This engine bottom end stuff is getting confusing.....
 

To the inexperienced, such as myself, it appears I have two different size cylinder in my 22re. The front two pistons have "Toyota" and "Art" stamped on them, while the back don't have this stamped on them. Also, they are numbered different.

What gives? Why do they have different size pistons? Thanks.

vmax84

I'm just about done trying to figure all this out and simply take the block to the machinest, let him bore it, and rebuild the bottom end for me. I just don't want to goof it up.

Two of the pistons are size 1, while the other two are size 2. What gives? Couldn't they simply have bored all the cylinders all the same size?

vmax84

Might it have been a cheapy reman engine at some point

Has anybody else ever discovered this when tearing an engine down.......two different types of pistons in their engine?

vmax84

Yes i have vmax its not that unusual... For instance in a factory toyota from time to time there are slightly (very slightly) different size pistons used...toyota doesnt just slap a piston in a hole with .002 clearance extra... nono they take a slightly larger piston and use it to take up the slack... So its not super unusual for toyota and its definetly not unusual when an engine is 'rebuilt'

The cylinder bores look real good, with most of the cross hatching left. On the "east/west" side of the cylinders, the cylinder walls have a little bit more wear, so that area of the cylinder walls is shiney.

My buddy came over yesterday with his measuring devices, but I'm not 100% sure he was spot on with his diagnosis. He said we could get away with honing it. Looking at the cylinders with my untrained eyes, they do look real good for an engine with 175,000 miles on it, however, then purchasing the correct size rings, bearings, etc., is almost mind boggling to me.

I am very fussy with my "toys". This 89 4runner I brought back from Texas almost two years ago will never see a Michigan winter, never see a mudhole, etc. I bought it simply to tool around in, to pull my 14' fishing boat, etc.

My biggest concern so far is getting the bottom end solid on the truck. I don't have the confidence in myself to make sure all the measurements are correct, and after seeing my buddy kinda fumble around with the cylinder measurements, I lost a little confidence with him as well.

I am really close to loading the block up and taking it to the machine shop. I just don't want to get the engine all put back together, bolted back in the truck, start it, and then listen to a low end knocking noise.

vmax84

You should contact Ted (EB) for his expert opinion, his e-mail is in the link below:
http://www.engnbldr.com/

I have purchased quite a bit of stuff from Ted already (complete top end for engine), but seems like a guy almost needs to "get his hands" on this engine in order to see exactly what it needs.

Great guy, Ted.

vmax84

Using different sized pistons.. lovely.
Misbalanced for sure.

I guess that's part of the "x" in the equation for me.........irregular size pistons, or pistons "not quite" the same size.

To me, although it's quite a bit more money, it just makes sense to take it to our good machine shop here in top, have them bore it so all the cylinders are the same size, and go with it from there.

vmax84

thats the toyota way.makes for better fitment.just got my 3vz back in the truck.it has 3 "different main bearings & 2 different rod brngs.some say standard size will wrk but this engine had 300,000 miles on it & the original brngs didn't even have any copper showing.it was a no brainer for me to put factory stuff back in it.didn't rpl pistons either.machine shop said cyls were only .001-.002 over so i put the same pistons back in the same holes they were.looking forward to seeing how it does

Yup thats the toyota way.... And vmax i would suggest just getting it done professionally because the measurements are really tough to do when you are dealing with thousandths of an inch and the fact that if your off by a few thow its gonna make a big difference...let the professionals decide to either rebore or hone your cylinders.

As much as I love tearing stuff down and rebuilding it, I end up opting to have a shop build the bottom end. My father, who has been doing this stuff for nearly 50 years, is the same way. If ths same shop can machine it and put it together, then you end up with a consistent build. Not to mention someone to fall back on and blame if something is wrong :P If I am simply replacing a crank or something like that, then I would tackle it. But if an entire rebuild is taking place on my daily driver and machining is involved, I would just as soon get the short block back assembled and do the rest myself.

Bingo. Just got back from the pole barn where the 4runner is hiding, and I've completed pulling the last couple things off the block, marked all the bearing caps, labled stuff, etc., in preparation for taking it to the machine shop tomorrow. They might as well do the bottom end anyway since they are taking care of my crankshaft.

Thanks a lot for all the good advice.

vmax84

Vmax, good to see you doing it right.. What you're doing is the difference between a rebuild that will last 20k and one that will last 250k.

Find a *good* machinist also.. One hint for a good one is one that doesn't want to do final hone on the block until the pistons are in-hand... The pistons can vary in casting size and each one should be sized to it's particular hole.

Engnbldr also has some decent writeups on quench and other suggestions that your machinist may not check out on these motors.

Consider having it balanced - it's not critical, but if you're going to keep it forever it really calms down noise/vibration on idle.

I"m telling ya', for a little 4 cylinder engine, it sure is a lot of work!! You veterans may disagree with this, but I'm glad I don't have the 6 cylinder!!

Fortunately, we have a good machine shop here in town. They do really good work.

Balanced? Any idea how much this costs? Thanks.

vmax84

But yeah, I want this engine to last a long time and I really don't want to tear it out again!!

Balancing (in Austin) runs anywhere from about $150-$300. As I stated, it's optional.. That motor will be a lot better if all the slugs are the same size!

Just got back from dropping the block off at the machine shop. He will be getting a price to me on all the stuff I want done to it.

Thanks again.

vmax84

The quote I got from a reputable machine shop here in Denver (they do lots of Toyotas) was about $1000. This was a complete rebuild of a 22R-E short block. Machine work was hot tank, check deck for flatness, bore cylinders, crank, rods, balance. New pistons, rings, bearings (not Toyota), freeze plugs. They would do the assembly, which I think is important so that they could adjust for tolerances if needed. I did not ask for the price on a line bore of the mains, which is a good thing to do. The labor vs. parts was bout 50/50.

Whoooo............good work ain't cheap, is it?!!! But if it's done right, it's worth every penny.

vmax84