Anybody ever put on a Cummins 4BT in a 2nd gen?
07-12-2006, 02:35 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Bumpin' Yota
lol yeah I think the smallest cat is what 6 liters or something? lol
Yeah, I think the 3416(??) is the closest..its an inline 4, 500 cubes...makes about 350 hp. Now thats the old style numbers, I am sure one of the new C# engines is similar. I actually saw one in a truck once.. it was a busted old mid 80's ford crew cab short bed dually (not factory option)...it had a single 5" exhaust and was pulling a massive trailer of logs up a pass in montana at least 50...it was impressive!!
07-12-2006, 03:18 PM
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Uhm, what about putting in a diesel out of an older mercedies benz? I know some sazuki samurai guy that have taken out there 1.3 liter motors and put in 4 cylinder diesels.
07-12-2006, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by doc76239
Uhm, what about putting in a diesel out of an older mercedies benz? I know some sazuki samurai guy that have taken out there 1.3 liter motors and put in 4 cylinder diesels.
Good engines, I doubt the "power curve" is where you want it...and how do you get a tranny that will take an xcase to bolt up? Are mercedes FWD or RWD?
07-12-2006, 09:35 PM
#24
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Mecedes do have 4wd versions of their small trucks they just don't get over here usually. the dodge spriter vans are just rebadged mercedes. The power band from the car diesels that made it over here might be in the wrong spot I agree.
What would be wrong with hooking up the 4bt to the existing aisin manny tranny driveline? too much torque? not enough clutch? it sounds like some of you guys are using slush boxes is that the problem?
More info please.
Aviator
What would be wrong with hooking up the 4bt to the existing aisin manny tranny driveline? too much torque? not enough clutch? it sounds like some of you guys are using slush boxes is that the problem?
More info please.
Aviator
07-12-2006, 09:53 PM
#25
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In stock form (engine) there should be no problem at all. Once you start turning up the boost on the 4bt you start running into trouble. Ive never seen the power band for that engine after its been modified, but usually diesels have roughly a 2 to 1 ratio for torque to hp, so 300hp on the 4bt should equate to approximately 600lb of torque, but correct me if Im wrong.
With that much power, the whole driveline will fail, and fail fast. The clutch wont hold the the torque, the diffs would grenade, and after all of those were upgraded, youll start snapping axles. Only real option is to SAS with some really beefy equipment, and use a transmission that is designed to take that level of power.
I was thinking that if you wanted to stay manual, the getrag transmission off of the mkiv supra would probably be a good choice, if you can get a transfer case on it? I know that tranny can hold upwards of 900hp...for a little while at least.
This is all in theory of course, Ive never tried any of it, but I do like the idea of a diesel, and when the time comes, I may look into this instead of the 1uz-fe.
With that much power, the whole driveline will fail, and fail fast. The clutch wont hold the the torque, the diffs would grenade, and after all of those were upgraded, youll start snapping axles. Only real option is to SAS with some really beefy equipment, and use a transmission that is designed to take that level of power.
I was thinking that if you wanted to stay manual, the getrag transmission off of the mkiv supra would probably be a good choice, if you can get a transfer case on it? I know that tranny can hold upwards of 900hp...for a little while at least.
This is all in theory of course, Ive never tried any of it, but I do like the idea of a diesel, and when the time comes, I may look into this instead of the 1uz-fe.
07-13-2006, 06:05 AM
#26
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I doubt the power numbers on the 3.9 are that high, the 5.9 is only recently at 325hp and 610 ftlbs....
The sprinter vans are mercedes, but I not sure how the trannies work. They could be like the Izuzu which use a low hp motor and 10 speeds to get the job done... while this still works and would probally be easier on drivetrain, its not what I want.
The sprinter vans are mercedes, but I not sure how the trannies work. They could be like the Izuzu which use a low hp motor and 10 speeds to get the job done... while this still works and would probally be easier on drivetrain, its not what I want.
07-13-2006, 06:18 AM
#27
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the 4BT pending application started out at 105hp and about 300ftlbs torque...off idle! This is why they were employed in the box trucks.
In the marine world apparently 250hp was the standard for this engine so figure 500tq or so. This is all based one what ive read not first hand knowledge, so take it with a grain of salt.
