Electric Fan Woes... again
06-19-2006, 06:13 PM
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Electric Fan Woes... again
Just kinda venting here.... but is there an electric fan that will work on the 3VZE?? I tried the POS flex-a-lite 165 which was a waste of money. Truck would overheat on mild inclines with AC on. Put factory fan back on and all was good. Jump forward a year to now. Decided i wanted to try the Taurus fan mod. Worked fine until AC was on and going up another long mild incline. This was on the high-speed setting too. Am I stuck with the parasitic drag of the stock fan? I'm begining to think so. I can tell a small but noticeable improvement without the drag using an electric fan.
Can anyone comment on doing that intake silencer removal mod as far as noticable improvement in throttle response? I thinking maybe i'd be better off trying this and going back to the stock mechanical fan.
Ideas anyone??
Thanks,
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
Can anyone comment on doing that intake silencer removal mod as far as noticable improvement in throttle response? I thinking maybe i'd be better off trying this and going back to the stock mechanical fan.
Ideas anyone??
Thanks,
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
06-19-2006, 06:24 PM
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It's a bummer, aint it? I have the same result with the 165. I have to put the mechanical fan back on for the summer months. The power gain from an e-fan on the 3.0 is nice. So, I run the 165 for most of the year. I do not know of an e-fan that actually works with this engine.
As for the ISR mod, it gave me a noticable gain in throttle response. It seems to have given me a little more power at high rpm as well. Not to mention a nice new sound. I certainly recommend the ISR mod. Might as well drill out your air box while you're at it.
As for the ISR mod, it gave me a noticable gain in throttle response. It seems to have given me a little more power at high rpm as well. Not to mention a nice new sound. I certainly recommend the ISR mod. Might as well drill out your air box while you're at it.
Last edited by ChickenLover; 06-19-2006 at 06:27 PM.
06-19-2006, 07:18 PM
#3
IF you heating up that much that an electric fan cant keep up, You may have other issues, Even slow trail driving my machanical fan rarely turned on if not at all.
The only time it does is when I just start the engine and a couple of days from a stop light and I had a bad fuelpressure regulator and was causing me to run really lean.
The only time it does is when I just start the engine and a couple of days from a stop light and I had a bad fuelpressure regulator and was causing me to run really lean.
06-19-2006, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ^VooDoo^
The only time it does is when I just start the engine and a couple of days from a stop light and I had a bad fuelpressure regulator and was causing me to run really lean.
06-19-2006, 09:33 PM
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The mechanical fan is not actually always on, yes it is mounted to the engine so it is "on" the engine LOL, however the fluid clutch disconnects the fan a few minutes after start-up and only re-engages once the engine has reached a set temperature, once the engine has cooled it disengages again. This cycle continues repeatedly as you drive.
As to the problem with the electric fan not drawing cooling air you might want to check the polarity of your connection as a DC motor will run in reverse if not properly connected which would reduce the efficacy of the fan. You might also want to check the setting of the thermostat if it is set too high the fan is turning on too late to do any good. You might also check the chemistry of your coolant if it is old it will be getting worn out and less effective, when you replace it consider increasing the coolant to water mix from 50-50 to 60-40 or even higher but check with a mechanic or consult with a automotive radiator technician first.
Hope this helped Aviator
As to the problem with the electric fan not drawing cooling air you might want to check the polarity of your connection as a DC motor will run in reverse if not properly connected which would reduce the efficacy of the fan. You might also want to check the setting of the thermostat if it is set too high the fan is turning on too late to do any good. You might also check the chemistry of your coolant if it is old it will be getting worn out and less effective, when you replace it consider increasing the coolant to water mix from 50-50 to 60-40 or even higher but check with a mechanic or consult with a automotive radiator technician first.
Hope this helped Aviator
Last edited by aviator; 06-19-2006 at 09:34 PM.
06-19-2006, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by aviator
The mechanical fan is not actually always on,
There are many people on this board who have had overheating problems associated with the 165. Myself included, and I can assure you that the rest of my cooling system is in tip-top shape. And no, the fan isn't spinning backwards.
