taikowaza

I've been emailing with engnbldr SR. (Ted) quite a bit, he is a very good person and an excellent communicator, not to mention his parts and service is TOP NOTCH as everybody knows.
I've been trying to decide about his 1mm o/s valves for the 3vze and trying to learn about what kind of machine work he recommends most.

While Ted doesn't do the work at this point (he's in charge of the Internet end of things),
he gave me the phone number for his son Tod, who takes care of the shop.

I called Tod and we had quite a nice chat about the o/s valves for the 3vze and changes that occur based on machining.

The machining that Ted recommends for the o/s valves is "If you wish to keep the lower end throttle response, I would suggest not extrude honing. The port size and shape is just fine. All the short side radius is in the turn (or transition) in the port just befor the bowl, some mild blending needs to be done there after cutting the seats our for the larger valves. Bowl work is fine, we like the inside cut at about 70 degrees for the street type use".

I spoke with Tod for a while, and he said that it really depends on what I am trying to accomplish. In his experience, the 1mm o/s valves that he has done tend to boost the powerband about 500RPM. In his experience, this is detrimental to the low-end torque but really, really opens things up at higher RPMs.

I told him that my 'sweet spot' with my cams and headers is from 2800-3400RPM it seems. He then told me that this sweet-spot would change to 3300-3900RPM or so and would be very powerful up there. We spoke some more about this, he told me that headers and cams are the best combination for the 3vze, and also advised me to consider changing from a 2.5"exhaust to a 2.25" exhaust (I already did that too!).

After our talk he honestly advised me that the cam/header/2.25" exhaust really is the best situation, and that the valves might not be the best choice for me. He feels that getting a valve job and resurfacing the heads can only be a good thing, but that o/s valves and machining might not give me the results I am looking for.

I hung up feeling really pleased with my engnbldr experience (again!), it's amazing and rare that you can get such an honest and forthright opinion even when it means that I might not end up buying one of their products. I think that I am giving up on the o/s valves idea. I think that a valve refresh might be in the works if I ever need a HG job, but in the meantime, I think that I might lay off the engine for now!

This was a very good talk, I would be interested in hearing if this corresponds with the thoughts of others who may have done o/s valves.

norcalsvx

i run the o/s valves on a 22re and my combo ted set me up with really woke up the engine it pulls hard to the redline (pretty nice on the low end as well) i think a bigger TB will smooth it all out even more

javadoody

i'm curious as to your set up. what did he suggest?

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Just curious if you have seen any change in smog numbers before and after the head (if you have been through a dyno test since installing the o/s valves and head)?

I'm getting close to needing to re-do my head and for the price, it is not that much more to get the oversized valve/head combo.

norcalsvx

i have'nt smogged it yet (still have 1 year) but i live up in the sticks where they use the old style smog machines (much easier to pass) not the smog dyno. I think it will pass with my new cheapo cat that i use for smog

norcalsvx

street rv head w/ 261 c cam, i had a LCE header to 2.5" piping cat back (a few crimp bends not a true 2.5". I wanted something that would do a little of everything (dezert, rocks, camping trips)and it works great w/ 4.88 and 33x10.50's.

if i were to do it again i would have them port/polish it while i have it out, but i have a LCE TB on the way and am looking into some a/f tunnig to see where i'm at.

for you with the 3.0l i would look into swaping a 3.4l in (much better motor)

taikowaza

thanks norcalsvx for the advice! You are right of course, the 3.4 swap is the final answer!
I know it's so much more responsive to mods and infinitely more powerful.
the sad truth is that a swap is light years (i'm talking hyperspace!) beyond my wrenching skills to put it mildly!
So this will be a very expensive venture no matter how I slice it! I'm pleased with the 3vze right now, since I got rid of the jacobs it's rock solid again, and the weasy cams and that lumpy 'harley' style idle has style to spare. So for now I'm pretty happy! the low-end torque is poor, but I have been experimenting with 4-LO when going up steep hills and I am pretty happy with that! I really can't complain, this 3vze has been excellent. I just wish that I could do something to valves w/o pulling the heads!
PS. is there any benefit to be gained from adjusting/fine-tuning valves using the special tool that does not require removing the cams? THANKS!

