86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

How bad is an auto transmission on a stock 22re?

Old 03-22-2010, 09:29 AM
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I like my auto when im lazy,but my 3.0 5 speed will run circles around it
bouncing back and forth between the 2 gets confusing though, like forgetting to shift into higher gear until your wound out and dont go any fater, or your trying to shift gears in the are a blast to drive
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by waskillywabbit View Post
Teach the wife to drive a stick.

That's too hard You know, teaching somebody something... They might even like more

Take her to a truck stop and wait about 5 minutes... Then show her a woman truck driver that drives just a smidgen of a bigger truck, and has 3x or more gears...

Then take her home and watch Ice Road Truckers and show her the little Bambi 4 foot tall 20 something driving heavy haul on the ice roads...

Short of you being married to an amputee, there are no excuses.

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Old 03-22-2010, 02:36 PM
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I've had several of both varieties over a couple of decades.

I like manuals when they work well and there's no doubt that the transfer more power thru than the Autos. But wheeling for more than a few days (my 4x4 club has two 3-1\2 day events a year) with a manual, say 8 hours a day on the trail - Oh, man that can wear a guy\gal out. If it's not ur leg, it's ur arm. And show me how many people out of 10 can make a smooth start again after their rig stalls out on the steep assed muddy hill with all the trees to smash into?

That being said, my current rig is an auto. Again, no doubt it suks another 10-15 hp out of the 100 available from my stock 22RE. You HAVE to gear the TC and\or Diff down or you won't be able to go anywhere.
In fact (and this is where the power becomes an issue), I'm running 36" TSL\SX beadlocks at 130+ pounds each with 5.29 gears and stock engine\AT\TC.
I CANNOT wheel any hills or deep mud in 4 HI. The tired 22RE I have will not do it. I have to wheel in 4LO most of the time.

So, my summary is this:

Manuals suk on steep hill restarts.
Manuals get tiring when wheeling 24 hours in 3 days
Manuals are great for controlling shift points
Manuals can be more fun, but not all the time
Personally, I think manuals are more easily damaged.

Autos are good for rock crawling smoothly (especially for noobs?)
Autos suk suk the power out of a 22RE (10-15 HP I'm guessing) and so require higher gearing in the TC\diffs than a manual
Autos are easier on old arthritic joints than a manual, especially over multi-day events.
Re-starting up a steep hill after a failed attempt is way easier
Last, but not least, a person can get some control of the shift points buy shifting manually.

Um, is that is? Do I about have it covered?

EDIT: I think Autos are more durable. I've trashed one manual and almost another thru stupid driving and I've smelled more than one clutch burning up on the trail, but only once have seen an auto fail and it was after a flop, and the fluid ran out.
LOL, now here's a telling point... I SEE more manuals fail on the trail because there's ALOT more of them there than Autos. How do I know? Because that guy who flopped and lost his AT fluid came straight to me and asked for spare fluid. I said I didn't have any, and he asked around but couldn't find anyone with AT fluid.
Then, when I heard he was looking for AT fluid, I'm "Of course I have AT FLUID" but you're running a Samuri and have a manual.
"Nope, I'm running a Ford C4"
"Well, I have spare AT fluid, have at it"

Done deal.

Last edited by Dingman; 03-22-2010 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:11 PM
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I have no idea what the #'s mean, but an A340 series A343 actually is found behind the 212hp 1Fz in the last 2 years of the FzJ80.

EDIT: Holie sh$%^ And behind a V8, until 2002!

It could be bigger and beefier but I don't know for sure.

Now the "H" in the A340"H" stands for hydraulic and I've heard it said it acts just like a 2nd torque converter and if it's one thing I can tell you, it's that an Automatic transmission does not need a 2nd torque converter... But evidently those are only in the V6 trucks.

What would be cool is, if you can rebuild or replace the A340 parts with the A343 parts

EDIT EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"A340f and A343F 4wd are the same mechanically inside too but again the electronics are different."

