YotaFan427

Hey YT,

Before we start ill ask my dumb question, Im looking at a 1989 V6 runner in AZ with 120k original miles and its bone stock. Will this be okay for CA Smog? I assume if its stock it should pass cali emissions, but i dont know if they had special smog equipment on the CA vehicles as opposed to the others distributed throughout the country. Please clarify?

So i know this topic has been covered many times by many different individuals. I've been reading and searching non stop for answers and opinions but everyone has their own needs and uses for their truck. So heres what i need advice on from you experienced yota owners...

Im looking into a 1st gen 4runner 87+ Must be EFI with AC. I like the 1st gen, the way it looks, the nostalgia, and how the back top comes off for those california summer beach days! What i NEED the truck for, is:

1) hauling stuff in the bed, going to be doing alot of home improvement projects, and need something that im not worried about when throwing lumber in the back.

2)Daily driving. It wont be the daily driver, but will be used most days out of the week i figure at least 3-4 days if not more for commuting so it has to get reasonable mileage. Im used to driving my V8 Lexus that gets about 14-15 mpg in the city so around 19+ mpg city is what im looking for.

3)Reliability, Reliability, Reliability, oh did mention reliability? This truck has got to last me. This is the reason i want an old yota over an old american truck. I know those trucks can haul, but i dont trust them to last very long without major maintenance.

4)Occasional towing. Heres where i get stuck.. I wont tow often, but every once in a blue moon (maybe once a year or every other) im going to need to tow either my vehicle which is short distance orrrr i will purchase a new vehicle that COULD potentially be 300+ miles away. So i would need it to be able to tow From LA to SF and back at most. Im not worried about speed, so as long as i CAN tow it that distance without my motor giving out or really struggling then im okay. id like to be able to get to at least 55mph highway towing a 4,000lb vehicle behind me. And going uphill (the dreaded grapevine) i assume around 30mph uphill. As long as i make it, thats whats important.

So that being said Ive read alot about both the 22re and the 3vze. As of right now im on the fence with which to go with, the 4 banger or the V6? It seems both engines are reliable if maintained; the V6 has a little bit more power but not much and doesnt seem worth it for the fuel economy you will be getting. Again power isnt what im after, it just has to be able to tow when i need it to.

I have a friend who has an 88 4x4 22re pickup and claims he goes from LA to SF and back towing cars at least a few times out of the year. He swears by the little thing and highly recommends i get one over the V6.

I figure the 22re will do 90% of my daily needs, its the towing that has me wondering if i NEED the v6. BASICALLY if the 22re can do it, ill go with the 4 banger. So right now i have 1966 chevelle and shes a big one, weighs about 3700lbs right now and she needs a tow to the shop every once in a while as shes not fully road operational yet. But thats short distance 5-10miles, and maybe 50 miles every once in a while. BUT i also foresee in the future needing to go as far as Pheonix or SF from LA which is about 350 miles to pick up a car also weighing about 3900lbs curbweight. Im iffy on the whether or not either the 4 banger or the v6 can tow those. Preferably on a full trailer but then my weight would climb to possibly over 6000lbs for 350+miles? So would the truck be able to tow a 4000lb car with just a tow frame? leaving all 4 wheels of the TOWED vehicle on the ground? Again i dont have to go fast for those 350+ miles it just has to MAKE IT. 55mph highway and 30+ up the grapevine. My bottom line question is, WILL THE 22RE DO THE TRICK?? Ive read stories on here of people pulling over 9000lbs with the 22re, but i assume thats for short distances of 5-10miles at 15mph or so. Or people pulling 3000lb trailers with a V6 3VZE and saying it cant do it? maybe not at 85mph but that seems odd that the V6 would have issues towing 3k while a 4 banger can tow 9k?

Gimme some feedback guys! I want to make the right choice buying my 1st yota 4runner!

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I would use a tow dolly when towing a car as large as you are talking about. Thing is U-Haul may not rent you one as it will most likely out weigh your runner. I would only do this for the short distance you are talking about. How is your experience? Also I live in a rural area so dont have to deal with traffic like you do. I lived in San Diego in the past and depending on where I was wanting to tow it might would make nervous for the traffic.

I use the 22re and it is no power house and I think you only get 50 more horse power with the 3.0. I do NOT like the automatic in either the 4 or 6 cylinder, both are gutless wonders. Get a manual transmission if it were me.

