p0isin

I drive a 1994 toyota 4runner. It's only had one owner before me. I bought it December 2006. Recently (August-October) spent $1700 in parts repair and labor. after spending 1500(august)/1700 it was only maintanence like CV boots, break repair & rebuild, new cadalitic converter and exhaust, battery service. the mechanic recommended to do complete tuneup including cap/roter/distributor/plugs/wires and i did. it ran good for about a month. Then my truck started heating up quickly, one time all the fluid in the radiatior leaked, and so the oil burned all away. i had to fill both up. and also added stop a leak. That lasted about 1 month also. then to find out my waterpump was the culprit. Just had the water pump replaced as well as thermostat. the timing belt is bolted in place so that is not the problem. we had the battery checked cuz at first it wasn't even cranking, and i realized it was the ignition switch being the problem. so now it cranks but wont turn over. what could it be? The engine should start even wthout the cooling system in tacked, so i've checked for leaks or loose or cracked vaccuum hoses. all seem fine. I saw one crack in a hose by the engine. Now when I push the gas while trying to get the engine to turn over, this is horible. Even before the water pump went bad, I could at least turn it on and off with no problems. It stalled though but i made it home ok. since then the waterpump/thermostat has been replaced and filled up with a radiator cleaner and water and was supposed to drive it around like normal for 3-6 hours over a course of days. I cant get it to turn over! Just crank crank crank. please help me out....what else could be the problem.

I've only ever owned Toys. My dad and ex husband are die hard Toy lovers. They both know them well. My ex and he can't figure it out! Please help me. I just want my truck back

raydouble

So it's a V6 3VZ.....

You've got to find out if you are missing, spark, fuel or compression.

What does it mean to bolt a timing belt in place????????

raydouble

Is it leaking? Did you replace it?

What does this mean?

ayoung101

hahaha, i was thinking the same thing. no idea what bolting a timing belt in place means.

x2 on the formula for a running engine, except you missed air. spark, fuel, air, and compression.

ayoung101

stop leak is the devil. don't use it. EVER. fix the problem properly. it is designed to clog holes in your system. the nasty little side effect is that it clogs everything else too.

also, what are you saying, you ran out of coolant or you ran out of oil? they are entirely different things, neither of which is good to run out of. if you ran out of coolant you could have easily overheated which could have caused warping of your head, among other things, which is a bad thing. if you ran out of oil, you would destroy pretty much every moving part in your engine, which is a worse thing. i'm guessing you meant that you ran out of coolant, overheated, and warped your head, because it will still crank, which means it's not locked up (which is possible if you run out of oil). you need to check for compression, and i'm guessing you're not going to have any.

also, check your oil. if it's not black, you've got a problem. if it looks like a vanilla milkshake, that means you've got coolant mixed with oil.

i don't mean to make it sound like it's the end of the world no matter what the case, it could still be something simple. check for spark, fuel, air, and compression. with those 4 things, the engine should start. any one of them missing and it won't. if you find one of them missing and fix the problem, fix your coolant leak properly before going anywhere. and make sure you have black oil. i'm just telling you a lot cuz by your post i'm a little confused as to the history of what happened.

p0isin

I was writing what my friend (who worked on my truck) told me to. Please excuse me for not completely understanding what goes on under the hood. I am doing my best. I'll try and clear up confusion I may have left. So please, bear with me.