A340 Differences?? TTORA Forum

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Old 03-22-2010, 03:14 PM
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"THE LOOK"?? Tell her ass to put her brain and motor skills to work and coordinate! It's a valuable lesson and well worth while.
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:29 PM
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The H means hydraulically actuated transfer case
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:55 AM
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i don't think autos really belong in any vehicle except maybe a pimpin' old man luxury car. you don't really "drive" when you can just push one pedal. if all automobiles came with manual trans, i'd think we'd all be slightly smarter due to better hand-eye coordination and more use of left and right brain. if i were an insurance company i'd charge more to insure an automatic vehicle because i feel so many on-road accidents are the result of people with auto trannys because they don't have to pay nearly as much attention to what's going on. for example: i know a guy who was rear-ended on his motorcycle by an 18yr old kid who had a V8/auto and gunned it around a turn while he was playing with his iPod. had he had a manual trans, he would have been occupied with driving his vehicle instead of nearly killing my friend and his passenger.

tell her that if she wants to drive the 4runner, she'd better learn how to drive a stick because it'll make her a better driver, she'll enjoy having actual control of the vehicle, and that she might find a new appreciation for cars. before you know it, she might enjoy it so much that you might be lucky enough to wake up to her practicing shifting
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:50 AM
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highonpottery is describing lazy fat ass americans to a tee... And is speaking the truth... We are dependent on luxury cars? WTF? It's the truth. A car without AC? WTF? Well, it's the truth.

On his 2nd point, I look at learning to drive a stick as a safety feature...

What if you came up on a wreck and my life depended on the moving of a vehicle? What are you going to do then? Awe, boo hoo I can't drive a stick...

Well thanks for just killing me b/c YOU can't drive a stick.

Dear god how did the population survive this long? All those standard shifts in the 20's to 50's... But princess can't drive a stick...

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Old 12-26-2011, 09:11 PM
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I know its not always cool to bring a thread back from the dead...but this information is pretty good.


The only way to have lower gears in a Toyota transfer case is to use the old gear-driven 4 cylinder transfer case. I had to find a way to mate one of these transfer cases to the automatic transmission in my truck. My 95 4Runner started life with a model A340H transmission, which has an integrated hydraulic-actuated transfer case. The transmission and transfer case are designed to act as one complete system, and even share the same automatic transmission fluid. For all practical purposes the two cannot be separated. Research uncovered that Toyota makes one other 4WD automatic transmission, the model A340F. This transmission uses a manually-actuated transfer case that can be separated from the transmission. The transfer case used with this transmission is not a type that lower gears can be put into, instead it is chain driven. Some way had to be found to mate a 4 cylinder transfer case to the A340F transmission, and Marlin Crawler had the answer. Marlin Crawler created the solution, and he now offers an adapter plate to mount his transfer cases to the A340F transmission.

The A340H & A340F transmissions have nearly identical dimensions and share the same main case and bolt patterns. Both are electronically controlled 4-speed overdrive units. The fundamental operation of the two models is the same. The donor vehicle for my A340F transmission was a 1998 4Runner. I received the transmission, transfer case and torque converter from this vehicle. The transmission swap shown here should be the same for any 1996 or newer A340F transmission replacing an A340H in a 1995 or older V6 vehicle, 4 cylinder vehicles may differ.

Follow these steps to begin removing the A340H transmission: Disconnect the kick-down cable from the throttle body on top of the engine. Cut any cable ties bundling the wiring harness that runs across the top of the transmission and the kick-down cable running down the passenger side of the engine. Disconnect the wiring to the transmission & transfer case at three plugs near the bell housing on the passenger side. Take care not to damage the bell housing, wiring, temperature sensor, kick-down cable, oil pan or filler tube, as these will be transferred to the A340F transmission.

A340H & A340F Transmissions
Next, remove the bell housing and transfer case from the new transmission. Place the two transmissions side by side. Disconnect the wiring plugs from the old transmission. Cut ONLY the two wires that go to the solenoid on the transfer case of the A340H transmission (these have NO individual connector). On both transmissions, remove the temp sensors located near the bell housing on the passenger side. Install the old temp sensor on the new transmission using a small amount of Toyota FIPG (sealant).

Now remove both oil pans. On each transmission, disconnect the wiring from the solenoids and remove them. Install the solenoid wiring (connected to the entire harness) from the old transmission into the new transmission. Use a small amount of Toyota FIPG on the plug into the transmission case to prevent ATF leakage. Remove both kick-down cables and install the A340H kick-down cable on the A340F transmission. Install the A340H oil pan on the A340F transmission using Toyota FIPG.

A340H & A340F bell housings
Next, install the A340H bell housing on the A340F transmission. Connect the wiring plug to the neutral safety switch. Use cable ties to bundle the excess wiring up on top of the new transmission. Leave the two-wire plug for the speed sensor accessible. If necessary, install the shift lever from the old transmission to the new transmission. Remove the speed sensor from the tail housing on the new transmission, as well as the speed sensor rotor from the end of the mainshaft of the A340F transmission.