These trucks are 20 plus years old and I have seen some nice ones that still need some work on them. Getting one out of Arizona is going save you a lot of rust issues. I would still be ready to spend a few dollar on getting it up to shape.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

First going from a V8 Lexus to a 22re in a 4Runner you will be forever thinking something is wrong.

If your into hauling buy a pick up hauling lumber in a 4Runner will be interesting .

I have Towed other Toyota 4x4 pick ups with my 87 4runner using a Toy Dolly. a full car trailer is not going to work. Way to much weight.

I do get told I am number 1 coming down off a hill in first gear with out touching the brakes .

Towing you would have to pay me $10.00 per mile to drive on the Interstate Around here my 4Runner would be a road hazard traffic moves at 75mph plus .

It has to be about 40 years since I went up the Grape Vine unless it has really had major improvements I can guess about 15 mph in first gear

You really want to Tow get a friend with a trailer and have an adventure or buy buy a full size truck

My Engine Choice would be the 22Re over the 3.0 just my choice between those two Since I went to the 3.4 I really hate to drive the 4Cylinder.

While these vehicles are dependable something this old is going to take lots of tender loving care to catch up all the neglected maintenance. There is always going to be areas that were neglected never fails .

Fuel mileage some claim to get in the twenties I was lucky to get between 12 to 15 mpg Then the amount of stuff that seems to end up in the vehicle and live there forever gets very heavy in a few months.

A long drive for me was the 18 mile round trip to the grocery store.

That should be some food for thought.

RAD4Runner

22RE-liable requires less maintenance, easier to work on, and easier to inspect for potential problems than the V6. The manual locking hubs on 22R-E 4WD is also an advantage over the V6 4WD. Less drag and less wear on the CV Joints & boots.
22R-E gets higher gas mileage than the V6 or the V8 (Lexus)

Why not get a 22R-E for daily driving and hauling project materials? For towing, when you want more reliability, power and safety, use your Lexus.

helidriver

Air in air out. Headers, cam, filer charger going to be a must. 2- 2.5in exhaust with good cat and muffler. That should buy u about 15-20hp maybe. And probably switch to an electric fan. Towing on a 22re is going to be hard on it. Definitely the manual trany and hubs. Then just get good at preventative maintenance and no parts replacing and u got it made.

RAD4Runner

Especially these:
O.P.,
I'm not sure if Heli Driver meant to say "Know" parts replacement or "no" parts replacement?

Either way, it is good.
No replacing parts unless you have verified that they are bad and that replacing them will fix the problem. After all most Toyota components are good. It is wear and tear and sloppy workmanship that make the trucks fail, not components.
Know how to replace parts yourself to save money on maintenance.

tj884Rdlx

It sounds like you're expecting too much from a 25 year old compact pickup that was converted to hold more passengers. I suggest you rethink it. Or get a full size pickup for the grunt work, and the 4Runner for fun.

Towing a vehicle is more than the truck's rating. So not only is it dangerous to do, it will likely risk excessive wear to the elderly vehicle. Great way to test the limits of the brake hydraulics!

Reliability is not a word associated with 25 year old parts. It just isn't. And if you think you'll be using the vehicle in excess of its limitations, you may as well expect to replace every part on that truck in time.

The primary factor in old cars is UV degradation the sun has fried the life of our most rubbers and plastics. That's a lot of failing parts between two other metal parts.

When i bought my 88 ten years ago, it was someone's daily driver and looked in great shape. I bought it for $3300. Since then, I'm certain I've dumped double that into it. First a new top end, then a new complete engine. Then almost every piece that wasn't included with that engine. (Except the transmission, which has been bearing whining the entire time. It'll grenade eventually...)

For these trucks, reliability means they'll keep going, even with broken bits, but definitely expect to pay for, or do yourself, plenty of repairs. It's just age.

Now is it worth reconditioning? Sure. But be ready for it. Don't kid yourself.

helidriver

......yes......know. they are reliable for the afore mentioned they will take more of a beating and limp when necessary from the design. But things will wear out and break. Learn to do it yourself is cheaper and easier than most.

RAD4Runner

YUP! Lots of parts are inexpensive and easy to replace, i.e., look at how easy it is to replace brake pads on my thread...