MonsterMaxx

IF (big if) you are already tearing into the heads for a valve job, it makes sense to do the 1mm oversize IF (again big if) you have already done extensive work on the air flow.

the problem with the 3.slow is that it's strangled all thru the airflow path and you can't just address one point, it's all or a waste of time. Having said that, doing is ALL is very expensive and even then the gains are small in comparison to what you could do by ditching the 3.slow for a better motor.

I have done ALL and it's true, my 3.turd runs better than any I've ever seen. It's got good power from 3k to redline and pulls strong. BUT, I've driven a stock 3.4 and it'd run circles around mine. Add some internal work to the 3.4, exhaust and a supercharger and there'd be no comparison. The 3.4 and a bunch of mods could probably be done for what you'd spend tweaking out a 3.slow

DaveInDenver

norcalsvx's truck is very close to mine. I'm running a factory short block, an EB Street/RV head (with O/S valves, minimal work Tod does, a 261C cam and an amateur intake/exhaust gasket match), LCE header, LCE 2.25 exhaust, LCE TB, 2.25" cross-over intake tube. I added the Big Bore TB later and so my upper intake is not yet matched to the TB bore. I use the stock airbox in stock location with a Toyota air filter and have the AFM bumped 4 clicks richer than stock, running Castrol GTX 10W30. I run 5.29 gears on 33" BFGs. I only had about 2,000 miles on the engine when my plates expired. Being a 1991, I have to take the dyno test for emissions here in Colorado and I passed without a problem. When I get home tonight I can pull out the emissions sheet and give you the numbers. IIRC, my results were well within the limits here and I would imagine now with more miles on the rings that they'd be a bit lower.

DaveInDenver

FYI, last emissions test data from Oct 20, 2007. Mileage on my truck at the time of test was 191,120. I did the engine build at 187,500, so I had about 3,600 miles on the engine. Colorado limit for my truck and year in parenthesis.

HC GPM: 2.2086 (4.000)
CO GPM: 13.7983 (25.000)
CO2 GPM: 385.4784 (no limit given)
NOx GPM: 5.3946 (9.000)

For comparison, the previous emissions test was Oct 18, 2005 (I only have to do them every other year). This was a stock engine, stock head, stock AFM settings, etc. Only upgrades at the time were a LCE header and exhaust. Mileage at time of test was 180,507, so just 7,000 miles before the timing chain break (and resulting internal damage) prompted the engine build-up.

HC GPM: 1.7184
CO GPM: 8.7584
CO2 GPM: 419.1367
NOx GPM: 5.8453

High HC is a measure of unburned fuel. High CO indicates rich A/F mixture. High NOx indicates high combustion temperatures. I totally believe my A/F mixture would be richer now than before, I bumped the AFM up to do exactly that.

norcalsvx

nice how did you like the bigger TB?

DaveInDenver

LCE does a nice job. The day after I installed it, I drove up skiing and it pulled a few hills in 4th where I usually have to rev out 3rd. I'm sure at this point the benefit is primarily that the TB was clean, since the intake plenum isn't matched. Although with that lip being machined out the air flow is probably slightly smoother even without being a perfect match. I sent my core back about 2 or 3 weeks ago, so they are probably working on yours... :-)

Red_Chili

Hey Dave, I'm surprised you went 4 clicks richer on the AFM for our altitude especially. Seems like a lot?

DaveInDenver

Yeah, I'm still experimenting. With less than 2 clicks I often can't run stock ignition timing in the summer without pinging. Keep in mind my truck sees more miles commuting and highway than it does on the trail, so 90F and Interstate or traffic are killer. It also tends to be very sensitive on the quality of the gas I get (I run 87 octane). At 4 clicks I can run stock and up +2 degrees advance year around and haven't had any pinging (but this summer is yet to be seen). I'm still trying to find the right combination for my engine, but the only real issue I have at 4 clicks is the idle is slightly rich. But it drives great and the emissions numbers have been fine. So I'll probably settle at 2 or 3 clicks with close to or exactly stock base timing as the compromise.

Red_Chili

I see.
Some folks have had problems with the ring lands grenading due to too rich on the AFM tweak, so beware of that. The thinking is, washing the oil film. Not sure.