Timing belt -
My friend said the pullys don't move because they are bolted down... the belt with notches in it could be moved but he put blue tape on it to mark where it was before he removed it from the things it was wrapped around.


at some point last month my radiator was leaking and i did not know it. I noticed my AC stoped working as well. it kept running well but after a while it stalled out many times, I knew something was wrong so i checked the oil...it was out...also i noticed that there was hardly any liquid/coolant/water in my radiator and next to it by the plastic box. At that point I added 4 QT of oil and about 3.5 gal of coolent/water mix. yes all the oil burned up because my cooling system failed and allowed the engine to get too hot.

since then...fast forward to last week. my truck was stalling out and it started heating up quicker...didn't quite overheat but I knew i had a problem. I made it home, called a mechanic who diagnosed it and he said there were signs of water pump failure. I had my friend, who is smart with toyotas but doesnt admit to knowing everything, work on it. For those of you who know where the water pump is on a 94 4runner, you have to take out alot of things to get to it. the timing belt has to come off as well as the other belts and the big fan in front and a few other parts. well on monday my friend had it all put back together. I filled up the radiator with cleaner by prestone and the rest water, like the directions said. Further, it said to drive it around for 3-6 hours after putting in that cleaner. it said that it could take multiple days and to drive it normally, off and on until the 3-6 hours was reached. HOWEVER i have not been able to get it started. It cranks but doesn't turn over. All my spark plugs, cap, roter, and cables are brand new (done last month). I checked them to make sure they were all connected. Also I added $5 in gas from a gas can to make sure there was fuel. When I push the gas while trying to turn on the ignition it doesnt rev or move my RPM gauge. perhaps my fuel lines got disconnected? I don't know how to check anything else....like compression or fuel pump failure. please help. I hope I have cleared up any misunderstandings so you guys may be able to better help me.

I have checked the oil many times in the last week. it hasn't been leaking. it isnt milky and is only 1 month old. I havent let my truck heat up to the point of burning it all away like last month. AND YES it did happen where there was no coolent and no oil. it was horrible. I bought 1 gal of oil and 3 gallons of coolent/mix as well as stop a leak. Now that I know that the culprit for my coolent leak was the water pump, I have had it replaced. And yes it is true that if the cooling system wasn't attached to the engine, it should still turn over. not that it is a good idea to do that since it will get real hot real quick, im just making that point because I don't want to get the two issues confused.

p0isin

yes i replaced it. I had the guy at autozone measure out the right size and i put it on with no problem. it was small and hardly leaking, but i figured it didnt hurt to replace.

ayoung101

not being mean, but i'm trying to teach you something. i'll start by saying the "timing belt" you are referring to is not actually a timing belt. 1st, these trucks have timing CHAINS, not belts. 2nd, you can't see the timing chain/belt, it is internal to the engine. the rubber belt(s) you are referring to is an accessory belt. it runs things like the air conditioner, power steering pump, alternator, and yes, the water pump, all of which are outside of the actual engine. well, i guess technically the water pump is inside the engine, but the pulley to the water pump is outside.

next, you say you were "out" of oil. i'm assuming this means that you pulled your dipstick and didn't see any oil on it? this does not necessarily mean that you are OUT of oil. this just means that you are low. how low is impossible to tell. when this happens, because you have no idea how much oil is actually still in your engine because it is below the tip of the dipstick, it is smartest to add no more than 1 qt at a time until the level comes up high enough to see it on your dipstick, and THEN you can fill it to the "full" mark. if i remember right, when i do an oil change on my truck (22re engine, not sure what engine you have), i could put 2 1/2 qt's of oil in it and still not have it show up on the dipstick. but my truck only takes 4.5 qts when it is full. so in other words, if i just poured 4 additional qt's in it when i saw no oil on the dipstick, i have the potential to make it 2 full qts OVERfilled with oil. this can arguably be even worse than having too little oil, as you can kinda reverse hydro lock your engine with the oil, forcing oil past the piston rings into your combustion chamber. this is bad. check your dipstick again before you try to crank it. make sure you don't have too MUCH oil. i highly doubt all your oil "burned up" because your engine overheated.

i agree it is a possibility that your water pump failed, but i'm guessing that it failed partially because of the stop leak gunk you put it and partially because you ran the coolant system dry. unfortunately, when engine's overheat, bad things can happen, namely, the head(s) can warp. i'm not an expert on what happens when heads warp, nor can i begin to tell you how to fix it (other than replacing it) if it did warp. however, being that you said it overheated, i would absolutely do a compression check.

