suprathepeg

If you've been reading any of the other post about there being a possibility of a cometic MLS gasket for the 3.0 then you might want to read the following. I have had some contact with Cometic and they are willing to look into it if certain things can be made to happen. I don't have the resources to get this done myself but if some of you guys wanna help out then maybe we can get them to come on board with us. Below is a copy of all the email conversations I've had with them.





Kevyn,

I called you yesterday rom Winnipeg Canada. I was talking to some local builders and such about a better head gasket option for our Toyota 3.0 3vze v6 they all recomended cometic. I think that there is a lot of interest in the off road community and such for a better HG option as these engines have a systemic problem with blown HGs. I am only a small builder but I deal with others and retailers that might be interested in carrying your multi layer steel gasket. If I could get some interest generated would you guys be willing to make them?


Sean,

Basically what it boils down to is getting it approved on our end. First I would need you to fill out a custom gasket request form. From there if it gets approved we then place a minimum order of 150-200 gaskets and request that a bare block and set of heads be sent in for dimensions. Overall the process takes anywhere from 4-6 months to get a gasket produced, again assuming it gets approved in the first place. There are still numerous engines in the industry that suffer from a poor head gasket design but keep in mind too that it is nearly impossible to offer a gasket for every conceived engine combination and some engines just don’t take well to the MLS design

Kevyn Kistner
Technical Sales
Cometic Gasket


Kevyn,

How does one tell whether of not an engine will take well to the gasket? Is there any way to figure that out before production?

Sean


Sean,

It is kind of tough to determine. Basically if the block and heads come from the factory with pretty rough machined surfaces and a poor head bolt layout then it could pose as an issue. As long as all of the specifications match up with the requirements of an MLS gasket the seal will be fine. But keep in mind with older engines it may not be possible to just pull off the old gasket and replace it with an MLS design some light prep work may have to be performed first.

Kevyn Kistner
Technical Sales
Cometic Gasket


So, as you can see for me to sent them a longblock to play with is a large expense considering I'm from another country, already have a lot on the go and not independantly wealthy . I'm not asking anyone to do my job for me but if we can work together as a comunity we might, just might have a good solution here to some of our bigger problems with the HG.

Note: I came accross cometic while talking to a few of the performance machine shops locally about my 3.0 project they all mentioned cometic (I never brought it up with them) and that they have had good results with them. Most said that they were the best by far option and used them on some serious high HP engines with little or no problems. If you look on cometic's site you'll see that they are very reasonably priced as well.

Please if this is something that you might be interested in then post a response here. The more demand we can generate then the more likely they are to invest in this engine.

leebee

hey sean!

im your next province neighbour and have 2 3.0's. one in the truck with 250kk and one on a stand with somewhere over 350kk's. im thinking of slowly redoing the stand motor incase the current one in the truck takes a dive. im not sure if they will swap over easy as the stand motor is from an 89. at worst, i have access to pretty much every part that i could need. ive checked with toyota canada and have been told there are no outstanding issues with my current truck, which i can only take as the h/g issue has been dealt with previous to my owning it. so, to get back on track here, yes, i would be interested in pursuing this further. i think it would be another option for us 3.0 owners to have should the h/g fail.

keep us updated.

lee

suprathepeg

Wow I thought there would be a lot more interest here then on the other boards for this but I guess not.

Let me rephrase the question for you. If a MLS HG was developed and tested would you install one on your next rebuild?

Keeping in mind that it is a much much better design then traditional HGs and are known to almost never fail.

Weasy2k

its not a matter of asking...people WILL use it if it doesnt cost a crapload and another crapload to prep the head as mentioned.

Otherwise im in for reselling, the offroad community here is GIANT and lots of toyotas around blowing HG's left right and center. I should be able to invest a significant amount of money into this if the fact that the BLOCK doesnt have to be machined. If its just the head then it will be fine but if both do then that will really hurt sales.

I will provide what i can but one thing i dont have is a block here that i can send in....but like i said i can help out money wise to buy at least half of the needed units.