Remove and save the speed sensor from the tail housing on the A340H transmission. Remove the transfer case from the old transmission, so that the speed sensor magnetic rotor from the mainshaft of the old transmission (located just past the end of the main case) can be removed. This may require removing gears from end of the mainshaft. We obtained a used magnetic rotor from a core A340H that was already torn apart in Marlin's shop.

The speed sensor and magnetic rotor from the A340H must be installed in the new transmission. This requires some very precise machine work. It is not something that can be done with hand tools. Before the magnetic rotor can be placed in the A340F, it also must be machined. Marlin is creating a kit that will include a machined tail housing for the speed sensor and a machined magnetic sensor that will fit properly on the mainshaft. Look for this information on Marlin Crawler's web site in April, 2000.

The magnetic rotor must be placed on the mainshaft with the backside towards the main case and the magnet facing towards the rear. The magnetic rotor will fit on the mainshaft, but the backside must be machined just deep and wide enough to clearance the main case first. We used a small milling machine and an adjustable center bore to do the machine work.

Modified Tail Housing
Now the A340H speed sensor must be installed in the tail housing of the A340F transmission, such that the end of the sensor is pointed at the center of the mainshaft, 0.12" from the magnetic rotor. This is a critical dimension for the proper signal to be generated for the ECU. It is possible it would still function if the clearance was less, but certainly it should not be more than 0.12". The hole is drilled into the tail housing near the location of the existing speed sensor hole. This area of the tail housing is thick enough to hold the sensor. Once again, we used a small milling machine to drill the new hole and mill the face of the area at the hole so the sensor would sit flush to the tail housing. The existing hole was plugged with a slightly swaged 19/32 aluminum freeze plug and Toyota FIPG.

Speed sensor mounted in the machined tail housing
We installed the speed sensor in the new hole after the new transmission was mated to the dual case. This was to ensure that the sensor did not get damaged during the installation of the dual case.

The original shifter assembly inside the cab would not work with the new transmission. The shift linkage is on the other side and there is no way to accommodate the new manual transfer case shifter, or in my case, the Crawler reduction box shifter.

Old shift assembly
I chose a 1997 4Runner Limited shifter assembly to replace mine. It is designed for the new transmission and has a 4WD switch in the transfer case shift handle. The switch activates the 4WD solenoid on the transfer case. Right now this switch has no function on my truck, though later it will become my ARB switch.

Next remove the A340H shifter assembly. The wiring for the park lock solenoid, lamp and OD switch were all the same as in the old shifter assembly. I simply cut and spliced the connectors from my old shifter onto the new one. The wire colors were identical which made it an easy operation.

Floor Modifications
Place the new shifter over the existing hole and mark the floor where the hole has to be opened. Carefully cut the floor and re-fit the shifter until it sits flush to the floor. Check the alignment with the console in place to get the right placement. Mark the holes and drill. I used the existing bolts with nuts on the underside. This meant it was a two person operation to tighten them. Smaller holes with sheet metal screws would probably work and be a lot easier.

The new shifter does not seal the floor due to the different hole cutouts. I glued some 1/16 rubber to the underside of the new shifter and sealed the edges with silicone sealant before bolting it down. Then I went underneath and applied more sealant to ensure I had a watertight seal.

New console
I had originally planned to use the 1997 console piece that came with the shifter. Although it looked good, it didn't match well with my 1995 interior. I went to my local Toyota dealer and found that the original console for 1989-1995 4cyl 4WD AT Trucks was a perfect match and still available in the same color as my blue 1995 interior! This console is designed to fit together with my rear console and matches the color perfectly.

The 1997 shifter assembly is a little taller than the original. The console sits about � inch high on each side. I used 1/16" black acrylic plastic to fabricate raised console mounts and cover the gaps.

Old shift linkage
The shift linkage for the A340H transmission was a lot longer than necessary for the A340F transmission. I shortened it to 10 3/8 inches eye-to-eye by cutting and welding. Be sure to keep the proper eye alignment and the adjustment section of the rod.

Mounting the new transmission to the engine was typical of re-installing an automatic transmission. Be sure to use the torque converter that comes with the new transmission. There are some differences in torque converters depending on engine, year and model of transmission.

