rebuilt motor?
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:27 AM
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Red face

Then what do you call a failure ?

Failed coolant hose causing a head gasket failure maybe a cracked head .

Failed bearing be it rod or main .

Take into account factory built Engines are using all new parts !!

Even so you can still get a poorly built engine brand new that is what warranties are for.

Then do you want to go with a rebuilt using all new parts but the block ?

Rings and bearings and call it good ?

I rebuilt a 22re for my Celica using a mix of parts from Engine Builder and what brand my machine shop used .

My machine shop did the short block I put the rest together .

When I got rid of the car it had a little over 200,000

Depends on who does the rebuild and just what was done.

Not sure just where your going with this question
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wyoming9 View Post
Then what do you call a failure ?

Failed coolant hose causing a head gasket failure maybe a cracked head .

Failed bearing be it rod or main .

Take into account factory built Engines are using all new parts !!

Even so you can still get a poorly built engine brand new that is what warranties are for.

Then do you want to go with a rebuilt using all new parts but the block ?

Rings and bearings and call it good ?

I rebuilt a 22re for my Celica using a mix of parts from Engine Builder and what brand my machine shop used .

My machine shop did the short block I put the rest together .

When I got rid of the car it had a little over 200,000

Depends on who does the rebuild and just what was done.

Not sure just where your going with this question
You took all the words outta my mouth
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:12 AM
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^^ Yes!

Typically, the original factory engine is the best you are going to get. You will have to be pretty anal and OCD to achieve better than the original engine (it can be done). The original engines have the advantage of all parts being high quality and new, with very repeatable, factory processes that have been perfected before going into production. The quality of rebuilds very quite a bit; everything from "it worked for 5 minutes before a giant hole appeared in the block" to "this engine is smoother then original, and now has 200,000+ miles on the rebuilt engine".

The reliability and longevity of a rebuilt engine depends a lot on the parts used, the accuracy and precision of the machine work, and the attention to detail of the engine builder when assembling the parts.

All parts, even new ones, should be carefully inspected for issues, measured, and checked against factory specifications.

Quality parts are a must for reliability and longevity, however it does not matter what parts you use if the machine work and assembly process are sub-par.

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Old 09-12-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wyoming9 View Post
Then what do you call a failure ?

Failed coolant hose causing a head gasket failure maybe a cracked head .

Failed bearing be it rod or main .

Take into account factory built Engines are using all new parts !!

Even so you can still get a poorly built engine brand new that is what warranties are for.

Then do you want to go with a rebuilt using all new parts but the block ?

Rings and bearings and call it good ?

I rebuilt a 22re for my Celica using a mix of parts from Engine Builder and what brand my machine shop used .

My machine shop did the short block I put the rest together .

When I got rid of the car it had a little over 200,000

Depends on who does the rebuild and just what was done.

Not sure just where your going with this question
Where I am going with this question is to get an idea of how rebuilt 22r motors compare in terms of reliability and longevity compared to the stock original toyota 22r motor. Pretty straightforward.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by old87yota View Post
^^ Yes!

Typically, the original factory engine is the best you are going to get. You will have to be pretty anal and OCD to achieve better than the original engine (it can be done). The original engines have the advantage of all parts being high quality and new, with very repeatable, factory processes that have been perfected before going into production. The quality of rebuilds very quite a bit; everything from "it worked for 5 minutes before a giant hole appeared in the block" to "this engine is smoother then original, and now has 200,000+ miles on the rebuilt engine".

The reliability and longevity of a rebuilt engine depends a lot on the parts used, the accuracy and precision of the machine work, and the attention to detail of the engine builder when assembling the parts.

All parts, even new ones, should be carefully inspected for issues, measured, and checked against factory specifications.

Quality parts are a must for reliability and longevity, however it does not matter what parts you use if the machine work and assembly process are sub-par.

Good thoughts. Yeah there are so many different brands of rebuild parts. If there was a stock toyota/aisin rebuild kit I would probably buy it but I haven't seen such a thing. Are there OEM bearings and piston rings from toyota? I know OEM head gaskets can be found.