06-20-2006, 04:34 AM
#7
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2 thoughts:
-Make SURE your fan is set up right. Double and triple check.
-The issue might be with your cooling system. I'll tell you why...
I had an el-cheapo electric fan on my 3VZE here in MS, where summers get hotter than 100* easy. I never had any problems with overheating, even sitting in traffic with AC on. So, if I can do it, you should be able to also, especially in Missouri.
If you're sure the fan is blowing right, check your cooling system. There may have been a problem that the mechanical fan was just covering up (since it can pull more air through). Going back to mechanical would just most likely delay the problem until it becomes a lot worse and potentially harder/more expensive to fix.
-Make SURE your fan is set up right. Double and triple check.
-The issue might be with your cooling system. I'll tell you why...
I had an el-cheapo electric fan on my 3VZE here in MS, where summers get hotter than 100* easy. I never had any problems with overheating, even sitting in traffic with AC on. So, if I can do it, you should be able to also, especially in Missouri.
If you're sure the fan is blowing right, check your cooling system. There may have been a problem that the mechanical fan was just covering up (since it can pull more air through). Going back to mechanical would just most likely delay the problem until it becomes a lot worse and potentially harder/more expensive to fix.
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06-20-2006, 04:58 AM
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Thanks for the responses. The fan is pulling air, not pushing so its wired correctly and turning on at the correct time/temperature. Also, yes i can sit with ac on in traffic and it wont overheat. Its only when the engine is taxed with the load on a long uphill incline with ac on that it starts to overheat. Now when i say overheat, i dont mean that the needle is pegged in the red. What i mean is that homeostasis of the cooling system is compromised and the needle creeps past halfway mark and very slowly rises if the load is kept constant. The e-fan just doesnt move enough air. With the stock fan i've towed a 4,000lbs boat, 5 people and gear up that same incline with ac cranked and the needle never moves past its normal spot (needles width to left of center). Guess its back to the roaring stock fan...
Oh and as far as i can tell the cooling system is tip top. New radiator last year, factory t-stat. I dont see any issues there.
ChickenLover- Would you say the ISR mod made a more or same amount improvement as when you put the electric 165 fan on?
Thanks,
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
Oh and as far as i can tell the cooling system is tip top. New radiator last year, factory t-stat. I dont see any issues there.
ChickenLover- Would you say the ISR mod made a more or same amount improvement as when you put the electric 165 fan on?
Thanks,
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
Last edited by toyo22r; 06-20-2006 at 05:00 AM.
06-20-2006, 07:58 AM
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homeostasis!.. I love those $10.00 words toyo haha As I suggested you could try adjusting the blend of the coolant to raise its boiling point. I think I saw a small fan gizmo that was designed to sit on the front of the radiator it was a 'booster' fan designed to push more air across an AT radiator posibly you could add one of these to the front of your rad and wire it to a switch so you only turn it on when the system is under extreme loads, that way you would avoid overcooling issues.
On the other hand how often are you pulling a 4000lb boat and 5 ppl up that long incline? If its not a constant thing you could just live with it as long as it is not hitting the red zone I don't think it is too big a deal you'll just have to change the coolant more often is all.
One other point I just thought of ... what kind of coolant are you using? I've heard some bad things about that super long life stuff in our engines.
Hope this helped Aviator
On the other hand how often are you pulling a 4000lb boat and 5 ppl up that long incline? If its not a constant thing you could just live with it as long as it is not hitting the red zone I don't think it is too big a deal you'll just have to change the coolant more often is all.
One other point I just thought of ... what kind of coolant are you using? I've heard some bad things about that super long life stuff in our engines.
Hope this helped Aviator
06-20-2006, 09:20 AM
#10
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I have the taurus fan mod, and it has given me no problems since I upgraded my electrical system... I had to get a 100 amp alternator and an Optima battery to make sure I could keep up with the fan and other electrical components I have.
