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Old 11-02-2010, 03:46 PM
  #141  
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Sorry to post here, but I cant create new threads being so new, but I figured this thread would be fitting.

I bought my runner last week (my 2nd toyota ever - the other a 22r camry that I bought simply to flip).

I have scoured the forums tirelessly. I have brought myself up to speed remarkably quick I believe. I bought the runner for $600 with bad head gaskets. (1994 3vze, auto, 4x4) Replaced HG's, new knock sensor, pigtail, and checked the timing belt and cam timing about 5 times before throwing her back together. Had a bad spark plug on #5 cylinder, not gapped properly, but ended up fixing it right. New plugs and wires. Timing checked about 6 times and is 10ded btdc. spot on with 800rpm idle and jumped e1 tec1 leads. Ive gone over the vacuum ports tirelessly.
I have a code 71, because I broke the pigtail on the EGR valve sensor, so this is the only thing I need to replace. Ive checked and rechecked almost everything else. I am a competent diagnostician and know my way around engines (although the 3vze has tested my patience more than any other motor to date).

The crux of the matter: I keep reading about how the 3vze is the 3.slow and how underpowered it is--- but I cant believe just HOW BAD IT IS. Mine runs like a sewing machine, idles fine, running "smooth" but it can barely get out of it's own way. It struggles to pull it's own weight, it labors up hills and seems like its spent at 60-65 mph.

IS THIS HOW UNDERPOWERED THEY NORMALLY ARE? Is it really THAT bad? I cant imagine someone test driving one on the dealer lot brand new and actually buying it. Im hoping that my code 71 egr sensor (its a new sensor, just need to replace the wire) is the issue. This thing is a boat anchor otherwise. It sounds like its struggling, wheezing to breathe. I have a K&N air filter in there, but it just feels like an asthma patient struggling for breath and cant reach his inhaler.
Is this why they call it the 3.slow? Is it THIS bad? I figured that people were just exaggerating (as we tend to do) but can it really be?

Side note, just for reference - Im a Ford guy through and through and have owned about 40 in my 34 year life - I dont care for Toyota cars, but Ive always liked toyota trucks (2nd, 3rd gen 4runners and tacomas) and have ALWAYS wanted one. I think the truck line is fantastic. So far, the 3.slow is leaving a sour taste - noisy, graty, unrefined it seems. My 2000 explorer 4x4 could run circles around this thing I believe. (again, not trying to knock the Yotas - just comparing experience)

Fingers crossed that it's just the EGR - the only other thing I can think of is the bimetal switch (temperature activated vacuum port) on the back of the motor was broken off (so were all the junkyard ones I tried to locate) so I just bypassed and joined the tubes together. (Clueless as to what this effects) Am I expecting too much from this motor?
Old 11-02-2010, 05:33 PM
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I'll give one freebie.

Since you're well aquainted with setting the timing, try setting it as advanced as it will go and still idle smooth. Speaking of idle, the speed of which will increase the more advanced you go. Just keep dialing it back to 800. Then bump the timing more advanced.

Rinse and repeat.

You'll eventually find a happy medium. Depending on certain conditions like exhaust backpressure, intake air restriction, and other factors you'll be able to advance it much further than the pitiful 10° recommended by Toyota. Who did that on purpose to "detune" the engine. They're infamous for it, this trick works on all their pre-OBDII engines.

Try this tip out, then take 'er for a spin.

You'll see. Makes a HUGE difference does it not?

Mine runs like a bat out of hell with the timing set at ~23° BTDC. Other mods applied to achieve that result. All simple and cheap though, but I'm not in the mood to elaborate at the moment. No headers, no cams, no K&N, none of those. Other things, cheaper, simpler, more effective in some senses.

Ah, what the hell, I'm typing this anyway.

