JodyR

At the end of the rope here after my first 22re rebuild. The engine is weak in all RPMs going down the road.

The video is taken after the engine is up to temp. When it's cold, it idles decently and is smoother thru the RPMs - it does not surge when cold.

Things I have done already...

100 miles on fresh rebuild using ENGNBLDR parts, head with oversize SS valves and cam
adjusted valves to ENGNBLDRs specs.... twice
Checked Valve timing (I had the cam off it off one tooth initally but it is corrected now)
Ignition timing set to 8 BTDC
adjusted TPS... Within FSM spec.
Engine Coolant temp sensor ohms check out
Cleaned intake plenum
New air filter
NGK plugs , wires, dist cap, rotor button
checked MAF
new small vacuum lines and routing is correct - maybe they are a bit smaller that OEM
the older larger lines passed brake cleaner test
new fuel filter

New O2 sensor should be here tomorrow.

I have an appointment with a reputable Toyota mechanic on Wednesday cause I'm all out of ideas.

I know it screams TPS, but I have checked it 3 times. I have another one, but should I even try it if the one I have tests out correctly?

Thanks in advance fellas.

JodyR

I checked the compression and the cylinders vary between 120 and 130lbs.

Is that normal after 100 miles?

Also - it sucked down nearly 3/4 of a tank in those 100 miles during break in. Some of that was during run-in (1500-2000 rpm for 15 minutes, varying RPM every 5 min. per Tod.)

Edited for addition...
The idling was high during that video. Since then I have set it to 800RPM - it did not want to run @ 750.

Still runs like crap after setting the idling.

Rerunn

You're compression should be alot better than that but those rings are either faulty or need seating like hell

JodyR

Thanks Rerunn- What I was thinking too. I will get a bit more aggressive with seating as soon as the miss is fixed.

Also forgot to mention that I cleaned all EGR passages, but neglected to test EGR somehow. Is it worth pulling apart to check?

xylicon

120-130 lbs at 100 miles is way too low, something is wrong. My fresh long-block had 180 lbs before it even ran. All cylinders are pushing 190 lbs right now at 53k miles.

JodyR

I suspect that my comp tester is not getting a good seal. I will replace the oring and try again. hope I got a bad reading the first time. That shouldn't cause the miss though. Anybody got any ideas?

JodyR

Changed o2 sensor and no change. Not much power at all.

hiluxhack

Sounds like ignition timing is catywhompus. Go back to TDC and reset rotor to number one on compression stroke. Also, test EGR by using a vacuum pump to open it while engine is idling. It should kill the motor if it works. Good hunting bro.

JodyR

Thanks Hilux. I have set the ignition timing twice now once at 5 and once at 8 BTDC with the wire jump. I'm confident that the ignition timing is straight. I do, however, have a nagging doubt about the valve timing because that would explain the power loss and miss. The only thing to the contrary is that it still runs poorly at WOT around 3,000 RPM's. From what I have read and heard, you can still be a tooth off, punch it, and eventually get to a point like a switch is flipped and you have obviously more power. That does not happen for me.

I had the top sprocket off one tooth when I re-assembled the motor and when I corrected that, it seemed like it was just a tiny bit better but obviously it's still not right. I have been struggling with the idea that maybe I got the bottom sprocket/chain off somehow. Below is the best pic I have of the bottom chain/sprocket at assembly.

I really doubt I got it off because it is very obvious when assembling the bottom. I kept tension on the right side when putting the head on.

Here is a pic of the top sprocket when I had it off one tooth. See the little dimple on the sprocket under the shiny link? The correct way is to imagine the sprocket rotated one tooth to the left and the chain kept where it is now. I also had a helper to hold up on the chain as I rotated the upper sprocket one tooth to make sure I didn't jump a tooth on the bottom. I guess it's possible .

Anybody think I should play Russian roulette and skip the sprocket a tooth or two?????

Yes?

OK, but...... which way?????

JodyR

I will check EGR this evening. Thanks for the suggestion.

JodyR

EGR passed direct vacuum test (killed engine).

A friend of mine is bringing a good known compression tester for me to try tomorrow. I replaced the oring seal on mine and got 165, 170, 140, and 150 but I don't trust it.

I also checked resistance of wiring between TPS and computer and got good low readings - .1 to .3 ohms. I also performed the ECT checks and everything was within spec except the VTA - E2 at full throttle was 3.67V. The spec is between 4 and 5. Anything to worry about or does that give anybody a clue?

hiluxhack

I don't want to keep harping on the ign. timing issue, but even if you get the timing mark to show up with a timing light doesn't mean you started on TDC compression stroke...which is critical. You probably know more than I do, so I don't want to sound off like I know what I'm talking about, but I've seen many more rebuilds go wrong at ignition timing than mechanical. You sound like you were very careful down there. Did you make sure the no. 1 piston was up when the rotor pointed to the no. 1 position on the cap? Sometimes it doesn't hurt to go back and do things over when you are stuck. I'm just say in'.