In the marine world apparently 250hp was the standard for this engine so figure 500tq or so. This is all based one what ive read not first hand knowledge, so take it with a grain of salt.
07-13-2006, 07:15 AM
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The cummins site was down for a while, but I did find some 3.9 info... new, of course... the agriculture app is about 125hp and 373 ft lbs (cant find the goverend RPM)...that would even be enough for SERIOUS crawling, and blow the 22RE or 3.slow out of the water... If you were to spend some time in excel with tire/gear/tranny combos I bet you could find gearing that would allow you to cruise in OD at 75 up the steepest of hills...and you would be running a 3.07 rear end :-)...then on to the marine apps 250hp, with a 3000 rpm redline...this would really knock your socks off...and agian playing in excel to find the propper ratio if you were to cruise at 75 at 2200 RPM it would be about 15mpg at the lowest (based on g/hr for boats where the max power is always made at any given RPM) Peak trq is at 200 RPM's and is about 490... meaning you do need 1 ton running gear...where with the lower hp agri app you could probally run 3/4ton... the difference being, well nothing :-)
In order to have crawling and clerance you have with toyo gear and dual cases with 35's, you would need something like 40's on a 14 bolt, or you could go $$ and get dynatrack sixties...
The hwy performance would be unparalled...but it would take lots of work to make it work on the trail... espically when you consider that our frames were not designed to handle this amount of torque, and with 40's the frame would feel the torque. The engine dry is about 1000 lbs, so whats that 600 heavier than a 22RE, you would probally have another 200+ lbs of extra weight from the tranny/xcase combo... plan on either boxing the hell out of your frame or making a new 2x3 frame.....
Essestially to do this right would be silly.... And if your going that far you might as well have narrowed 60's made so you keep your mini truck feel.... I think we could probally spend 20-30K on this project to make it work as it should, and be as fail safe as a stock toy on 35's...
If I were to do this, I would use the agri motor, dodge 6spd manual, Atlas II Xcase, Narrowed Dynatrac 60's (or mogs if they can handle the torque (and the axlewrap would be silly...probally have to go 4 link).. custom 2x3 frame, with full exo and a flat bed on a ex-cab body with a runner wheel base, and 37" krawlers... 4.88 rear end would allow for 2500 RPM at 75 mph (the max crawlers are rated for), and with a 6.0:1 atlass II thats .5mph at 750 rpm 1st gear 4lo...or 7 tire rotations a minute... so pretty darn crawlable.... If you drop to 4.10s you get 300 rpm less at 75mph, and up to 9 rotations a minute...still pretty damn slow...so it depends of if you will street drive or trail only... I think I would do the 4.10 gears....then ARB front and rear....
See money out the wazzuu
But it sure is fun to play around isnt it :big2:
In order to have crawling and clerance you have with toyo gear and dual cases with 35's, you would need something like 40's on a 14 bolt, or you could go $$ and get dynatrack sixties...
The hwy performance would be unparalled...but it would take lots of work to make it work on the trail... espically when you consider that our frames were not designed to handle this amount of torque, and with 40's the frame would feel the torque. The engine dry is about 1000 lbs, so whats that 600 heavier than a 22RE, you would probally have another 200+ lbs of extra weight from the tranny/xcase combo... plan on either boxing the hell out of your frame or making a new 2x3 frame.....
Essestially to do this right would be silly.... And if your going that far you might as well have narrowed 60's made so you keep your mini truck feel.... I think we could probally spend 20-30K on this project to make it work as it should, and be as fail safe as a stock toy on 35's...
If I were to do this, I would use the agri motor, dodge 6spd manual, Atlas II Xcase, Narrowed Dynatrac 60's (or mogs if they can handle the torque (and the axlewrap would be silly...probally have to go 4 link).. custom 2x3 frame, with full exo and a flat bed on a ex-cab body with a runner wheel base, and 37" krawlers... 4.88 rear end would allow for 2500 RPM at 75 mph (the max crawlers are rated for), and with a 6.0:1 atlass II thats .5mph at 750 rpm 1st gear 4lo...or 7 tire rotations a minute... so pretty darn crawlable.... If you drop to 4.10s you get 300 rpm less at 75mph, and up to 9 rotations a minute...still pretty damn slow...so it depends of if you will street drive or trail only... I think I would do the 4.10 gears....then ARB front and rear....