There are a couple of things I have done that are different from the "standard" Taurus fan mod:
1) I completely removed my old fan shroud and instead custom-mounted the Taurus fan and shroud on to the radiator with some custom aluminum brackets. The entire shroud is also sealed against the radiator with foam tape. This assures that I am getting maximum flow from the fan through the radiator. The "standard" Taurus fan mod calls for you to trim the electric fan shroud and physically mount it inside your original shroud, I didn't like this idea, too messy...
2) I have a fully-variable fan controller, rather than the on/off variety. This assures the fan is always running, and just speeds up or slows down based on engine temp. I also have a back-up electrical set up with a two position toggle switch on my dash and two relays so that if my controller goes out, I can hook the fan up to relays instead and control them with the switch. I found that the high speed setting on the Taurus fan requires at least a 40 amp relay, as it melts anything less.
I have been running the fan for a little less than a year, in Arizona, New Mexico, and California. Arizona is obviously over 100 degrees, and I have had NO problems with overheating. I also have taken my 4Runner to the Glamis Sand Dunes, and the fan kept up with cooling the engine no problem (even though I was frequently pulling 4500-5000 rpms going over some huge dunes.) The only incident I had was when the fan's high-speed setting melted a 30-amp relay and my car began to overheat (because the fan was off, duh), I replaced the relay with a 40-amp one and haven't had a problem since.
I get the feeling that people that have overheating problems with the Flex-a-lite fan can alleviate this problem with a properly implemented Taurus fan, as long as it's shroud has a good seal on the readiator (and a good radiator, not clogged), and you have the electrical system to keep up with it.
I definitely recommend the mod to anyone looking for a more advanced cooling system for their Yota, I personally will use a similar set-up again when I get a newer 4Runner and supercharge it (however, I will use a Lincoln Mark VIII fan instead, more CFM capacity that way for the hot supercharged engine).
My .02
There are a couple of things I have done that are different from the "standard" Taurus fan mod:
1) I completely removed my old fan shroud and instead custom-mounted the Taurus fan and shroud on to the radiator with some custom aluminum brackets. The entire shroud is also sealed against the radiator with foam tape. This assures that I am getting maximum flow from the fan through the radiator. The "standard" Taurus fan mod calls for you to trim the electric fan shroud and physically mount it inside your original shroud, I didn't like this idea, too messy...
2) I have a fully-variable fan controller, rather than the on/off variety. This assures the fan is always running, and just speeds up or slows down based on engine temp. I also have a back-up electrical set up with a two position toggle switch on my dash and two relays so that if my controller goes out, I can hook the fan up to relays instead and control them with the switch. I found that the high speed setting on the Taurus fan requires at least a 40 amp relay, as it melts anything less.
I have been running the fan for a little less than a year, in Arizona, New Mexico, and California. Arizona is obviously over 100 degrees, and I have had NO problems with overheating. I also have taken my 4Runner to the Glamis Sand Dunes, and the fan kept up with cooling the engine no problem (even though I was frequently pulling 4500-5000 rpms going over some huge dunes.) The only incident I had was when the fan's high-speed setting melted a 30-amp relay and my car began to overheat (because the fan was off, duh), I replaced the relay with a 40-amp one and haven't had a problem since.
I get the feeling that people that have overheating problems with the Flex-a-lite fan can alleviate this problem with a properly implemented Taurus fan, as long as it's shroud has a good seal on the readiator (and a good radiator, not clogged), and you have the electrical system to keep up with it.
I definitely recommend the mod to anyone looking for a more advanced cooling system for their Yota, I personally will use a similar set-up again when I get a newer 4Runner and supercharge it (however, I will use a Lincoln Mark VIII fan instead, more CFM capacity that way for the hot supercharged engine).
My .02
06-20-2006, 10:14 AM
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You like that $10 word? Being an engineer i have plenty..lol.
mastacox- I mounted the fan like yours with custom brackets directly against the radiator. I did have weatherstripping between the fan shroud and the radiator but then ran into clearence issuses with the back of the motor and the pulley. The fan sits flush with no gaps. I do have an optima battery and everything wired with 10ga thru 40 breaker. It comletely befuddles ($5 word) me that your in 100*+ arizona summer and yours doesnt overheat. Were you running AC? Also is your rig automatic? Both throw tremendous heat to the radiator.