ISR mod + solid core spark plug wires + spark plug gap @ .036" + ignition timing set to ~23° BTDC + 91 octane gasoline + AFM 3 clicks lean(idle mixture screw adjustment required for smooth idle) + muffler removed + half hollow catalytic convertor + EGR delete + PAIR delete + my foot planted to the floor on the accelerator pedal = 3VZE that blows right by your stupid _ord with a V8.

So much for the one freebie I guess...

Search code 71 for the 10k ohm resistor fix(only if EGR delete is the goal)and BTSV or TVV for the EVAP.

Last edited by MudHippy; 11-03-2010 at 10:51 AM.
Old 11-02-2010, 05:55 PM
  #143  
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thank you for the response - will be bumping timing considerably in the morning - does 23 degrees necessitate 93 octane?
Will be trying some of your other suggestions too - I appreciate the response. The truck is too awesome overall to let poor engine performance kill the overall experience.

(by the way my Exploder is the 4.0 pushrod (slow) v6 - not the 5.0 - but it is still exponentially more powerful than the 3vze thus far - heres hoping)
Old 11-02-2010, 07:07 PM
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I know this is old talk and I agree that if you want to build a 3.0 than thats cool. Also I hate it when people think honda civics are sports cars or drag cars. Like I said I know this is old but this is BS

my 3.0 gets nearly 20 mpg and thats mostly city. you all must have lead feet. it also has decent HP I raced a friend of mine at work who has a built honda 1.6 with cams bored .20 over and wide open exhaust(stupid btw if you like torque) and msd ignition and I kept right up with him up to 75 before I let off.

Maybe not the gas millage but my wife drives a honda and I used to own a 92 4runner 3.0 that had a new motor and there is no way the 4runner would stay with the honda to 75. Also her civic is a stock 1.6
Old 11-03-2010, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by nolongerjips
does 23 degrees necessitate 93 octane?
Ooops! Forgot to add that detail, previous post revised.

91 octane only. If 93 octane were available in Oregon, then who knows? Maybe ~24° or more.

I can get better than 20 mpg no problem. And I can win a drag race with any Heep with a 4.0L, and have pulled past several rigs with V8s of the 5.0L class and larger headed uphill. So either my 3VZE is an exceptional torque monster compared to it's brethren, or it's mostly driver/tuner skill. I prefer to think it's the latter, but none-the-less it's got PLENTY o' torque in my book.

Last edited by MudHippy; 11-03-2010 at 01:22 PM.
Old 11-03-2010, 10:44 AM
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easy, egr delete, afm cog one click rich, advance timing to 17* headers, OS and unshrouded valves, supra afm and premium gas, she will pull at least mine does, minus the headers
Old 11-03-2010, 03:22 PM
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I bumped the timing to about 17-18* today and noticed remarkable improvement. It's still underpowered IMO, but definitely better off. When I said it was a pig before, I wasn't exaggerating - I could barely maintain 40mph at WOT going uphill and the motor seemed it was gasping for breath at 60mph.

With that much advance Im thinking maybe the timing belt jumped a tooth...? I'm going to bump timing even farther tomorrow and see if that nets even more performance. If I can get 20* advance, and it's still not pinging, it's got to have jumped a tooth - I'm only running 87 octane.

Belt jumping timing fairly common? I've read a few instances on here about it. Looks like i should pull the timing cover as well and check when I get a minute.
Old 11-03-2010, 03:40 PM
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Oh, I'd say it's pretty rare, if not impossible. Could happen hypothetically I guess. It's got the hydraulic tensioner right? That lowers the odds considerably. I'd say there's probably atleast 1000-1 against that ever happening.

I was able to get around 21° BTDC with 87 octane. Around 22° BTDC with 89 octane.

Those are just gross estimates BTW. The plastic gauge stops at 15° BTDC. It's all guess work after that. Don't got no fancy digital display timing light.

I can't make mine ping even with the timing maxed out as far as it will go. I'm assuming that's somewhere on the order of 28° BTDC or better. But the idle is pretty rough when I do that. I like a real smooth idle. Pet peeve I suppose.

Hint: Copy degree symbol. Paste ° into post. See how easy that was?