RJR

Being able to pull a 4000lb load is only half the issue. You also need to be able to stop it. I haven't seen anyone mentioning trailer brakes. The only way you should be towing a load greater than 2500 lbs behind that size vehicle is if the towed vehicle has a fully operational set of brakes. It is completely irresponsible and illegal to rely purely on the towing vehicle's brakes to tow a 4000lb+ load.

You won't hurt either engine by towing a big load, provided you use the appropriate gear. Just keep the rpms between 3000 and 4000 rpm and don't lug it. You might go slow uphill, but that just takes patience.

YotaFan427

Well my V8 Lexus is a sedan, so yes it has the power but, i wouldnt ever tow with it. Maybe a small uhaul trailer weighing less than 500Lbs if i absolutely had to. Aside the point, sorry for not clarifying that before hand.

15mph up the grape vine though? thats a bit hazardous in my opinion. I dont even think the big rigs go that slow.

But this does help, thanks for the advice!

YotaFan427

Not an issue, im pretty handy when it comes to working on vehicles, at least until it comes to the new stuff out today, id have to take those to a dealership or mechanic. But this is the main reason why i lean toward the 22RE over the 3VZ

YotaFan427

Now im not very experienced with towing, but i have do it before. The vehicle i would be towing would be AT MOST 4000lbs and would definitely have an operational set of brakes. But i have never towed a vehicle with just a frame before. I usually rented a full trailer from uhaul. Could you give me a basic 101 lesson on how this would be possible? Towing a vehicle with just a frame i mean?

YotaFan427

Thanks for the help so far guys! Definitely food for thought. Im still all ears for any other advice!

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Just in case you do use a tow dolly, there is no backing up with the car on the dolly. You have three or four pivot points, the hitch, some dollies the tires can pivot on the dolly, the dolly tires and the rear car tires. There is no way of doing any backing with more then two pivot points, hitch and trailer tires only.

Watch what gas stations you fill up at and that you have plenty of room to enter and pull thru to the exit. I seen a guy with a U-haul truck pulling a car on a dolly and knew he did not have the room to exit. I tried to warn him before he got into the parking lot and he got irritated at me. I sat back and watched as he tried to back and he crunched his door with the dolly tires. He got to unload the car, unhook the dolly and redo it all. No backing at all, forward direction only and in some cases, depending on how sharp your tow rig will turn you need to watch your radius as you can dent the door going forward with the tow dolly fenders and tires.

Like RJR mentioned braking is something you need to look into. For heavy loads, you need to consider your hitch. Is your bumper rated enough for the load you are pulling? I prefer to use a receiver hitch that is mounted to the frame. You can get the hitch to the correct height. I have seen a receiver hitch that is 1 inch square or so, no way would I pull anything with that small of a hitch. The usual ones are a 2 or 3 inch square.

Most trailers are going to be 2 inch ball. Even if you are towing just the frame, you will have 3 points of pivot, hitch, front tires, and rear tires so no backing there either. If you are in a straight line, you can start backing and eventually it will start getting out of line and no amount of counter steering is going to get it back straight.

It is good you are asking as other will mention things others have not thought of. If pulling with an automatic transmission, do NOT use overdrive, transmissions tend to smoke and slip and eventually you get to swap transmissions. Also a good idea to pull the rear drive shaft out of the rig being towed to save its transmission or transfer case.

RJR

A little clarification here. When I said the brakes on the towed vehicle need to be operational, I meant that they need to be connected to the towing vehicle such that they come on when you step on the brake pedal. That requires a brake controller on your towing vehicle and trailer brakes that are designed to work that way. A towing dolly will not have that kind of setup, and I don't know of any cars that will allow you to easily or safely tap into their brake system so you can apply the brakes on the towed car remotely.

So, you really either need a minimum 1 ton truck to tow a car on a dolly safely, or a flatbed trailer with full brakes and a controller in your towing vehicle.

For your towing needs, you're looking at the wrong vehicle. At a minimum you should have a full size pickup, preferably 3/4 ton with extended wheelbase for stability, and a trailer with full brakes and a stabilizer hitch, or even better a gooseneck/5th wheel hitch.

To give you an idea of what can happen, I lost a 21-year-old friend about 20 years ago in a towing accident. His dad ran a classic car restoration business. David was towing a flat-bed trailer with a car on it behind a 3/4 ton Suburban, a far more capable towing vehicle than you're talking about. A quick emergency lane change resulted in a loss of control, a jackknife, a flipped Suburban, and a dead young man.

