92 4Runner will not start when warm
03-26-2011, 05:18 PM
#21
I'm just guessing here, but since it's an auto, maybe it's related to the TPS in that when under load with an Auto, the TPS might adjust differently to compensate? What you're explaining sounds far more like REALLY low fluid or post toasty torque converter? Possibly solenoids going bad or malfunctioning? Just for the hell of it, check the trans/fluid level? not insulting ya, man,...just stranger things have happened, lol.
Still NO CODES, EITHER? No 'check engine lights at all? Have you jumped the connectors to check for codes yet, seeing if anything is stored?
Still NO CODES, EITHER? No 'check engine lights at all? Have you jumped the connectors to check for codes yet, seeing if anything is stored?
03-27-2011, 09:44 AM
#24
Registered User
Thread Starter
I still think the majority of my problems lie with the TPS. As I stated earlier, it is new as I just changed it recently. I am having trouble understanding how to adjust it to the correct ohm position. I have read the how to on this site but am still not understanding. Sorry. 
Throttle Position Sensor IDL-E2 Adjustment Procedure (courtesy of Frankenyota):
1. Loosen both screws attaching TPS to throttle body.
2. Attach multi-meter to TPS terminals IDL and E2 (the bottom two terminals on the TPS).
1. You can use alligator clips to make this easier or use small ¼" lengths of vacuum hose to hold them on
3. Insert 0.85mm (22RE) or 0.77mm (3VZE) feeler gauge between throttle stop screw and throttle plate (see picture)
4. Move TPS body CW/CCW until ohms reading on multimeter is infinite (open)
5. Move the TPS body very slowly CCW until you find the end of the resistive strip, the meter will indicate <2.3Kohms of resistance
6. Move the TPS body extremely slowly in the CW direction until the meter goes to open/infinite again
7. Tighten the top TPS screw being very careful not to disturb the adjustment
8. Remove the feeler gauge and insert a 0.57mm (22RE) or 0.50mm (3VZE) feeler gauge
9. The meter should (hopefully) indicate between 0 and 2.3Kohms of resistance.
1. If it does tighten the bottom screw and reconnect the electrical connector.
2. If not go back to step 4 and try again
10. To check whether the adjustment was successful start the engine and insert the timing test jumper.
1. If the idle speed decreases audibly it is working normally.
While the above tests performed at the TPS itself do verify that the sensor itself it functioing, it does not test the continuity of the wiring in the harness that ultimately connects the TPS signals to the ECU. If TPS problems are suspected and the TPS itself checks out fine, then repeat the above tests at the ECU connector pins to verify they are reaching the ECU properly.
Throttle Position Sensor IDL-E2 Adjustment Procedure (courtesy of Frankenyota):
1. Loosen both screws attaching TPS to throttle body.
2. Attach multi-meter to TPS terminals IDL and E2 (the bottom two terminals on the TPS).
1. You can use alligator clips to make this easier or use small ¼" lengths of vacuum hose to hold them on
3. Insert 0.85mm (22RE) or 0.77mm (3VZE) feeler gauge between throttle stop screw and throttle plate (see picture)
4. Move TPS body CW/CCW until ohms reading on multimeter is infinite (open)
5. Move the TPS body very slowly CCW until you find the end of the resistive strip, the meter will indicate <2.3Kohms of resistance
6. Move the TPS body extremely slowly in the CW direction until the meter goes to open/infinite again
7. Tighten the top TPS screw being very careful not to disturb the adjustment
8. Remove the feeler gauge and insert a 0.57mm (22RE) or 0.50mm (3VZE) feeler gauge
9. The meter should (hopefully) indicate between 0 and 2.3Kohms of resistance.
1. If it does tighten the bottom screw and reconnect the electrical connector.
2. If not go back to step 4 and try again
10. To check whether the adjustment was successful start the engine and insert the timing test jumper.
1. If the idle speed decreases audibly it is working normally.
While the above tests performed at the TPS itself do verify that the sensor itself it functioing, it does not test the continuity of the wiring in the harness that ultimately connects the TPS signals to the ECU. If TPS problems are suspected and the TPS itself checks out fine, then repeat the above tests at the ECU connector pins to verify they are reaching the ECU properly.