Oh and i went thru the complete gamet of coolent blend, water-wetter, etc. last summer with the FAL fan. Nothing made much difference. Even with the taurus fan on its high setting, it doesnt move as much air as with the stock fan. Maybe its just the combination of the ambient temps, heat generated by the AC condenser, radiator, and extra heat from the trans-cooler plus my 4Runner tips the scales at 5300lbs. It may just be a tolerence stack from all these variables.
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
mastacox- I mounted the fan like yours with custom brackets directly against the radiator. I did have weatherstripping between the fan shroud and the radiator but then ran into clearence issuses with the back of the motor and the pulley. The fan sits flush with no gaps. I do have an optima battery and everything wired with 10ga thru 40 breaker. It comletely befuddles ($5 word) me that your in 100*+ arizona summer and yours doesnt overheat. Were you running AC? Also is your rig automatic? Both throw tremendous heat to the radiator.
Oh and i went thru the complete gamet of coolent blend, water-wetter, etc. last summer with the FAL fan. Nothing made much difference. Even with the taurus fan on its high setting, it doesnt move as much air as with the stock fan. Maybe its just the combination of the ambient temps, heat generated by the AC condenser, radiator, and extra heat from the trans-cooler plus my 4Runner tips the scales at 5300lbs. It may just be a tolerence stack from all these variables.
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
06-20-2006, 11:37 AM
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Hey toyo do you know all the words to the Lady Godiva song? Maybe try the trans cooler fan mod. I think I saw one one the front of one of the v8 powered yotas.
I know this sounds dumb [but you are an engineer, LOL] could you have an airbubble in the coolant system? That would reduce the water flow through the system...
gamet = $5.00
or you could try masacox's idea and get a MarkVII fan from the bone yard that would increase the CFMs.
Aviator
I know this sounds dumb [but you are an engineer, LOL] could you have an airbubble in the coolant system? That would reduce the water flow through the system...
gamet = $5.00
or you could try masacox's idea and get a MarkVII fan from the bone yard that would increase the CFMs.
Aviator
06-20-2006, 04:22 PM
#13
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Well, I have a manual transmission, and I run my AC all the time during the summer, usually full blast, no problems... When I got the fan I also procured a "new" radiator from the junkyard because mine was leaking, so there's that. You might consider flushing your radiator to see if you're clogged... Also consider replacing your thermostat with a nice new one, maybe even with a slightly lower opening temp.
Here are some pictures of my fan installation when I did it, you can see there is a pretty good amount of space between the pulleys and the fan motor... The second picture also shows the aluminum brackets I bent. I used a Dremel to cut off any extraneous things sticking off, don't remember if I cut anything to get the fan closer to the radiator though, don't think so.
The pics are pretty big, 7.1Mp camera and all... dial-up beware.
Picture 1
Picture 2
Let me think of other possibilities for your overheating probs...
Is it a 1 or 2-speed Taurus fan? Are you using the high or low speed wires? Do you know for sure? Would you say your fan pushes A LOT of air on high, or just so-so? My fan on hi is loud (wind noise) and pushes a lot of air.
Are the spaces between your radiator fins clogged with stuff?
Is your AC pusher fan working?
That's about all I can think of for now...
Here are some pictures of my fan installation when I did it, you can see there is a pretty good amount of space between the pulleys and the fan motor... The second picture also shows the aluminum brackets I bent. I used a Dremel to cut off any extraneous things sticking off, don't remember if I cut anything to get the fan closer to the radiator though, don't think so.
The pics are pretty big, 7.1Mp camera and all... dial-up beware.
Picture 1
Picture 2
Let me think of other possibilities for your overheating probs...
