offset442

I'm having an interesting problem, i broke the idler arm on my 87-88 sr5 3.0 manual 4wd ex cab, when i tried replacing the idler arm i went to every parts store and could not a find a match for my truck all the arms are about 1.5 inches too long, they scrap/gouge the bottom of the frame, and force the linking rod to rub on the oil pan, and the worst part is all the parts counters only have the one that too long for my truck, i have been running the long one for some time now due to lack of choice, but its causing steering problems, and damage does anyone know where i can get one that the right size, im seriously considering to modify the ones that are too long with a welder.

Robert m

iTrader: (2)

pics of new and old one?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Just where did you look for parts??

Napa lists two part numbers for the 88 although without seeing yours who knows what is the correct one.

It is possible someone installed a steering gear from a different year.

Yes pictures would be great.

Sturmcrow

I know that Autozone lists the 2WD version for our trucks even when you ask for the 4WD version. Try asking for FA5040 instead.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...ntifier=334889

However, as mentioned above, it could be that somebody "upgraded" your steering at some point (though you would think that the idler arm would still fit, unless they mangled the frame too).

offset442

I cant find the old one its slipped into the my junk yard and probably will ever only be found by accident when it no longer matters, what o do remember distictly was that it was about 1.5 inches shorter, where the 2 little bits/ears stick out before the ball joint on the long, it did not have them and that was the approx location where the ball joint was, short one.

you can see where the top of the ball joins is being forced into the frame, I have had a lot of trouble with these idlers breaking clean off where the shaft is welded into the arm, there is a tendentious amount of force being generated that is forcing the idlar stright up and down, 90 degrees to its intended direction of movement, the entire steering rod is trailing behind the ball joints at the wheels and no leading them, i not sure what is causing this, other than the possibility that the pitman and idlers are reaching to far aft.

pics are of the the frame rubbing, the marks on the oil pan from the center rod, and what the wheels are doing when stressed

just went to the calico mountains yesterday, steering stabilizer it dust now, and my steering gear box is leaking bad from the shaft seals (calico -->http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535845) had to try and get myself in a jam so i could try out my new winch bumper that i just finished fabbing out of an 2003 ford f-250 thin wall hsla-steel truck frame

anyway im feeling that the steering is reached a point of danger, its not fun when the idlers break on the trail, and deadly when they break on the highway, so i need help to figure out what its going to take to fix the linkage gemotery problem I have.

I got this truck for $500 from a tow yard, had to put a ton of work into it to make it drive-able, problem is i feel someone has tweaked with the suspension using only stock parts, it seems jacked a bit, and there is a ton of play in everything.

i started at on point to replace the joints but got scared away by the quality of the parts that i was getting from auto-zone and orielly for that matter, they are from china and are un-tempered crap metal that snaps right off very fast, anyone know what works thats not going to break my bank? I'm having serious issues trusting the local parts stores with my life lately.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

It looks to me like someone has the wrong linkage or put it in the wrong way.

No way to be sure just from the pictures.

Has it always been like that.

No way is it correct your just waiting for trouble

If you beat this truck and have bent things so hard in the front end that also could be part of the problem.

Even the best parts are not going to cure this figure out what is wrong and fix that then replace the destroyed parts.

offset442

the linkage is the way I got it, i have spent the time to replace the a-arm bushings with red urethane, as the rubbers where totally warn out, but i have no idea what is making the steering rod jam up and down, without something that right to compare it with im lost.

I don’t think the frame is bent, at least forward of the a-arm towers is not tweaked. I drive over some ruff stuff but i avoid jumping the truck, and i don't really do any rock crawling, the truck also sits fairly level on a good level surface

I feel that the rod trailing the outer ball joints makes the "toe" generate the forces that are breaking stuff, anyone know if the rod should lead or trail?


I think that at the very least the torsion bars have been tuned up a lot, after i got the truck i let a lot of pressure off of them because I couldn’t stand the hard ride, the rear springs have a shackle on them, not sure if that stock or added in
been wondering if the ride heigh being tweaked up a bit is contributing factor?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Just what is the production date of the truck??

It is on the drivers rear door post.

I have a bunch of these trucks.

Something is sure very wrong!!

Is your relay rod straight?/

It is possible the people who you bought this from bent something towing it in.