03-27-2011, 10:06 AM
#25
First thing, sorry if I missed it.... Are you removing the Throttle body to do this? If not, I highly recommend it for the first time. You DON'T HAVE TO, but it would help. If you need to, I can go out and shoot a video for ya of the easiest way to remove the throttle body and plug up the Coolant IACV hoses, etc.
DANG IT, I had a video of doing this, a great one, with a buddy. We were putting a new motor in his rig. The video shows how VERY TOUCHY these things are, Phin. They also show that it's MUCH EASIER to do this "Adjusting the TPS" on a bench.
FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT thing to begin with is that you get the "Stop Screw" set JUST as it's said. If you don't, then the TPS and ECU will be not working together very well, and bottom line you can't properly set it without getting that set, first.
Something you'll have to ask Roger, ...."Is it possible I got the TPS in with the arms opposite of where they're supposed to be over the spring?" I can't remember if it's even possible.
With it on the bench in my friends shop, we fastened it to the table with a strap, BECAUSE it's so touchy while turning the TPS to adjust.
DANG IT, I had a video of doing this, a great one, with a buddy. We were putting a new motor in his rig. The video shows how VERY TOUCHY these things are, Phin. They also show that it's MUCH EASIER to do this "Adjusting the TPS" on a bench.
FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT thing to begin with is that you get the "Stop Screw" set JUST as it's said. If you don't, then the TPS and ECU will be not working together very well, and bottom line you can't properly set it without getting that set, first.
Something you'll have to ask Roger, ...."Is it possible I got the TPS in with the arms opposite of where they're supposed to be over the spring?" I can't remember if it's even possible.
With it on the bench in my friends shop, we fastened it to the table with a strap, BECAUSE it's so touchy while turning the TPS to adjust.
03-27-2011, 10:08 AM
#26
So what is the exact source of the understanding issue? What step(s) is(are) confusing? As noted, don't get hung up on the exact 0.001", close enough is usually fine:
# Test #2 and #3 test the transition from idle to normal operation
* Note that the exact feeler gauge values are not terribly important, use the closest gauge you have to the value, or stack two thinner gauges to make one the right thickness. Its unlikely you'll be able to adjust the TPS by hand to 0.001" anyway (in fact if you can get within 0.01" or 0.1mm you are doing pretty good!).
* And note that there are a range of values for these tests on the V6 TPS. One might suspect that the "exact" throttle opening where the IDL-E2 setting changes from below 2300 ohms to infinite makes little difference. Rather it is the fact that it *does* change and does so at a small throttle opening (under 1mm or so). Whether that happens at 0.50mm, 0.70mm, or even 0.90mm probably makes little difference.
o Setting the TPS idle transition too close to 0 opening may result in a rough idling engine if the throttle were to stick open a tiny bit.
o Setting the transition too far out, would result in a sluggish throttle response, since the ECU would see a longer idle section on the TPS.
o Note: 0.80mm is about the thickness of a typical credit card, 0.50mm is about the thickness of a thinner plastic gift card, in case you lack a set of feeler gauges.
* So, if your TPS makes the idle transition (below 2300 to infinite) but you can only get it to do so at say 0.90mm instead of at 0.85mm, for example, does this mean the TPS is bad? Probably not, if everything else checks out, you may just be seeing the effect of the mfg. tolerances of the TPS and the throttle body stacking up and pushing the setting outside the "normal" range. Now, if the TPS never makes the idle transition (i.e. it reads infinite at all throttle openings), then likely it is bad.
* And don't worry if THE GAP is not dead on. There are no "TPS Police" that are going to pull you over and whip out a set of feeler gauges to check your IDLe transition point.
o Heck, even the dreaded California smog tech's don't even look at the TPS as part of the visual check. As long as the engine is timed right (which relies on the TPS-IDL setting), that is all they care about.