as i said before, there are 4 variables to having a running engine. compression, fuel, air, and spark. i'll walk through each of them with you.

first is compression. compression checks are not hard to do. you just need a compression guage, available at any auto parts stores. to use it, you remove the spark plugs, one at a time, and plug the guage into the spark plug hole. then you turn the engine over and read the pressure on the guage. i do not know what it's supposed to be, cuz i don't know which engine you have. you repeat this for every cylinder you have. ideally, each cylinder will have roughly the same compression, all within a given standard range. when there is a compression problem, there will be significantly lower compression on that one (or multiple) cylinders. i can think of 3 reasons to have low compression. 1, something bad happened with the valves (head warped, valves got bent, etc), 2, your piston rings are fried (could happen if you run too little or too much oil), or 3, your head gasket has blown. in my opinion, hope for the head gasket if you have low compression.

next is fuel. i highly doubt your fuel lines are disconnected, unless your friend had a reason to disconnect them. they will not just fall off. and if they did, believe me, you would know it. you would smell it and gas would be everywhere too. but that brings me to my next point. you have to make sure you have fuel getting to the injectors. the only way i know of doing this is to pull off a fuel line and crank over the engine. if fuel comes out, you're probably getting fuel to your injectors. you can do this in multiple locations, but i would pull a line off somewhere PAST the fuel filter, that way you can rule out both a fuel pump problem and a clogged fuel filter at the same time. you can pull off a fuel line, but be careful with the banjo bolt, there are 2 washers, one on either end of the block, don't lose either of them or you will have a major fuel leak after you put it back together. i know from experience that they are hard to find replacements. another place you could check for fuel is at the injectors themselves. pull the injector out, crank the engine, and see if a mist comes out of the injector. on my engine, the easiest place to check is a fuel line going into the throttle body, in this case at the cold start injector. while this would rule out the fuel pump and the fuel filter, it still wouldn't tell me anything about the fuel injectors, which is why i also suggested pulling the fuel injectors and checking them (i'm guessing it's unlikely that you have an injector problem though).

next up is air. to get an engine to run, you don't just need fuel. you actually need a fuel/air mixture, the ratio of which is mixed properly by your vehicle. this one is the easiest to check for. unfortunately it's also the most UNlikely that this is your problem. just pull open your air filter assembly and make sure it's not completely clogged. i have seen these things suck up a plastic grocery bag and cut air off from the engine, so it is possible to completely cut off air to the engine. a dirty air filter most likely would not be able to keep your engine from starting. it could cause it to run a little rough, but i highly doubt it would keep it from starting. if for some reason you don't have an air filter in the air filter box, then take off the other end of the tube that goes into your intake and make sure nothing is clogging that as well. again, this is highly unlikely that this is your problem, but it's still a part of the running engine equation.

last but not least is spark. this one is fun to check. and by "fun" i mean it can be extremely painful cuz you have the potential to zap yourself with 100,000 volts (NOT exaggerating) if you do it wrong (don't worry, it won't kill you, or even do any actual damage, it just hurts for a second)(anyone who has ever checked spark on any engine has done this, myself included). to do this you have to remove the spark plug. after the plug is removed from the engine block, plug the wire back onto the plug. set the threads of the spark plug on basically anything that is metal in your engine compartment (known as "grounding it out"). then, while you ARE NOT TOUCHING IT (i capitalized it for a reason), turn the engine over. if you see a tiny little spark zapping constantly on the end of your spark plug, then you have good spark on that plug. repeat this for every spark plug you have, 1 at a time. again, DO NOT TOUCH THE PLUG OR THE WIRE WHILE TURNING THE ENGINE OVER. it hurts. a lot. but as long as the engine isn't turning over, you're fine.

my fingers are tired now. hope this helped at least a little. anyone else care to add to this? i guess i should also ask everyone else too, did i mis-speak on anything?

sb5walker

Ignore the comment about the timing chain, since that is only true for the 4 cylinder engine, and it's clear you have a v6, which does have a timing belt.

