toomster

Hello all,
so here is what has been going on. I just finished putting a new head rear seal, steel timing guides, timing kit and clutch kit in my 22-re 4runner. Once I finished putting it all back together I started it up and let it idle for a few min, and it sounded alright. I cannot get the timing set to where it needs to be, so it could be the timing that is making this noise, but I somewhat doubt it. Once I finished putting it all back together, I took it to the muffler shop to get a new muffler. On the way there it started making a nasty popping type almost slapping noise that it did not make before I started the tear down. I thought it might have something to do witht he exhaust system so I asked the techs to look at it. After replacing from my cat back they told me to replace the EGR gasket near the exhaust manafold and to retorque the manifold nuts. I went on my merry way thinking it was most likely the egr gasket that I could feel leaking. I replaced that today, and retorqued the manafold and I still have the same sound. To be certain I made sure the EGR unit on the intake side of the head was torqued properly, as well as the plate on the back of the head. (PITA to get to). Nothing it still made the awfull sound. I posted a video of the sound on youtube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJKve5dr2-o . As you can hear it only makes the noise when the engine is under load. The video is with the tires chocked and the parking brake on in 1st gear burning some clutch life.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I am just about ready to throw in the towel here. Pretty frusterated.

Thanks

Flash319

That sounds like your PAIR valve sucking air NOT through the airbox.

iamsuperbleeder

the low tone of it almost leads me to the PAIR system:



check to make sure all of the hoses are secure on it



dangit flash, you beat me to it

abecedarian

grab a piece of 3/8" hose, preferably a few feet long and get someone to blip the throttle so it makes the noise... put one end of the hose in your ear and go hunting with the other end.

xzyragon

umm... i got my PAIR valve running through a mini filter I got sittin on the resonator...

does it need to be going through the airbox, because mine works fine without it...

abecedarian

No. The PAIR valve gets its air before the air goes through the AFM.

toomster

I did a quick look around the inlet hoses to the PAIR valve, and all of them looked in good shape. As far as I could tell it did not look like any of the air going into Pair valve was metered. I did notice something though, the small red VSV valve that the vacume lines run to was broken. One of the hoses pulled off the nipple for the posterior hose. I epoxied on the nipple and it seemed to work fine, could glue in the VSV valve be making it stick and causing that noise?

Flash319

You can do whatever you want with it. Just if it is to "open" then you will hear it gargling. It just dumps air into the exhaust so not a big deal.

toomster

The plot thickens a bit here. I knew the timing was off, but I didnt realize how severly. I am using the factory installed dash tach to get my RPMS , but if I try to hit 5deg before top dead center the truck sounds awfull sputtering, and backfiring. It sounds like it runs great with the timing notch all the way off the passanger side of the printed gauge on the oil pump. I have the plug jumpered with the wire (paperclip), and I am not certain if I have a good connection. The check engine light would flash then stop and go away for a min or two then come back and flash. My understanding was it was supposed to continually flash. Now my check engine light stays on continuously and my local parts dealer cannot find the code reader for a Toyota. If I jumper the plug should it still flash? any guesses as to why it would be so far off?

874runnersr5

it could be off a tooth on the distributor?

xzyragon

its very possible it could be.

If it is, and he takes it out and puts it back in, he'll be able to tell the difference

toomster

I will certainly try tonight, but if it was off a tooth wouldnt it run awfull anywhere within the adjustment for the distributor cap, and could that cause something with the noise heard in the video?

toomster

I was able to get the timing set to 8deg before TDC but that is as far as the distributor will turn. Even at 8deg before TDC I sill have the same noise. Tonight I will take a 3 foot extension and see if I can isolate the area of the sound a bit more. Also going to put in the old spark plugs and see if that makes a difference. Anyone else have other suggestions? Thanks all who have offered assistance to this point.

abecedarian

if everything is fine, inserting the jumper and turning the key on should result in a continuous flashing of the CEL- twice each second. so 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink' 'blink'
...ad infinitum.
Also, the TPS has to be adjusted properly, else the ECU won't go into the right mode to let you adjust the timing- the timing can read anywhere from 8-20 degrees advanced (and it often fluctuates between those readings) if the TPS isn't doing what it's supposed to.

toomster

Thanks abecedarian I think the timing is pretty close now. I took your advice and tried listening all over the engine bay to try to find the noise. I checked near the tranny and it was forward of the tranny. I did find that I could make it produce the noise without the engine under load. If i would blip the throttle it would make the noise once or twice. I was feeling around the exhaust manifold and felt what could have been a small leak or just the fan blowing back on the engine. In the end I was unable to isolate the sound to any one location in specific, but I did get myself a bit more convinced that it sounds like a possible exhaust leak. I tried retorquing the exhaust manifold bolts again, but was unsuccessfull in altering the sound any. I did check the PAIR valve a bit more closely and I could hear the gurgling noise quite well. I checked all around the valve cover to check for severely out of adjustment valves, but that sound didnt sound like my issue. After putting on the new head I set them as close as I could cold. I then warmed up the engine let it cool down and retorqued the head bolts and reset the valves. Then drove about 45 miles and repeated it again. Still no luck I can not figure out the noise any other ideas anyone?

toomster

Thinking about it more would it make sense for me to take off the exhaust manifold, replace the gaskets, and this time slather them down good with some permatex high temp copper gasket maker, or is that stuff tabo for exhaust man gaskets?

xzyragon

no, it would mean that you would have to turn the distributor to the max one way or another to get an OK timing

In reality it should be around the middle (in my experience). To pull / put the sucker in (i had to replace mine) it required honing. If you do pull it out and its super tough, you can hone it with VERY fine grit sand paper or that wet / dry stuff. After you sand, clean it with rubbing alcohol to make sure u dont get gunk in ur engine.

sinneDBTB

i have experienced odd sounds under load that were remedied by a thorough cleaning of the entire air intake system, especially the tps.

toomster

Thank you all for your help. It ended up being the exhaust crossover into the PAIR valve. It was loose, and quite well hidden.