Then with you not having the old part.

I am not sure if my Trucks have the short or long idler arm.

As none of mine are anywhere near the oil pan.

Some times these trucks are just a labor of love and a learning experience

All I can say is the relay rod should be no where near the oil pan . It is only a matter of time till you rub a hole in the pan.

Robert m

iTrader: (2)

Need some better pics. Those are a little limited on the view of all the steering components.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

How does one break a Idler arm??

If you broke that no wonder the steering is so messed up.

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

I have two '88 4runners that should be the same as yours. I got the right idler arms from rockauto.com

try them

Inferno451

We need some more pics of the whole steering system. Is there a ton of play in the idler arm?

offset442

this truck is dater Mar 88

offset442

pics continued------

offset442

more pics

offset442

ok, so these pics should give a good over view of the steering, as you can see i'm currently running a double ball jointed idler arm, that allows the steering a ton of play, but does not always scrape on the frame unlike the nice new shiny black one from autozone in the pictures, in this case both idler arms are about 7 inches from centrer to end, however my current one causes less damage because it can move, the auto zone idlers being too long always hit the frame on this truck, and normally shear off at a random time during off pavement use. i keep this one handy in case i need it because i have no idea where to get another double jointed idler, i salvaged this on from the remains of another truck, that had a 6 inch drop lift kit, which i torched out and brought home but decided not to use it

here are the motion results of the weird incorrect idler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qvJ...ature=youtu.be

skypilot: could u take some measurements of your idlers and confirm that they are shorter than 7 inches?

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

IMO, the double jointed idler is your problem - it should definitely not allow the deflection you've got in the video, and it's too short (doesn't position joint low enough on frame). Every correct idler i've ever seen is like the black idler you have pictured (fixed 90* angle and longer shaft mounted on frame), but I have seen the short version like you've got (I think it was MOOG). So it's not really an issue of the length of the idler arm, it's how low the pivot point is from the mounting holes.

I didn't see a good angle of the mounting, but this is what it should look like once installed - plenty of room under frame:

The pic of your relay rod from straight ahead proves that the idler you have installed is too short - the relay rod should be level, not higher on the idler side - this is why you have rubbing on the frame and oil pan on this side.

As for the correct black idler - what's wrong with that one when it's installed?

offset442

As for the correct black idler - what's wrong with that one when it's installed?

it rubs on the frame a lot more, and causes relay rod to always rub, and it eventually snaps off where the arm is welded to the shaft, due to the stress of pressure from the wheel toe, when static with no load and unlinked to the relay rod, the black idler barely clears the frame but then you add toe load its forced into the frame, in the video you can see that turning the wheel in and out illistrated that motion , the linkage forcing the idler up and down, this motion is breaking the fixed shaft pin on a regular basis. ans is the only reasion the weird idler remains un broken

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

when you say the "correct" idler rubs on the frame when mounted - does it do this with nothing connected to it? it should NOT rub, if you say yours rubs when mounted then i'd guess this is where your problems originate.

how worn/loose are all the other joints on your steering setup? with solid joint connections at moving spots (tie rod ends, pitman, idler, and stabilizer) there shouldn't be that much room for movement on the relay rod outside of its normal travel - especially not vertical movement like yours. in the video the pitman arm is solidly planted, but the double joint on the idler is loosey goosey (also the joint to the relay rod) and not happy looking.

you mention having had idlers break in the 90* bend - this is the common failure point. usually caused by excessive play in the relay rod/steering assembly from loose idler bushings, loose joints, and extra leverage/force from large tires and offroading. There are idler braces available to help keep them straight. Once you fix your problem, i would recommend you get one.

couple general questions about your front setup - at ride height, what does the angle of your tie rods look like? i know in the video you were on a jack, but at ride height they should be fairly flat like this:

also, what is the distance from the center of front axle/hub, to the bottom of your fender lip? this will give an idea of ride height.

offset442

google images as a tone of brace examples: most look easy to fab, did not know about these thank you

https://www.google.com/search?q=toyo...hp%3B200%3B318

Man that's a long link, the brace looks like a problem solver i shouldnt have any trouble fabbing one of those in a evening or 2.

I going to take some more measurements and mount the other arm and take some clearance shots, get back with you later.............