Last edited by MudHippy; 11-03-2010 at 03:47 PM.
Old 11-03-2010, 03:41 PM
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Why do you all hate your 3.0 v6 ?? i would kill for one of those engines

I have a 2.8 diesel non turbo! , and it has AT BEST 60bhp
and you guys are complaining about having 130bhp or more, so not cool.

My engine is in tip top condition yet it is very very loud, very very slow, and very very thirsty, and has a top speed of about 105 KMH. I WANT A V6
Old 11-03-2010, 03:48 PM
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My 3VZ-E hasn't given me any problems. It's got almost 230,000 miles on it and still runs great. Yeah its a little slow, but it's an SUV I'm not gonna be racing in it.

The P/O of it never changed the oil either, it was straight sludge, like you could roll it up into a ball baseball sized and it would stay haha, and it never gave me problems except for my oil filter getting clogged. it's since been cleaned the best I could and it's running great.

I will admit though that my opinion may change 10,000 miles down the road when my head gasket blows.
Old 11-03-2010, 03:49 PM
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Never heard me complain about it. That's for sure. It was love at first sight in my case. And that love and devotion has only deepened and strengthened as time's gone by. Take my 3VZE away from me now? OVER MY DEAD BODY YOU WILL!!!
Old 11-03-2010, 08:49 PM
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why are you so sure your head gasket WILL blow, it will if you run it hot, most any vehicle will do that ! There are many that never had this issue and gone 250,000 miles ! I guess Ill just sit here and beat this dead horse LOL !!!!
Old 11-03-2010, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bigtrucknwheels

how many of you, 3.0 haters or lovers, doesn't matter, would drive a domestic vehicle as cocky as you drive your Yota? not many. guess what, even babied, the domestics see more shop time than the 3.0.
I drove and beat the living crap out of an 89 ford ranger for a year and had almost no problems:

Blew up front diff doing 4000rpm+ clutch drops playing "horse" while trying to climb a hill covered in shale. And guess what I beat a toyota in the game. I should also mention there was no gear oil in the front diff. Only some mud.





The mud seen in those pictures was the only lube that diff had.

Lost a fuel pump when I ran the truck dry on fuel.

No other issues and I beat that truck far harder than Iv ever beaten my toyota because I just didnt care about it, I got it from my brother and he rolled my 4runner so I fully intended to destroy teh truck.

While I do love Toyotas and never plan to get rid of mine they arent the only durable little truck ever made.
Old 11-03-2010, 10:03 PM
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.....

Last edited by irontoys1; 11-06-2010 at 01:07 PM.
Old 11-03-2010, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by irontoys1
yea that was a stupid remark, back in the day Toyotas didnt even have 4 wheel drive, I tore up cheve, ford and internationals, and who has a dodge power wagon they didnt rag on ! Domestics were dishin it up long before Toyota even was as far as wheelin goes...DUR !
Say what?! Back in what day?

Ever heard of a Toyota Land Cruiser?

The Toyota Land Cruiser (Japanese: トヨタ ランドクルーザー, Toyota Rando-kurūzā?) is a series of four-wheel drive vehicles produced by the Japanese car maker Toyota Motor Corporation. Development of the first generation Land Cruiser began in 1951 as Toyota's version of a Jeep-like vehicle and production started in 1954. The Land Cruiser has been produced in convertible, hardtop, station wagon, and utility truck versions. The Land Cruiser's reliability and longevity has led to huge popularity, especially in Australia where it is the best-selling full-size, body-on-frame, four-wheel drive vehicle. Toyota also extensively tests the Land Cruiser in the Australian outback—considered to be one of the toughest operating environments in terms of both temperature and terrain
Sorry guy.

You just nominated yourself for representation in the "dumbest thing someone's told you about cars" thread.

Try doing a little research before making such blatantly ignorant comments. So as to avoid such incidents in the future.

Thanks!