See money out the wazzuu
But it sure is fun to play around isnt it :big2:
07-26-2006, 11:41 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by Bumpin' Yota
the biggest issue however that I can find out would be the engine height.
Would make great swap material.
07-27-2006, 07:41 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by AH64ID
The cummins site was down for a while, but I did find some 3.9 info... new, of course... the agriculture app is about 125hp and 373 ft lbs (cant find the goverend RPM)...that would even be enough for SERIOUS crawling, and blow the 22RE or 3.slow out of the water... If you were to spend some time in excel with tire/gear/tranny combos I bet you could find gearing that would allow you to cruise in OD at 75 up the steepest of hills...and you would be running a 3.07 rear end :-)...then on to the marine apps 250hp, with a 3000 rpm redline...this would really knock your socks off...and agian playing in excel to find the propper ratio if you were to cruise at 75 at 2200 RPM it would be about 15mpg at the lowest (based on g/hr for boats where the max power is always made at any given RPM) Peak trq is at 200 RPM's and is about 490... meaning you do need 1 ton running gear...where with the lower hp agri app you could probally run 3/4ton... the difference being, well nothing :-)
In order to have crawling and clerance you have with toyo gear and dual cases with 35's, you would need something like 40's on a 14 bolt, or you could go $$ and get dynatrack sixties...
The hwy performance would be unparalled...but it would take lots of work to make it work on the trail... espically when you consider that our frames were not designed to handle this amount of torque, and with 40's the frame would feel the torque. The engine dry is about 1000 lbs, so whats that 600 heavier than a 22RE, you would probally have another 200+ lbs of extra weight from the tranny/xcase combo... plan on either boxing the hell out of your frame or making a new 2x3 frame.....
Essestially to do this right would be silly.... And if your going that far you might as well have narrowed 60's made so you keep your mini truck feel.... I think we could probally spend 20-30K on this project to make it work as it should, and be as fail safe as a stock toy on 35's...
If I were to do this, I would use the agri motor, dodge 6spd manual, Atlas II Xcase, Narrowed Dynatrac 60's (or mogs if they can handle the torque (and the axlewrap would be silly...probally have to go 4 link).. custom 2x3 frame, with full exo and a flat bed on a ex-cab body with a runner wheel base, and 37" krawlers... 4.88 rear end would allow for 2500 RPM at 75 mph (the max crawlers are rated for), and with a 6.0:1 atlass II thats .5mph at 750 rpm 1st gear 4lo...or 7 tire rotations a minute... so pretty darn crawlable.... If you drop to 4.10s you get 300 rpm less at 75mph, and up to 9 rotations a minute...still pretty damn slow...so it depends of if you will street drive or trail only... I think I would do the 4.10 gears....then ARB front and rear....
See money out the wazzuu
But it sure is fun to play around isnt it :big2:
In order to have crawling and clerance you have with toyo gear and dual cases with 35's, you would need something like 40's on a 14 bolt, or you could go $$ and get dynatrack sixties...
The hwy performance would be unparalled...but it would take lots of work to make it work on the trail... espically when you consider that our frames were not designed to handle this amount of torque, and with 40's the frame would feel the torque. The engine dry is about 1000 lbs, so whats that 600 heavier than a 22RE, you would probally have another 200+ lbs of extra weight from the tranny/xcase combo... plan on either boxing the hell out of your frame or making a new 2x3 frame.....
Essestially to do this right would be silly.... And if your going that far you might as well have narrowed 60's made so you keep your mini truck feel.... I think we could probally spend 20-30K on this project to make it work as it should, and be as fail safe as a stock toy on 35's...
If I were to do this, I would use the agri motor, dodge 6spd manual, Atlas II Xcase, Narrowed Dynatrac 60's (or mogs if they can handle the torque (and the axlewrap would be silly...probally have to go 4 link).. custom 2x3 frame, with full exo and a flat bed on a ex-cab body with a runner wheel base, and 37" krawlers... 4.88 rear end would allow for 2500 RPM at 75 mph (the max crawlers are rated for), and with a 6.0:1 atlass II thats .5mph at 750 rpm 1st gear 4lo...or 7 tire rotations a minute... so pretty darn crawlable.... If you drop to 4.10s you get 300 rpm less at 75mph, and up to 9 rotations a minute...still pretty damn slow...so it depends of if you will street drive or trail only... I think I would do the 4.10 gears....then ARB front and rear....