The new A340F transmission is far superior to my A340H. It's shifts are stronger and more positive. I no longer guess if the transmission has shifted or not. With the rest of the drivetrain being direct gearing, I am getting more power to the rear wheels. After more than a week of daily driving, I also found that gas mileage increased 1.5 MPG with the new transmission and transfer cases.

Click HERE to go to the second half of this article, Installing a Marlin Crawler on an A340F Automatic Transmission.
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Old 12-26-2011, 09:40 PM
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And a link with some great information from pirate 4x4.

And a link with more information

Last edited by chethewitt; 12-26-2011 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:40 AM
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Sub'd for good info!

They covered swapping an A340H for an A340F, but what about swapping an A340H for an A341F out of a Sequoia with AWD? According to Wikipedia:
The A341F is an A340F with locking/unlocking transfer case differential to allow an AWD mode on the Sequoia.
Anyone know if that's possible? A lockable center diff would be nice.

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Old 12-27-2011, 01:05 PM
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people saying the stick gives more torque to the wheels than an auto don't get it. an auto has a torque converter and will put more torque to the wheels than a stick can if the trans gears let it. you'd need a really low 1 on a stick to match the torque an auto can put to the wheels without stalling your stick.

the auto is nice, per se, since you don't have to clutch and shift and that's a godsend in traffic. on the down-side, even with OD, you're looking at 4 gears compared to 5 with a stick. the trade off is a higher final ratio to make up for having an auto so that the final is acceptable for highway travels.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:33 AM
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Everybody says the autos are horrible but you guys must be talking about the a340h's because my 22re with an a340f is not THAT bad. I mean it's a bit slow but i've rode in two different trucks (one was a 4runner) with 3.o and autos and my truck would blow either of those off the road. It's a bit slower than a few other 22re/5 speed combos I've driven/rode in but I can still beat a friends 87 22r 5 speed on 33x12.5x15 tsl's with 4.10's and a engnbldr 261 cam, pacestter header and some bigger carb (dont remember what it was), and my truck is 100% stock with factory 4.56's and 31x10.5x15 street tires. I've got a heavy ass winch and bumper weighing my front end down too and he'll beat me off the line but as soon as he shifts to second, I pass him and stay ahead of him till he tops out just under 80. Plus, my truck will still do 101 mph (on a gps, so no guessing here). It takes a while...........but it will do it.

I never wanted an auto but when I found my truck I said whatever and bought it anyway and I'm so glad I did. Ya, 5 speeds are fun and all, but it's nice to be able to get in and go, plus it's the cat's ass to be able to have one foot per pedal when you're crawling and trying to be careful and technical.

One word of advice, don't let water get in it and don't heat it up. I'm taking my auto out right now but in all fairness, I am not the slightest bit nice or even decent to my truck, and when I say that, I mean it. It's my DD and I've jumped it multiple times (wish I still had the video of one time over railroad tracks, but it's gone), I'm on my fifth, yes that's 5th, radiator in a year, my front crossmember is dented and I've managed to gouge/dent my tranny pan so bad it started leaking around the edges. In my experience, I'd say try it and if you don't like it, sell it or swap it to a 5 speed, but I'd say try it out.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:15 AM
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trans dipstick length for '87 22re auto

I've got a 87 22re auto 4x4 that is missing the Transmission Dipstick. The part, is unfortunately discontinued, and I'm having trouble finding a replacement. Any of the following would help...

Transmission fluid capacity?
Transmission dipstick length? (with cold/hot level placement lengths)
Anybody have an extra dipstick they'd sell me?

...upon further consideration, looks like I'm also missing the tube that connects to the transmission...

Last edited by nbondi; 11-28-2012 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:14 AM
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try the auto, if you dont like it you can always do a 5 spd swap. its pretty easy, i've done 3.

if in the future you do decide to do the 5spd swap you'll have better gears in the diffs for bigger tires. The autos i have had had either 4:30 or 4:56 gears.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by abecedarian View Post
people saying the stick gives more torque to the wheels than an auto don't get it. an auto has a torque converter and will put more torque to the wheels than a stick can if the trans gears let it. you'd need a really low 1 on a stick to match the torque an auto can put to the wheels without stalling your stick.

the auto is nice, per se, since you don't have to clutch and shift and that's a godsend in traffic. on the down-side, even with OD, you're looking at 4 gears compared to 5 with a stick. the trade off is a higher final ratio to make up for having an auto so that the final is acceptable for highway travels.
That's true assuming you're ignoring the parasitic loss from the transmission itself. An automatic transmission needs energy to be able to shift gears by itself. That energy comes from a hydraulic pump which is powered off of the input shaft. So yes the torque converter will increase the amount of torque applied to the transmission (when it's un-locked), the transmission itself is absorbing a large amount of power just to drive itself. The net result is usually less to the wheels. Modern day automatics are a lot better, but 25 years ago, they took a fair bit of energy.