I'm confused by your claim that you put 3.5 gallons of coolant/water mix into your radiator, since the total cooling system capacity is about 2.5 gallons, and since some fluid always remains in the heater core and pockets in the block, you'll never be able to add even the 2.5 gals. So - ???

Also, oil does not just "burn up" and disappear when a motor gets hot, unless it gets hot enough to melt every bit of plastic and rubber in the engine compartment, but the motor would seize up long before that. It is possible to burn oil if it gets inside the cylinders, but you will have clouds of blue white smoke coming out of the tailpipe if that were the case. It's also possible that oil will leak out, but you will see pools of oil under the car after you've parked it. You say you added 4 quarts of oil - that's 80 % of the oil required to bring the level up to the full mark on the dipstick. Are you saying it took 4 quarts to bring the level up to the full mark on the dipstick? If so, where did it go - did it leak out or burn in massive clouds out the tailpipe?

As for the coolant, it too doesn't just disappear, it either leaks out or gets into the cylinders and burns out the tailpipe in white steamy clouds that have a sweetish odor. A bad water pump can cause a leak, but the coolant will wind up in puddles under the car - did that happen? Or did it go out the tailpipe in white clouds?

Either way, as ayoung101 pointed out, if it is true your engine was run without coolant or 80 % of its oil, there is little chance that your motor is any good. If you want to know for sure, have a compression test run, and if low, a leakdown test will give more information about where the compression leaks are. Either way, assuming the info you've given is largely correct, it will probably be time for a new engine. It sounds like the current one has been abused beyond the point where it would be wise to try to rebuild it.

ayoung101

ooops, i apparently missed the part about it being a V6. but i'm pretty sure she was still talking about an accessory belt, not the timing belt.

HOWEVER, that brings up another point. it's also possible that she jumped a tooth or 2 on the timing belt, throwing her timing out of whack and possibly causing an unknown number of other problems.

first things first. strat with a compression check.

okie81

I'm even more confused after reading this whole thread so count me in too

Team420

If it ran before you did the timing belt, and it wont run now....it stands to reason that your timing is off.

p0isin

I am greatful for the knowledge you guys have provided so far. I don't take any info as being "mean" at all, so say your thing dont worry about that. I'm only know what i am told. The timing belt i am refering to is the one that has a plastic cover over it and it has teeth. All the mechanics that have looked at it have all called it a timing belt. it is not a chain. Yes it is a V6 22RE 3.5L 1994 Toyota 4Runner 4 wheel drive. I love my truck but have no clue whats going on under the hood. thank you for helping me understand. please don't stop. lol. im not offended at all to be told im wrong or simply dont understand. ...thats why i am here

I met this nice guy at auto zone and was trying to describe the problem to him. He offered to come take a look at it for free! He came by today. He found that there was waay too much oil in the engine and my k & N air intake hose. He cleaned all of it out for me and drained about 3 quarts to bring my tank back down to the full level. I feel dumb cuz im the one who added oil thinking it was empty. But I was checking it when it was hot so all the oil was in the engine and not the bottem. Anyways after he cleaned that out we tryed to get it to start....same thing. it cranks but no turn over. so he continued troubleshooting and we drained and flushed the radiator. he also said never add that fix a leak . god i feel even more stupid for doing that!! but we added water and flushed it clean. i told him that my friend (who worked on the water pump) marked the timing belt so the teeth/notches match up and he said he didnt move the pully. He checked the numbers to the timing specs on this sticker under neath the hood. he said the bottom was right, but that he had to take the plastic cover off to see if the timing on the top is right...he is comingback tomorrow to do that. he stongly believes that timing belt is the issue that will solve my problem.