See money out the wazzuu
But it sure is fun to play around isnt it :big2:
How does the 2nd gen frame compare to the 80 series lc frame? 'Cause I know there is a guy running an 80 with a 6bt with little trouble.
07-27-2006, 09:42 AM
#31
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Anyone ever looked into other brands of diesel? GM has a contract with Isuzu for diesel engines, which seem to have great reliability in service vehicles. Isuzu also makes many sizes of engines, I think sizes similar to the 22re. Another company to look at is Perkins. They are now a subsidary of CAT and are a British based company. They make very reliable engines that have applications from pumps to trucks. A bunch of sizes too. I think a diesel would be ideal in my truck, but I have not heard of many people doing it before (especially not with a small diesel) and I am not the pioneering type.
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07-28-2006, 01:56 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Bumpin' Yota
if only i could fit an LBZ 6.6 durabuxx in...
WHAT!!!!
YOU COULDN'T PAY ME TO DO THAT SWAP!!
I am not an overly big fan of diesel engines with aluminum heads.....
I would imagine that the 2nd gen frame is not quite as strong as a LC 80 frame, but you can allways make it stronger...
07-28-2006, 06:50 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by AH64ID
WHAT!!!!
YOU COULDN'T PAY ME TO DO THAT SWAP!!
I am not an overly big fan of diesel engines with aluminum heads.....
I would imagine that the 2nd gen frame is not quite as strong as a LC 80 frame, but you can allways make it stronger...
YOU COULDN'T PAY ME TO DO THAT SWAP!!
I am not an overly big fan of diesel engines with aluminum heads.....
I would imagine that the 2nd gen frame is not quite as strong as a LC 80 frame, but you can allways make it stronger...
The Powerstroke 6.ohno (we own one) is supposedly worse than the 3.0 with HG issues...but we've been very happy with ours.
Last edited by Bumpin' Yota; 07-28-2006 at 06:51 AM.
07-26-2020, 05:10 AM
#35
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4bt 2nd gen
[QUOTE=Bumpin' Yota;940687]Cummins 4BT?
Apparently guys over on Diesel Place are swapping out their 6.5L turbo diesel v8s for these little 3.9L I4's and have MUCH better results across the board. 2x more power with very little modification and at least that much improved gas mileage.
So whose done it? Or even thought about it?
I just picked up a 4bt with the intention of swapping it into my 91 4Runner. So far looking like an easy swap where I can keep my fuel gauge, oil pressure gage, spedo, temp gauge, and volt meter. There’s a company that makes a bell housing plate for the trans and it doesn’t look too hard to make motor mounts for it. I’ll let you know when I have more info on it but I’m still building the motor. Just got it from the block shop.
Apparently guys over on Diesel Place are swapping out their 6.5L turbo diesel v8s for these little 3.9L I4's and have MUCH better results across the board. 2x more power with very little modification and at least that much improved gas mileage.
So whose done it? Or even thought about it?
I just picked up a 4bt with the intention of swapping it into my 91 4Runner. So far looking like an easy swap where I can keep my fuel gauge, oil pressure gage, spedo, temp gauge, and volt meter. There’s a company that makes a bell housing plate for the trans and it doesn’t look too hard to make motor mounts for it. I’ll let you know when I have more info on it but I’m still building the motor. Just got it from the block shop.
08-01-2020, 11:39 AM
#36
The most realistic diesel swapped toyotas Ive seen are VW TDIs. More power than a Mercedes and easier to fit than everything else mentioned.
Not my area of expertise, just my change.
Not my area of expertise, just my change.
08-01-2020, 06:15 PM
#37
Registered User
Cummins now sells a re-power engine called the R2.8. Check it out on you tube. Its around $9000 but you get a brand new engine with all the stuff to make it run. Lots of swap bell housings available including a swap bell housing for the jeep ax15 aka the R150 series.
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