Is it a 1 or 2-speed Taurus fan? Are you using the high or low speed wires? Do you know for sure? Would you say your fan pushes A LOT of air on high, or just so-so? My fan on hi is loud (wind noise) and pushes a lot of air.
Are the spaces between your radiator fins clogged with stuff?
Is your AC pusher fan working?
That's about all I can think of for now...
06-20-2006, 07:53 PM
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I have a Taurus fan on my 90 v6 5spd & have no problems with the ac on running 80 miles an hr. I don't even have the high speed hooked up & we have had a cpl 90+ degree days & i've had no problems.
You do have the fan from the 3.8 not the 3.0 dual speed fan right
mastacox he said that he had the Taurus fan on high so it has to be a dual speed fan.
You do have the fan from the 3.8 not the 3.0 dual speed fan right
mastacox he said that he had the Taurus fan on high so it has to be a dual speed fan.
06-20-2006, 08:00 PM
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I'm 100% sure there is nothing else wrong with cooling system. Yes, the AC pusher fan works just fine.
One interesting thing... my fan does not look like yours mastacox. Your fan shroud sits much closer to the radiator (lower profile). Mine came from a 3.8L Taurus, but i am not exactly sure of the year (may have been an 89?). Its the two speed flavor. On high i would rate the air flow about 6-7 with the stock fan being a 10. As mentioned before, the radiator is new (yr old), also new toyota t-stat and yes fins are clean.
Although i think it unlikely, is it possible i have an early verison of this fan and the air flow is not as great as the later model ones? But then again in one of the write ups about this mod, the author made mention of the clearence issues with the fan motor hitting the water pump studs. Your fan appears to have an abundance of clearence.
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
One interesting thing... my fan does not look like yours mastacox. Your fan shroud sits much closer to the radiator (lower profile). Mine came from a 3.8L Taurus, but i am not exactly sure of the year (may have been an 89?). Its the two speed flavor. On high i would rate the air flow about 6-7 with the stock fan being a 10. As mentioned before, the radiator is new (yr old), also new toyota t-stat and yes fins are clean.
Although i think it unlikely, is it possible i have an early verison of this fan and the air flow is not as great as the later model ones? But then again in one of the write ups about this mod, the author made mention of the clearence issues with the fan motor hitting the water pump studs. Your fan appears to have an abundance of clearence.
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
06-21-2006, 06:57 AM
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Well I was thinking that could be the issue but I dont know. I might try to go back to the bone yard and find a later model fan. Its just such a hassle to pull the radiator AGAIN swap fans and buy more coolant.. but if it works its well worth the effort... However, it seems like everyone one who has responded saying they have no problems with the Taurus mod is running a 5spd. The additional heat from the auto-tranny may just through it over the edge. Anybody with an auto-tranny running the taurus fan and ac having any overheat issues? I know chickenlover has an auto and he has the same issues.
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
toyo22r@hotmail.com
95 4Runner
06-21-2006, 07:08 AM
#19
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Well, I would say go for the gold and see if you can find a Lincoln Mark VIII fan for cheap, they blow a lot more CFM, but pull more current (up to 45 amps I think) so make sure to upgrade your relay.
EDIT: looks like the Taurus fan pulls 3000-3400 cfm while the Mark VIII fan pulls 4000-4500 cfm. A big jump.
The taurus fan does 35 amps on high, the Lincoln fan is around 40-45 amps I think.
From what I have read, the Taurus Fan is capable of cooling a regular Mustang GT, and the Mark VIII fan will cool a supercharged/intercooled one...
EDIT: looks like the Taurus fan pulls 3000-3400 cfm while the Mark VIII fan pulls 4000-4500 cfm. A big jump.
The taurus fan does 35 amps on high, the Lincoln fan is around 40-45 amps I think.
From what I have read, the Taurus Fan is capable of cooling a regular Mustang GT, and the Mark VIII fan will cool a supercharged/intercooled one...
Last edited by mastacox; 06-21-2006 at 07:23 AM.
06-21-2006, 07:09 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by toyo22r
The additional heat from the auto-tranny may just through it over the edge.