For those of you confused about the COOLENT/WATER PUMP and me adding coolent/fix a leak, below i am going to try again to explain a time line of what happened up to current:

YES I think I added about 3.5 gallons of coolent/water mix, it was that empty!!! maybe my memory is bad. That is what I recall. But it could have been 2.5 gallons. Please excuse me for not knowing or remembering.

When my radiator was almost empty or completely empty last month...(I believe it leaked slowly...or maybe the fix a leak totally broke it, but either way it was leaking, i don't recall any puddles, but i park on a black tar paved drive way and didnt notice if it was puddled wet if it ever was). Apparently it had a leak and i didn't know it until it started stalling and on that day i found out it was heating up almost over heating and causing me to stall out. In order to fix that i had to add coolent, and by my mistake i also added fix a leak...it only worked for a month.

fast foward to last week: MY truck started stalling out again....the newly added coolent/fix a leak i added last month didnt leak out at this point but a mechanic said my water pump was the problem and where the leak was comming from orriginally. at that point the engine started/turned over and drove...but drove badly and made a horrible clanking sound...when driven, stalling occured, but i made it home and home is where it is now.

Currently....after the new water pump/thermostat has been put in, (and to do that the timing belt was moved, my friend swore that he put it back notch for notch) now my engine cranks but does not turn over. the mechanic that came over today thinks that the timing belt is my issue and thinks the timing belt with the notches may be off. he is going to open it up tomorrow and check. he checked the spark from the spark plugs..he said they were good. he double checked the firing order also. when i push the gas peddal while cranking there is no "rev" sound. he replaced about 1' 6" of hose i forgot where he said it went to.


FYI: I've never ran the truck while it was over heated. It experienced running problems before over heating....and although the temperature gauge showed higher than the middle marker but not over heating/ or in the red. When it did get hot, i would wait a long time for it to cool before I drove it home and i drove it with the heater full blast to prevent it from overheating. no heads got warped. it didnt get that hot. so my truck has never actually over heated to this day. not once. just got really hot and the leak occured. That really sucks to find out that the fix a leak could have caused the water pump to die. damnit! skrew the jerks that sell it and make it. it also has a really oily substance and i found out today that you shouldnt put oily things in the radiator.


ABOUT THE OIL: I DONE MESSED UP!~!! I was informed today by you guys and by the nice guy thats diagnosing it for free that I had about 3 quarts too much oil in. WHICH MEANS when i added oil last month thinking it was low....i added waaay too much. (god i wish i was smarter mechanically, but i am not! lol i only know what im told) I was even with my boyfriend that day, who doesnt know cars very much either and agreed that my oil and radiator was low. Anyways...no the oil didnt burn up because the coolent was low. I learned that today. The mechanic today drained 3 quarts and brought the measure stick back down to the "F" line.



for my sake i hope you are wrong in saying the motor is bad. no one thats checked out the truck has said that. no one said there was anything wrong with the engine either. i didnt drive or run it overheated, but since i put too much oil there was oil where the air intake was. he said that was bad and he cleaned it out. I'm going to mention to the new mechanic guy to bring a compression tester tomorrow. he hasn't completely eliminated that it may be a fuel pump/filter issue yet either. he also said he is bring a timing belt tool. anything else i should tell/ask him?

raydouble

Had to stop here, will read the rest here in a minute but what you have is a 3VZFE V6 3.0L......the 22RE I4 is a 2.4L.

theAuthority

Wow, this is a lot of reading.

I'm going to start by saying "whatever I say below do not take it in an offensive manner, it is not specifically what I intended when I said it"

That being said

1. I feel like i'm reading a horror novel where you are the mass murderer and the victim is your poor 4 runner.

2. you need a new boyfriend.

3. Spend an hour or so on youtube and google 'checking oil' or 'changing tire'. The basic knowledge is extremely important.

4. I hope you give that guy whatever he wants for looking at your car in person for free, WHATEVER HE WANTS.

5. You don't seem like a stupid or ignorant person in any way, just un-informed.

6. Get a new boyfriend - did I say that already?

I am ALWAYS available to answer stupid questions about vehicles. PM ME and i'll answer it through there or through text or even talking.