Last edited by MudHippy; 11-06-2010 at 02:35 PM.
Old 11-03-2010, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MudHippy
Say what?! Back in what day?

Ever heard of a Toyota Land Cruiser?



Sorry guy.

You just nominated yourself for representation in the "dumbest thing someone's told you about cars" thread.

Try doing a little research before making such blatantly ignorant comments. So as to avoid such incidents in the future.

Thanks!
I disagree with that nomination. how many people actual wheel old FJ's compared to teh amount of people who wheel fullsize domestic trucks of the same vintage? The Fjs arent nearly as common and werent really "in the game" until the picups/runners came out.

To this day I have seen 1 Fj40 on the trail and it was on a trailer with a knocking rod.
Old 11-04-2010, 10:28 AM
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Ops ....forgot to mention I was talking about what I drive which is a hilux truck, and they didnt have a hilyx 4x4 until the mid to late 70s I think. And yes the cruzer was decent, after all it was based on a chevy....but again Im talking pickup truck not suv/jeep thing here. and lets look at production numbers...in the 60s it was a lot easier to find a domestic than a toyota and they did not offer a full size pickup back then. But MudHippy you are totally corrrect, I should have been more specific. Dont get me wrong either I have 5 toyota trucks all 4x4s except 1, and I have only one cheyv 4x4, a suburban and its tough but heavy but hauls 8 and gear with a/c yum.

Last edited by irontoys1; 11-04-2010 at 10:31 AM.
Old 11-04-2010, 03:01 PM
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Um did you just say that the landcruiser is based on a chevy? Wow I think that is grounds to get a membership revoked
Old 11-04-2010, 03:40 PM
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History lesson starts now.

Todays subject is the Toyota Land Cruiser. It can't be argued that the Land Cruiser isn't THE MOTHER OF ALL TOYOTA 4X4 VEHICLES. It most certainly is so. The following documentations will show this fact quite clearly. Together we will run through it's history from it's beginning to it's present day designs.

It started in the early 50's as a military vehicle designed to fill the US Army contract for a Jeep type vehicle that could be manufactured in Asia primarily for use by our forces there during the Korean War conflict. It's gone through many evolutionary steps since then, and was actually the most popular Toyota vehicle sold in the US from the period between the years 1961-1965. And by the early 80's Toyota had sold over 1,000,000 Land Cruisers world-wide.

Though it's popularity as an offroad specific vehicle has waned in recent years, it's been the inspiration behind Toyota's recent creation the FJ Cruiser. Which was designed specifically to be used offroad, and is probably the finest trail-rated vehicle Toyota has produced in the last 25 years. It's "boxy" style body design is a direct throwback to the styling of the Land Cruiser FJ40. Which was dubbed by the wheeling community as "The Iron Pig" for it's somewhat ugly appearance yet undeniable fortitude, and is considered by some to be one of the most rugged and capable offroad vehicles of all time. In some ways the FJ Cruiser fails to outshine it's predecessor. Namely the lack of a solid front axle and the offroad capabilties it affords. It's paint scheme is also entirely derived from the white-topped FJ40s, which was their most distinguishing characteristic.

Toyota Land Cruiser

The Toyota Land Cruiser 4 x 4 has a long evolutionary history beginning back in 1951 when the vehicle was primarily used by the military overseas. At that time, the off road vehicle that had been manufactured and designed using the army surplus materials available from Toyota's government contract was a lightweight vehicle with a heavy duty engine and transmission. In 1954 the aggressive 4 x 4 was officially named the Land Cruiser.

Years of engineering and design expertise have been incorporated into the Land Cruiser. By 1965 the Land Cruiser was the best selling Toyota vehicle in the United States. Although this powerful 4 x 4 was designed to excel during off road driving, as the vehicle itself grew in popularity, the overall size of the Land Cruiser grew as well to accommodate the needs and desires of a larger group of automotive consumers that did not spend the majority of the time off road. However, off road capability never diminished. It only stands to reason with the vehicle's increase in overall size, upgraded materials, advanced engineering and new technologies that the cost of the vehicle would increase as well. Though the initial investment is comparatively high, the majority of Land Cruiser owners and industry analysts do agree that you get what you pay for with this vehicle-true 4 x 4 off road capabilities and utility within a constantly distinctive exterior and a more lavish interior.