* Also, don't get hung up on getting some exact resistance reading.
o Less than 2300 (2.3K) ohms means just that, anything less than 2300 is fine; 2299 is less than 2300. 996.5 is less than 2300, 0.1 is less than 2300.
o Basically any reading in the range of 0.0 to 2299.9 is less than 2300. If your meter reads less than 2300, that is fine.
* Note that the exact feeler gauge values are not terribly important, use the closest gauge you have to the value, or stack two thinner gauges to make one the right thickness. Its unlikely you'll be able to adjust the TPS by hand to 0.001" anyway (in fact if you can get within 0.01" or 0.1mm you are doing pretty good!).
* And note that there are a range of values for these tests on the V6 TPS. One might suspect that the "exact" throttle opening where the IDL-E2 setting changes from below 2300 ohms to infinite makes little difference. Rather it is the fact that it *does* change and does so at a small throttle opening (under 1mm or so). Whether that happens at 0.50mm, 0.70mm, or even 0.90mm probably makes little difference.
o Setting the TPS idle transition too close to 0 opening may result in a rough idling engine if the throttle were to stick open a tiny bit.
o Setting the transition too far out, would result in a sluggish throttle response, since the ECU would see a longer idle section on the TPS.
o Note: 0.80mm is about the thickness of a typical credit card, 0.50mm is about the thickness of a thinner plastic gift card, in case you lack a set of feeler gauges.
* So, if your TPS makes the idle transition (below 2300 to infinite) but you can only get it to do so at say 0.90mm instead of at 0.85mm, for example, does this mean the TPS is bad? Probably not, if everything else checks out, you may just be seeing the effect of the mfg. tolerances of the TPS and the throttle body stacking up and pushing the setting outside the "normal" range. Now, if the TPS never makes the idle transition (i.e. it reads infinite at all throttle openings), then likely it is bad.
* And don't worry if THE GAP is not dead on. There are no "TPS Police" that are going to pull you over and whip out a set of feeler gauges to check your IDLe transition point.
o Heck, even the dreaded California smog tech's don't even look at the TPS as part of the visual check. As long as the engine is timed right (which relies on the TPS-IDL setting), that is all they care about.
* Also, don't get hung up on getting some exact resistance reading.
o Less than 2300 (2.3K) ohms means just that, anything less than 2300 is fine; 2299 is less than 2300. 996.5 is less than 2300, 0.1 is less than 2300.
o Basically any reading in the range of 0.0 to 2299.9 is less than 2300. If your meter reads less than 2300, that is fine.
Last edited by 4Crawler; 03-27-2011 at 10:27 AM.
03-27-2011, 10:09 AM
#27
But first thing.... HAVE YOU CHECKED THE COOLANT TEMP SENSOR? If it reads bad, IT'S BAD, and if that's the case....well, there you go, you would STILL have to get the TPS right, .....but no matter if you get the TPS PERFECT, ....it wont make any difference if that Coolant Temp Sensor is BAD, ya know?
EDIT:
PS> Sorry, I just remembered this is a V6,.....not sure on the Throttle body removal difficulty, never messed with one. Also, I'll just get out the way and let Roger help you out here! lol.
EDIT:
PS> Sorry, I just remembered this is a V6,.....not sure on the Throttle body removal difficulty, never messed with one. Also, I'll just get out the way and let Roger help you out here! lol.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 03-27-2011 at 10:14 AM.
03-27-2011, 10:27 AM
#28
Registered User
Thread Starter
First thing, sorry if I missed it.... Are you removing the Throttle body to do this? If not, I highly recommend it for the first time. You DON'T HAVE TO, but it would help. If you need to, I can go out and shoot a video for ya of the easiest way to remove the throttle body and plug up the Coolant IACV hoses, etc.
DANG IT, I had a video of doing this, a great one, with a buddy. We were putting a new motor in his rig. The video shows how VERY TOUCHY these things are, Phin. They also show that it's MUCH EASIER to do this "Adjusting the TPS" on a bench.
FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT thing to begin with is that you get the "Stop Screw" set JUST as it's said. If you don't, then the TPS and ECU will be not working together very well, and bottom line you can't properly set it without getting that set, first.
Something you'll have to ask Roger, ...."Is it possible I got the TPS in with the arms opposite of where they're supposed to be over the spring?" I can't remember if it's even possible.
With it on the bench in my friends shop, we fastened it to the table with a strap, BECAUSE it's so touchy while turning the TPS to adjust.
DANG IT, I had a video of doing this, a great one, with a buddy. We were putting a new motor in his rig. The video shows how VERY TOUCHY these things are, Phin. They also show that it's MUCH EASIER to do this "Adjusting the TPS" on a bench.
FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT thing to begin with is that you get the "Stop Screw" set JUST as it's said. If you don't, then the TPS and ECU will be not working together very well, and bottom line you can't properly set it without getting that set, first.
Something you'll have to ask Roger, ...."Is it possible I got the TPS in with the arms opposite of where they're supposed to be over the spring?" I can't remember if it's even possible.
With it on the bench in my friends shop, we fastened it to the table with a strap, BECAUSE it's so touchy while turning the TPS to adjust.
03-27-2011, 10:30 AM
#29
Never played with a V6 TB, but for the throttle stop screw, look closely along the throttle linkage for any part of it that comes to rest on the end of a set screw with the throttle closed. There should also be one that contacts the linkage at WOT, and both screws are usually close by each other, at least on the same part of the linkage.
03-27-2011, 11:37 AM
#30
Asked ya before, can't remember if you answered, Phin,.....
Do you have a Manual, or are you referring to/do you have an FSM from here on this site? CRITICAL to helping you in stopping of chasing your tail. I think you said you were checking something in the book, can't remember.
Anyway, I scanned this for ya from my Haynes, .....
Do you have a Manual, or are you referring to/do you have an FSM from here on this site? CRITICAL to helping you in stopping of chasing your tail. I think you said you were checking something in the book, can't remember.
Anyway, I scanned this for ya from my Haynes, .....
03-27-2011, 11:46 AM
#31
Registered User
Thread Starter
Asked ya before, can't remember if you answered, Phin,.....
Do you have a Manual, or are you referring to/do you have an FSM from here on this site? CRITICAL to helping you in stopping of chasing your tail. I think you said you were checking something in the book, can't remember.
Anyway, I scanned this for ya from my Haynes, .....
Do you have a Manual, or are you referring to/do you have an FSM from here on this site? CRITICAL to helping you in stopping of chasing your tail. I think you said you were checking something in the book, can't remember.
Anyway, I scanned this for ya from my Haynes, .....
03-27-2011, 12:02 PM
#33
FSM is a Factory Service Manual.... There are MANY on this site, .......but I can't tell you exactly where to go for the right link to download. I think a few have the 88-95 V6 FSM in their sigs. I'll ask around, because the FSM is FAR MORE in depth than the Haynes. An FSM will go through a 'tree' like pattern of "test this, if that is ok, then this, this, this, etc.", ya know? Plus, many tests that are just not in the Haynes.
Here's the Coolant temp Sensor page from my haynes....one more time, DO YOU HAVE A MANUAL OF ANY KIND? HAHAHA..............I ask, because if you had a haynes, for example, I could just give you page numbers, etc., ya know? I've been through the EFI and Ignition and ECU sections of the FSM and Haynes MANY TIMES, and I've learned a lot, .....but the V6, as you could see in that page I posted, is NOT THE SAME READINGS/FEELER GAUGES AS THE 22RE! EEK!
hehehe.
Here's the Coolant temp Sensor page from my haynes....one more time, DO YOU HAVE A MANUAL OF ANY KIND? HAHAHA..............I ask, because if you had a haynes, for example, I could just give you page numbers, etc., ya know? I've been through the EFI and Ignition and ECU sections of the FSM and Haynes MANY TIMES, and I've learned a lot, .....but the V6, as you could see in that page I posted, is NOT THE SAME READINGS/FEELER GAUGES AS THE 22RE! EEK!
hehehe.