I sit on my butt all day in my office on the phone, so I'm always available.

I hope you get it figured out. I would be suprised if the motor runs after all this.

Coolant leaking, oil overfill, stop leak, timing skipping a couple teeth, overheating

Good luck to you hun

p0isin

BEFORE SEPTEMBER ISSUES AND ALL OF THE CURRENT ISSUES :
I took my truck to a shop to have the cadalitic converter
done, and the guy gave me a laundry list of to do to it. I spent $1500 there. He wanted to flush the radiator, but I said not to, and just do the big stuff...anyway..The mechanic that I took it to has a shop here locally. He is my boyfriends dads fleet mechanic, so was reputable.

This was back August....(ABOUT ONE MONTH BEFORE ALL THE PROBLEMS). . He did my cadallic converter, cv boots, exhaust system, fixed oil leak, and all new breaks, battery service, and i think that was all.

Anyways...i called him when I found out my radiator was leaking and my AC was working poorly! He is the one who said that all my oil burnt up because my engine got too hot. He said that over the phone. (again, i only know what I am told, I know that my saying that has got all of you scratching your heads...but i have learned that i added too much oil and it didnt burn up at the time i added more oil (about 3 quarts). I never told him it over heated, but i did tell him my AC stopped working well and that the coolent had all been leaked out. After I added coolent my AC started working !!!

Team420

Its actually a 3vze 3.0l.... the 3vzfe was in camry's I believe...and I still think the timing is off... Someone that has never done a t-belt on these motors would almost certainly get it 1-2 teeth off on the first try, and if they didnt spin it over a couple times by hand to make sure the marks still lined up.....it prolly wasnt done right.

theAuthority

Seems like you're getting a lot of problems that aren't related.

A/C developing a leak or going warm has NOTHING to do with the rest of your engine.

It is a sealed system that is powered by an A/C pump that is turned by the motor with a belt.

Low Coolant can cause your motor to get hot BUT NOT burn up all the oil in your motor.

It would cause the motor to warp first and push the oil into your cylinders.

Noting that all of the work you've done to it, will be extremely hard to diagnose without seeing it in person and being able to touch it.

Best guess - Timing belt.

I love seeing women come on here and join the community, you are just as capable as us to fix this. But right now, you need someone in person to help you with it, who knows what they're doing.

That gentlement who helped you already, you need him, or someone like him who will work for cheap or free.

p0isin

theAuthority---- lol

ok my boyfriend doesnt know cars, but he is a great computer hacker/computer repairsman. we're both computer people. he sauders small things and modifies game consols. I build/refurbish/repair computers and have a degree in computer networking from ITT Tech. so yea we're completely stupid about cars. we both admit it.

I know its a horror story...i never meant to axe my 4runner. i love that thing so much. but I think i f'd it up so bad because of the oil and fix a leak . I hope that from here on its easy stuff. Further...I hope that we rescue it from being FUBAR. i will keep you posted. I tried to change a tire once.. but i couldn't get the wheel cover off of one because it was screwed on with a socket (all other others have scews and just require a screw driver). I got all new tires for the thing too. BUT: I have put $1800 into it in the past 3 months. I've had it since '06 and have done general maintence. I LOVE 4runners. i will never own a jeep (whoever mentioned that above).

Today, the guy that came to fix/diagnose it for free...I gave him $50 bucks. he was so generous with his time and help and i recognize that. When he comes tomorrow; I offered to give him a free hacked cable modem and fix his slow laptop and tip generously. I made him grilled cheese/tomatoe soup and brought him cold drinks. I do recognize his generosity.

p0isin

the AC was fixed after i added coolent last month. the AC hasnt been a problem since i added coolent. it wasnt leaking frion or anything else.

yes today i learned that the no/low coolent would not burn my oil. I feel retarded...but hey, i learned.