The success of the Land Cruiser in the United States can be measured by high sales and customer satisfaction statistics as well as by the prestigious recognition this hard working and chameleon-like vehicle has received from experts in the automotive industry. In 1980, the Land Cruiser was the recipient of Off Road Magazine's 4 x 4 of the Year Award. From that point on, barely a year was missed when this evolutionary vehicle did not receive a highly recognized award in America, including the 'Most Reliable SUV' from Consumer Reports and the 'Best Buy Premium Large SUV' from Consumer Guide for the 2005 model year.

For the 2007 model year, the full size luxury 4X4 Toyota Land Cruiser SUV is equipped with a 4.7 liter V8 engine and smoothly transports driver and passengers in a luxuriously appointed interior over a variety of terrain. The versatile design of the cargo and passenger areas enable a variety of interior configurations to easily adapt to your changing needs.
History of the Toyota Land Cruiser

From its humble beginnings in 1950 as a development project based on the design of the Willys Jeep, the Land Cruiser has taken its rightful place as Toyota's flagship four-wheel drive vehicle. All dates are Toyota model year, and not necessarily the year in which the model was released.

1950
Development for the Model BJ prototype begins in Japan.

1951
When the Land Cruiser (then named "Model BJ") was first tested in August 1951, it climbed to the sixth station of Mt. Fuji -- the first motor vehicle to perform this feat. The first orders for the vehicle were from police and forestry departments because of its off-road abilities.

1954
The BJ was formally named Land Cruiser, and it officially entered mass-production, rather than being built on a made-to-order basis.

1955
The original 85 horsepower diesel engine was replaced with a 125 horsepower F-series 3.8L gasoline unit.

1958
The formal introduction of the Land Cruiser to the U.S. It was this year that the first hard-top version was introduced.

1961
A pickup and wagon version of the Cruiser were introduced in Japan.

1961 - 1965
Land Cruiser is the best selling Toyota in the U.S.

1965
The Land Cruiser moved toward the mainstream U.S. market with the introduction of the five-door station wagon, the F55. The wagon was hailed as a vehicle that was competent enough to drive through the back country, yet was comfortable and power enough to drive on any public street.

1967
Mid year, the U.S. sales introduction of a hardtop version of the two-door.

1968
100,000th Land Cruiser sold worldwide.

1972
200,000th Land Cruiser sold worldwide.

1973
300,000th Land Cruiser sold worldwide.

1975
The 3.8L engine was replaced by a larger and more powerful 4.2L version, making the Land Cruiser easier to drive. For the home market (Japan), Land Cruiser has almost always been available with a diesel engine -- originally 3.2L, reintroduced a 3.0L in 1976, and updated to 3.2L again in 1979 -- but was never officially available in the U.S.

1980
The 2nd generation station wagon is introduced as the FJ80 and the U.S. Land Cruiser earns the "4x4 of the Year" award by Off-Road magazine.

1981
The 1,000,000th Land Cruiser is sold.

1983
This was the last year of sales for the FJ40 (although production ended in 1979).

1988
Minor updates to the wagon took place in this year.

1990
Consumer's Digest names the Land Cruiser a "Best Buy", and the 2,000,000th Cruiser is sold.

1991
The 3rd generation of the wagon, the FJ80, was a larger, more luxurious vehicle that sported full-time four-wheel-drive and a fully independent four-wheel coil-spring suspension. It was named one of Consumer Digest's "Best Buys" and the "Best Full-Size SUV in Customer Satisfaction" by J.D. Power & Associates.

1992
"Best Full-Sized Sport Utility" in IQS and CSI, J.D. Power, and among "Best Buys" by Consumers Digest.