If you go to the Uhaul web site and look for tow dollys and vehicle trailers, you can click on a link that says something like "will my vehicle tow this load?". There you can put in your vehicle specs and the towed vehicle specs, and find out what Uhaul thinks is safe. They're obviously pretty conservative, but if you're new at towing you should be, too.

If I was only moving a car like this once/year, I'd either hire a commercial towing company, or rent a 1-ton Uhaul truck and vehicle trailer to do it right. It's expensive, but way cheaper than hospital bills, lawsuits, and permanent loss of income when you're disabled or dead.

Be careful out there.

bootscootboogie

iTrader: (1)

I think if you have 4:56 gears in a 22RE truck vs 4:10s you'd be a bit happier. It also seems to be a much more economical swap (they came in a lot of automatics) than buying 5:29s or 4:88s and going through all of the motions with that. So consider that a possibility if you're OK with going 55. People love the 22RE for a reason. It's just a stubborn beast.

YotaFan427

RJR, Your words of wisdom have been seriously taken into consideration. I am not a very experienced driver when it comes to towing, and it makes me very uncomfortable knowing this rig only weighs about 3700lbs if i had to tow with a dolly and a 4000lb vehicle behind it. The brakes on the truck im looking at have been upgraded to the V6 brakes, but still its an old truck with no new technology what so ever. If i were moving up a hill at 15mph i would definitely be a road hazard to others, and if i had to stop going DOWN the grape vine, well im not so sure i would be able to do that in a timely manner and could very well result in an event such as your friend. I am deeply sorry for your loss, that is a horrible accident and i do not intend to repeat it.

I love the 1st gen 4runner, its the only one i would ever consider, its really the only toyota truck i would ever consider as well. Of couse they make better ones and newer ones, but theres something about THIS one that i just cant seem to compromise on. So i may be coming to the conclusion that a 22RE rig will do what i need it to do 90% of the time. And IF and when i have to tow, i will rent a full size truck and trailer to do the job safely; itd put my mind at ease knowing i can stop and go without excessive stress on the tow vehicle.

SO that issue being cleared up, i dont think i will be towing with this rig. So now that leaves me between the V6 or the 4 banger, One gets better mileage but less power and the other vise versa. Is the 22RE really that slow?

I had a college roommate who let me drive his truck, he had an 85 lifted 4x4 truck on 33" tires with a carbureted 22R, and i thought it did fine around town but the highway driving? Man it struggled to keep 75 on flat ground, i had my foot in it all the way to the floor and was constantly switching between 4th and 5th.

I prefer the mileage over the power, but if the 22re is going to huff and puff at 4k rpms on the freeway in 4th gear so loud i cant talk to the person sitting next to me, then i may consider the V6. I went to test drive a V6 this past weekend and it definitely has no problem getting up on the freeway and holding 75-80. Granted the one i tested, was bone stock with factory spec tires and rear end with no extra weight in bumpers or roll bars.

Keep in mind since i have decided against towing with this rig, itd be for hauling supplies for my home improvement projects and daily use. So for gas mileage sake id prefer the 22re because i read on the FAQs that 12mpgs (TWELVE) mpgs is normal!?!?!?! for a stock truck? Im not going to lift, or modify my truck at all. At most some tires, what are factory spec by the way? I just want it too have a "dash" or "hint" of that offroad flare for my daily road going 4runner . But 12?! if thats the case the truck would never be driven, and would sit most of the time; and ultimately render the truck a waste of money in my opinion; i want to USE my truck and have fun driving it! If the V6 could get around 16-17 for city use, i would definitely consider it.

What do you guys think?

RJR

Good thinking on the towing. As far as for your other needs, a fuel injected 22re with stock tires is going to move on the highway better than your friend's carb'd and lifted unit with 33's. In California, mostly at sea level, based on your criteria, you'll probably be happiest with the 22re. In Colorado, at 5000-10,000 feet, you'd definitely want the 3vze.

Both are good engines. The majority of either will run or have run well over 200K miles without problems. Both have had head gasket issues. The 22re is easier to work on by quite a bit and will get better mileage.

YotaFan427

RJR, appreciate all the helpful advice, i think im ready to make a few offers a couple trucks! Im excited!