03-27-2011, 12:33 PM
#34
Registered User
Thread Starter
Yes I have a manual but do not care for it at all. It is a Chilton. I've owned Haynes in the past and like them much better. I think I will purchase again as soon as I can find one.
What about the Coolant Temp Sensor and ECT? Same thing?
What about the Coolant Temp Sensor and ECT? Same thing?
03-27-2011, 01:04 PM
#35
Don't think so, Phin,.....not the same as far as I know. I thought the ECT was on top of the thermostat housing(not sure on the V6). The books as far as I know, refer to what I just posted, with pics, as the "Coolant Temperature Sensor",....and it's CRITICAL that you rule that out, before moving on any further, k? The ECU COULD, MAYBE, have issues...but it's SO RARE. Best thing to do is to swap out a known working one from the same year(FREE TEST, not buying one, especially since yards wont let you return them, most often). FAR MORE OFTEN for the Coolant temp sensor to take a hike south. I've replaced them on 2 of my 5 Toyotas(older ones, like yours and mine). Each time, they were causing CRAZY problems!
Let us know what results you get from the CTsensor tests with your multi-meter, k?
Let us know what results you get from the CTsensor tests with your multi-meter, k?
04-19-2011, 04:35 PM
#36
Registered User
Thread Starter
Alright guys, I know it's been a while but my all of my issues in the thread are solved. I found a mechanic that finally chased down a ground wire that was not connected. I'm not exactly sure which one but had something to do with the injectors not pulsing when reaching a certain temp. Anyway, the truck runs fantastic. Great power, shifts smoothly and cranks every time. Oh, he also removed the throttle body and adjusted the TPS sensor for me to the correct position. Thank you guys so much for all of your help and advise. I'm so relieved my nightmare is over. 
04-19-2011, 08:03 PM
#37
Thanks for the update, Phins.... HATE it when people get a few leads, bone out and then never let us know what the deal was.
HAPPY FOR YA!
PS> Would you mind asking him, SPECIFICALLY, so we could have a real PINPOINT place to look? Maybe have him show you or something? Many of us still have gremlins that just seem hopelessly difficult, ya know? Would be much appreciated. (I'm guessing it's some ground to the Injector Resistor or something.... just guessing, lol)
Happy Trials!
HAPPY FOR YA!
PS> Would you mind asking him, SPECIFICALLY, so we could have a real PINPOINT place to look? Maybe have him show you or something? Many of us still have gremlins that just seem hopelessly difficult, ya know? Would be much appreciated. (I'm guessing it's some ground to the Injector Resistor or something.... just guessing, lol)
Happy Trials!
04-20-2011, 05:06 AM
#38
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thanks for the update, Phins.... HATE it when people get a few leads, bone out and then never let us know what the deal was.
HAPPY FOR YA!
PS> Would you mind asking him, SPECIFICALLY, so we could have a real PINPOINT place to look? Maybe have him show you or something? Many of us still have gremlins that just seem hopelessly difficult, ya know? Would be much appreciated. (I'm guessing it's some ground to the Injector Resistor or something.... just guessing, lol)
Happy Trials!
HAPPY FOR YA!
PS> Would you mind asking him, SPECIFICALLY, so we could have a real PINPOINT place to look? Maybe have him show you or something? Many of us still have gremlins that just seem hopelessly difficult, ya know? Would be much appreciated. (I'm guessing it's some ground to the Injector Resistor or something.... just guessing, lol)
Happy Trials!
CS
02-16-2013, 07:59 PM
#40
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Alright guys, I know it's been a while but my all of my issues in the thread are solved. I found a mechanic that finally chased down a ground wire that was not connected. I'm not exactly sure which one but had something to do with the injectors not pulsing when reaching a certain temp. Anyway, the truck runs fantastic. Great power, shifts smoothly and cranks every time. Oh, he also removed the throttle body and adjusted the TPS sensor for me to the correct position. Thank you guys so much for all of your help and advise. I'm so relieved my nightmare is over.