1993
The Land Cruiser grows up a little more, now sporting a 24-valve, DOHC inline six-cylinder engine displacing 4.5L. The Cruiser produced 212 horsepower and 275 pound-feet of torque, and was more capable of pulling Land Cruiser's 5153 pounds of curb weight.

This model of Cruiser was a far cry from the 1953 model, sporting optional leather upholstery, available seating for eight, an available compact-disc player, manually, locking front and rear, and automatic locking center differentials, Land Cruiser was now a shadow of its former self. This Cruiser was again named "Best Full-Sized Sport Utility" in IQS, J.D. Power, and among "Best Buys" by Consumers Digest magazine.

1994
Changes were minimal (changes have only been made when necessary). The only change was the addition of CFC-free air-conditioning. Among Consumers Digest "Best Buys".

1995
In 1995, Land Cruiser took a large step toward additional passenger safety. With more and more consumers, using their "sport-utility" vehicles as passenger cars, and those consumers looking for vehicles that offer enhanced safety features, Toyota was ready. Along with a new grille featuring redesigned headlights, the 1995 Land Cruiser included as standard equipment, both driver and passenger side airbags and adjustable shoulder-belt anchors, and ABS. These additions did nothing to diminish Land Cruiser's off-the-road abilities, though, and it continues on as the most refined, most capable four-wheel-drive vehicle on the market.

1996
"Best Full-Size SUV in Initial Quality" - J.D. Power

1997
"Luxury SUV Best Buy" - Four Wheeler magazine. "Best Overall Truck: Resale Value After Three Years of Ownership" - ADP Autosource Survey. "1997 Top Three Vehicles in Initial Quality-Full-Sized Segment" -J.D. Power.

1998
Toyota introduced the 5th generation Land Cruiser, the first all new Cruiser since 1991. The new Cruiser is larger, heavier, structurally more solid and substantially more powerful than its predecessor. Yet it delivers improved fuel efficiency, lower emissions and considerably quicker, more responsive acceleration. It also features the first V8 engine in a Toyota Division vehicle. The all new 4.7L 32 valve DOHC produces 230 horsepower, 18 more than its predecessor's inline six-cylinder, and 320 lbs.-ft. of torque, an improvement of 45 over the '97 model.

1999
The recently redesigned Land Cruiser features an independent rear automatic climate control system for added convenience and passenger comfort. It receives the "Best Full-Size Sport Utility Vehicle Segment" award by J.D. Power.

2000
Toyota again raised the benchmark in SUV performance and refinement by adding active traction control (Active TRAC), vehicle skid control equipment (VSC), and electronic brake force distribution (EBD) systems as standard equipment. The Cruiser also added a six-disc in-dash CD player as standard.

2001
The legendary Land Cruiser has a few new additions. It features an available navigation system with DVD player, standard auto dimming rear view mirror, and integrated compass in the rear view mirror (on models without the navigation system), JBL three-in-one AM/FM/Cassette/CD six-disc in-dash changer with seven speakers with an available Electro Multi-Vision screen with center console six-disc CD player.

Notes
Land Cruiser: Land Cruiser is Toyota's flagship four-wheel drive vehicle. The name implies its go-anywhere ability.

The Land Cruiser is built at the Araco Corporation plant in Toyota City, Japan.
Any questions?

Last edited by MudHippy; 11-06-2010 at 02:58 PM.
Old 11-04-2010, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by phildelfino
Regardless of what I or anyone thinks about the power, this 3 L motor is reliable. Look at all the people with over 200K miles without rebuilds. Although I must also say I quite enjoyed a 5 speed, 4.3 L V6 GM motor in my 91 S 10. 28 MPG on the hiway and would love one in my 88 4 Runner. In my opinion this is a good motor with longevity and would have been worthy of Toyota copying.
I've seen many a high mileage 4.3 as well. Not a lot of hp but a good torque curve/decent on fuel for it's size and reliable. No surprise really given it's a SBC missing a couple of cylinders.


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