JodyR

I know what you mean Hilux... That's what I have been thinking all along... it's something with the timing. I did check it twice though, piston one up, rotor pointing to #1 cyl, compression stroke because the #1 valves were loose and the #4 valves were tight.

I have thrown my hands up and took it to a local 22RE guru that worked for Toyota for years before he got his own place. I need it to be done. I've already missed spring camping and fishing cause my rig isn't ready yet!

It runs fairly decent when it's cold, but after it warms up, there is a power loss associated with a miss.

JodyR

The local Toyota mechanic guru put the cam timing right back where it was when I first assembled the engine - see post 9 - and it runs better! Not fantastic, but it does have more power and the surging is gone. Not sure what the hell is going on there - I guess I was off the bottom gear one tooth and changing out all the other things helped???

There is still a little miss in it. You feel it mostly when your cruising down the road, coasting on flat ground at say 2000 RPM's in third or fourth when you lightly get back on the gas. It misses worse when you are parked in neutral (no load) and slowly crack the throttle, the engine just starts shaking around pretty bad, almost as bad as before. I'll make another video this evening.

Going to look for cracked plug insulators tonight and may replace the 1 year old aftermarket rotor button with a new Toyota rotor button. He said the aftermarket ones are bad to arc thru the shaft.

He also checked the compression and 1 & 2 are at 150psi, 3 & 4 are at 140.

He also cleaned the idle screw (I forgot to do that I guess when I cleaned the intake and rest of the TB)

I still feel like it should be a little bit stronger. Maybe it will once the rings get seated and I get this miss out of it.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Pull one plug wire at a time and see if you can see which cylinder the miss is one. I would bet your igintion side is fine with new cap, rotor, plugs, rotor bug. If that is good, I would start looking at the fuel side. In side the harness, the injector connectors for 1 and 3 share the same wire and is crimped with a poorly designed crimp that can corrode and pass a resistance check. I have seen even one of the wires break away from the crimp. I remove the crimp and solder them toghter. Same thing can happen to injectors 2 and 4 as they share the same wire and can corrode.

The crimps are located in the dip in the harness between the inner fender to the intake. Here is some info https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post51897320 that might help. Also you will see two white wires with a black stripe that turn into four white wires with blacks tripe. Those are your grounds for the injectors. Make sure the grounds are not corroded.

JodyR

Thanks Terry. I'll look that over here in a bit

NickS022

I had a car that did the same thing if everything on the motor side looks good check your ecu my car had blown a capacitor causing it to surge when it got to temp just an idea

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Meant to mention that a set of injectors will be on a blue wire and the other set will be on a yelllow wire.

Another thing you can do is in a dark garage, alley, or country road, with the engine running, open the hood and look for little blue sparks. Works best on spark plug wires but can show other areas where insulation has broken down.

JodyR

Thanks again for the replies Nick and Terry

Things that I tried this weekend

- swapped out ECM - no change
- swapped out Igniter/coil assembly - no change
- checked resistance of spark plug wires - 2 to 4 ohms resistance, depending on length
- looked around all wires and plugs in the dark for arcs - none to be found
- Put in older plugs that were fine before rebuild - no change
- unwraped engine harness and checked injector wire splices - all good

I didn't do another video, it basically does the same thing without the surging.

Just had a thought this morning -

Do you guys think the miss could be caused by insufficient fuel pressure? Fuel pressure Regulator or fuel pump bad? It still runs better when cold.

Gevo

Well, the spark is easy enough to test. Two ways I have found that are helpful are.
1. Unplugging the individual spark plug wires to see where the Engine does NOT respond as expected. You said you've done this, .. the next one is perhaps a weak enough spark to cause a miss but act normally when plug wire is pulled.
2. Here comes the second way, get the timing gun and check the quality/accuracy of the flashing light on each spark plug wire. A 'bad' wire or otherwise weak signal being generated will cause a barely noticeable difference in the accuracy and quality of the flashing light. It may be sporadic, miss a few flashes when you expect to see it.. etc..

But, it seems to me that your ignition system is fine. If you are using a LOT of fuel, it could be injector related and/or fuel pressure related. It's easy enough to check the fuel pressure. If it checks out, you should pull your injectors and get them tested/cleaned. I didn't see in the thread you mentioning anything about doing this.

Also. Did you mention what the cylinder pressures were with your friends pressure tester?