Radyota

I would most likely use them if I had to rebuild/repair my v6 again. I already bought a factory headgasket kit so I'm committed to using that right now.

suprathepeg

The plaining and decking aren't really a huge concern as you'll likely be plaining the heads after a blown HG anyways.

suprathepeg

Hey radyota, does the factory one have the steel slipperplate like the rockgasket?

Radyota

I wish I could answer that. My truck and all my parts are at my parents' house 60 miles away! Yotatech is how I get my toyota fix when I can't work on my car/truck. Next time I go home I'll look (though it will probably be a WHILE). Sorry!

Weasy2k

Not all the time

As long as its the head only then your clear, just becuase most people wont want to deal with the extended labor of removing the entire engine

but like i mentioned...let me know what you need, you got my email addy

suprathepeg

Anymore hairs you wanna split??? JK email sent.

Weasy2k

heheh fire away
Trust me i want these as much as most do...awsome idea!

spindleshanks

To make an MLS Head Gasket seal, you need a finsish of about 8-10 Ra (roughness average). That's smooth like glass. Most shops cannot achieve this, and most professionals and DIY'ers will not pull the block and machine it because of the time and cost. With a regular head gasket you can use a surface finish of 40, 50, 60 Ra depending on the gasket material.

Ford, for example, on their 4.6L V8 equipped with an MLS Head Gasket recommends actually scrapping the block and/or head if there is any brinneling more than .001". Those are some very precise specs. MLS will not tolerate any irregularities in the sealing surfaces.

Weasy2k

Thats the exact issue i was mentioning...the new toyota HG's aparently are a type of MLS anyway. Post 98 Are corrected...

spindleshanks

I think there are probably some other gasket material options that would fix the 3.0L head gasket issues better than going to an MLS. I work for Victor Reinz, and they've done a lot of work 'application engineering' the 3.4L head gasket, but haven't done much with the 3.0L.
Their head gasket for the 3.0L is called Nitroseal, which is a perforated steel core with solid graphite facing and teflon coating, and is supposed to withstand burnout up to 1800 degrees F. This is a seriously high quality Head Gasket and should address all issues, while filling in irregularities on the sealing surfaces very well. Aw geez, I'm sorry, the salesman in me escaped momentarily.
The Victor Reinz MLS for the 3.4L is coated with a treatment that allows rougher sealing surface finishes. Instead of the 7-14 Ra that is required for the OE head gaskets on that application, the VR Intellicoat MLS can function just fine with a 30 Ra, much rougher than a typical MLS finish. Maybe they could do something like that for the 3.0. I'll do some more research on it.

suprathepeg

Yea this will likely be a product for people who are doing a complete rebuild. There is no doubt that they will be for people who want them for what they are more then just wanting a replacement gasket. I'll be the first to try it on my next project engine, thats fine with me. I have been told by about 4 different machine shops locally that they can make the cometic work and have not heard any local guys say they couldn't.

Its an interesting project though, would make FI plausable.

Weasy2k

Yea both are very interesting products keep me up to date with what goes down.

slacker

iTrader: (1)

actually RA on the cometic gasket is 20 ... much better then say HKS or Greddy . still , you will have to lap the head surface to make a good seal .

suprathepeg

Yea I was just gonna post this today. Thanks for that though .

phorensic

Lap it? Are you serious? We used to lap computer heatsinks to a mirror finish with 2000+ grit sandpaper. When you say Cometic, are you talking about their MLS HG? Having to lap a head is some serious stuff if it's anything like lapping heatsinks. Anyone have any other thoughts on this?

If you noticed my turbo thread, you would understand that I will probably be in the market for a MLS or copper HG. So I'm wondering, how much machining cost are we talking here to prep for an MLS HG?

suprathepeg

The cometic needs a minimum of 50 ra as is noted in the first post. That is very attainable for almost any machine shop. I have however stoped pursuing this with cometic cause they wanted me to pay for their R&D with no option for compensation or consideration and upon further research the rockgasket with the steel slipperplate and the nitroseal both seem to be far, far superior to the original stock pieces.