I just had a brand new rebuild last only 20k miles. A valve spring broke in half right in the middle and an intake valve dropped down onto the piston head. Did a lot of damage. I've got it all apart again and I think with a .020" overbore the block will be ok. The valves springs and all other parts came from engbldr. The truck ran perfectly for all 20k of those miles. Valve spring just randomly broke while driving very casually at about 45mph. I'm now skeptical about all parts!
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by irv View Post
I just had a brand new rebuild last only 20k miles. A valve spring broke in half right in the middle and an intake valve dropped down onto the piston head. Did a lot of damage. I've got it all apart again and I think with a .020" overbore the block will be ok. The valves springs and all other parts came from engbldr. The truck ran perfectly for all 20k of those miles. Valve spring just randomly broke while driving very casually at about 45mph. I'm now skeptical about all parts!
Look to the country of origin on all parts. Any country that has a high standard of living will very likely produce a high quality product.

USA, Japan, Germany, Spain, most other EU nations, ect...

Chinese slave labor goods should always be suspect.

I kinda hate to say it, but the Engnbuilder water pump and timing components that have come into my hands were chinese (DNJ)

I did not use them.

I suppose that even then, some chinese stuff is better than other chinese stuff.

Last edited by millball; 09-12-2018 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:29 PM
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Red face

I built that engine maybe 15 years ago

Fact of life mechanical things break it happens

I understand about being paranoid and gun shy .after I burnt down the Garage and House

Just be glad it was not a engine that you just spent $25,000 building

Check with your local Or online Toyota dealer engine parts are the last to you might still find some

I am sure We more Mature people all have are stories about new parts failing poor engine builders
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by millball View Post
Look to the country of origin on all parts. Any country that has a high standard of living will very likely produce a high quality product.

USA, Japan, Germany, Spain, most other EU nations, ect...

Chinese slave labor goods should always be suspect.

I kinda hate to say it, but the Engnbuilder water pump and timing components that have come into my hands were chinese (DNJ)

I did not use them.

I suppose that even then, some chinese stuff is better than other chinese stuff.
I was under the impression that DNJ parts were made in the USA. They are not?
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by irv View Post
I was under the impression that DNJ parts were made in the USA. They are not?
I was given a DNJ 22R timing component kit that also had an Engnbuilder stock number sticker on it.

I do not know its age but it was not newly purchased when I was given it last year.

The chain, sprockets and tensioner were NOT USA made, for sure.

I traced the markings on the chain to a chinese manufacturer, and the tensioner and sprockets had no markings as to origin.

I have no reason to think they did not come from the same source as the chain. I bought an OSK Japan set that I used in my engine.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by millball View Post
I was given a DNJ 22R timing component kit that also had an Engnbuilder stock number sticker on it.

I do not know its age but it was not newly purchased when I was given it last year.

The chain, sprockets and tensioner were NOT USA made, for sure.

I traced the markings on the chain to a chinese manufacturer, and the tensioner and sprockets had no markings as to origin.

I have no reason to think they did not come from the same source as the chain. I bought an OSK Japan set that I used in my engine.
I also got an OSK japan tensioner for my timing chain. I'm trying to figure out which particular components would be worthwhile to go for the most expensive and which ones I may be able to have better luck at getting away with going cheaper on. I know ideally top of the line brands could be used for everything but I cannot afford that. I will probably go DNJ on most components such as pistons, timing cover, head bolts, most gaskets. I will go for a higher quality head gasket and the OSK timing tensioner of course. Perhaps I should go for the hastings piston rings that LCE sells? They are much more expensive than the DNJ piston rings but maybe the rings are an item worthwhile to go expensive on. Anything else that comes to mind that perhaps I should spend bigger bucks on? Like I said I know in a perfect world I should go for the most expensive of everything but I just don't have the funds to do that.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by irv View Post
I also got an OSK japan tensioner for my timing chain. I'm trying to figure out which particular components would be worthwhile to go for the most expensive and which ones I may be able to have better luck at getting away with going cheaper on. I know ideally top of the line brands could be used for everything but I cannot afford that. I will probably go DNJ on most components such as pistons, timing cover, head bolts, most gaskets. I will go for a higher quality head gasket and the OSK timing tensioner of course. Perhaps I should go for the hastings piston rings that LCE sells? They are much more expensive than the DNJ piston rings but maybe the rings are an item worthwhile to go expensive on. Anything else that comes to mind that perhaps I should spend bigger bucks on? Like I said I know in a perfect world I should go for the most expensive of everything but I just don't have the funds to do that.
Look on ebay for NPR (Nippon Piston Ring) piston and ring sets. I have found them to be of good quality and affordable. I also like the Ishino/Stone gasket sets sold there.