As a man who drives a 5 speed in traffic with a 3200lb pressure plate (a stock truck is 900lb for reference), while an auto is nice, I have no problem driving stick in stop-and-go.

I used to have an A340H behind a 22R-E running 4.10s and 33s. That was a SLOW truck. The A340H has TWO hydraulic pumps. One for the transmission, and another for the transfer case, which is why it gained a reputation of being a power-sucking pig. The W56 is significantly faster than the auto. Significantly. The only time I miss the auto is rock crawling. I really enjoyed the control I had with it.
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:34 PM
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I bought my 93 pickup dlx with 22re and auto trans over a year ago. It had issues due to neglect, but are being taken care of now. Trans is an A340F, and it had major issues. When first bought it, the previous owner said not to use OD. He stated it would buck if I put it in OD. So, driving it home, approx. 75 miles, I did not even try OD. After having it a week or so, I decided to see if OD worked. I had no issues with bucking. I did have issues with not wanting to shift properly, or downshift into low gear after stopping, and pulling out again. Eventually I had big trouble, as it left me sit with no gears at all. Trans seemed to overheat after driving, and then it would slip, and lose all gears. I called various transmission shops, and was told it probably would need a total rebuild, at a cost of approx. $2,000.00 or so. I simply was not satisfied that it needed a total rebuild, so I began checking things out that I could do myself. I decided to changed the trans filter or oil screen. To my surprise, that filter was completely clogged shut. Major reason why I lost all gears, after driving it for a few miles. After I changed the screen, and added new trans fluid to what came out of the oil pan, I had no more issues with losing gears. I still had shifting problems... It shifted manually with no problem. Since the shifting is done by way of electronic solenoids, I checked the wires, and connections. What I found was a very loose engine ground cable. When I tightened that cable, I no longer had a shifting problem! I guess even if those solenoids are connected properly, they won't work properly, if the transmission and engine are not grounded properly, eh! So, I brought my slipping almost dead transmission back to life again, and it did not need a complete, or even a partial rebuild. Because the trans did not slip any other time, I feel the bands, and or clutches inside the transmission, must be fairly good yet. The reason for the slippage was due to low pressure due to starvation of trans fluid.
I found that driving this truck on the highway, or interstate, was not that bad, when bringing it home when I purchased it. I did not use overdrive, and was able to do 65 mph plus, with no issues. Actually, driving it without OD those first 75 miles, probably helped with the clogging issue. I don't think that trans fluid was ever changed in its entire life, of 180,000+ miles. The guy I bought it from, only drove it 8 or so miles a day, so he said. Anyway, going up hills on the interstate without OD seemed to go pretty good. I was surprised by how nice it drove. After fixing the issues I found, and trying OD on the interstate, I did notice it needed to downshift to keep the speed up. It still drove fine, and I don't find that downshifting going up hills, is a major issue. That's what it's suppose to do, right!
Anyway, I'm older, and would prefer an automatic over a stick. But, if I would not have been able to fix the issues myself, I think I may have opted to install a stick trans before spending over $2k to repair the A340F. It's a difficult trans to find as well.
I suppose keeping the 22re, and upgrading to another auto trans, is out of the question. Are any other auto trans available to swap into it while keeping the 22re?
Nice all around truck, and I don't do interstate driving with it. Just local highway, and back roads, and some town driving. Got it mainly for the 4x4 when it snows here, as well as hauling lumber, etc..
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Old 11-26-2014, 04:53 PM
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1 word .... terrible

Sorry I know some guys like the 22re/auto combo but to me it is impossible. I had a 90' pickup with a 22re/w56 combo and rolled it. Found a super clean 87 4runner with an auto/22re combo. I drove that thing so hard trying to keep up with northern Virginia traffic that it cracked the head in every combustion chamber. Granted it has 33's but it is still probably slowest thing I have ever driven. In the process of doing a 5 speed swap as we speak.
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