The Stone gaskets are made in Japan and there is no comparison when you look at their quality over evergreen or other knock-off gaskets

The Ishino/Stone 22R head gaskets are a plain graphite type with no 'slipper-plate', and I personally prefer these head gaskets to any other type.

The 22R type engines I have built using these gaskets all have less than 50 thousand mi on them, so I can't really speak to 'forever' durability, but these graphite type head gaskets have served me well in other iron block/aluminum head rebuilds on ford/mazda engines and others. I expect the same on these toyotas.

King brand rod and main bearings are high quality and affordable. The ones I got were made in Israel.

Try to stick with a genuine Toyota head if possible.

Last edited by millball; 09-12-2018 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by millball View Post
Look on ebay for NPR (Nippon Piston Ring) piston and ring sets. I have found them to be of good quality and affordable. I also like the Ishino/Stone gasket sets sold there.

The Stone gaskets are made in Japan and there is no comparison when you look at their quality over evergreen or other knock-off gaskets

The Ishino/Stone 22R head gaskets are a plain graphite type with no 'slipper-plate', and I personally prefer these head gaskets to any other type.

The 22R type engines I have built using these gaskets all have less than 50 thousand mi on them, so I can't really speak to 'forever' durability, but these graphite type head gaskets have served me well in other iron block/aluminum head rebuilds on ford/mazda engines and others. I expect the same on these toyotas.

King brand rod and main bearings are high quality and affordable. The ones I got were made in Israel.
Yeah I was actually just coming across the NPR rings and pistons. Looks like a good way to go.

I wonder if all the King bearings are made in Israel? I don't see a lot of good info on where they are made. The NPR rings though are very clearly made in Japan.
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:41 AM
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Remanufactured and rebuilt are not the same thing, you should keep this in mind, the first is going to cost big money due to the labor involved and you would be very hard pressed to even get a place like lce, Putney or even Ted/Todd to do this for you.

Unless you personally unpack and placed that spring that broke you have no reliable information if it was reused in good shape or a new OEM or better quality..

Toyota built these to higher tolerances than you will ever find at a reasonable price, with out question, be cause they are the only ones that could match parts to the degree the did.. Noone else ever had tens and hundreds of thousands of parts to choose from all from the same factory production runs. Nature if the beast
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
Remanufactured and rebuilt are not the same thing, you should keep this in mind, the first is going to cost big money due to the labor involved and you would be very hard pressed to even get a place like lce, Putney or even Ted/Todd to do this for you.

Unless you personally unpack and placed that spring that broke you have no reliable information if it was reused in good shape or a new OEM or better quality..

Toyota built these to higher tolerances than you will ever find at a reasonable price, with out question, be cause they are the only ones that could match parts to the degree the did.. Noone else ever had tens and hundreds of thousands of parts to choose from all from the same factory production runs. Nature if the beast
I did install the valve spring that broke. I did the rebuild. And I'm about to rebuild it for the second time. This time I'm going to just use used Toyota valve springs rather than new ones. Don't trust new aftermarket springs now.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:38 PM
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Red face

Engines can be tricky I have seen the big buck ones explode in normal driving

Yet the cheapest parts with compression so low you can turn the engine with the plugs in by hand refuse to quit.

best of luck
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