Free State Yota

Hey guys,

I am having intermittent starting problems. I bought a 91 4runner back in late October and two weeks later it would not start at random times. For example, we would drive it an hour away, go for a 15 minute walk, come back, and it would not start. Other times it would not start after sitting all night. At times it would go two weeks without a problem, and at other times it would not start three or four times in a few days. To get the vehicle to start, I would jump it with another vehicle. However, eventually that did not work. I hit the starter with a wrench and then it would start. So I replaced the starter using Jim Rockford's excellent directions. [edit] Before replacing the starter, I installed a new battery and still had problems.

A few days later I started having problems again. When I started the 4runner the starter would not turn off! However, this was probably happening because when we put the starter in we stripped the top bolt. This meant that the starter would move and there would be a gap. I think that the fly wheels were not lining up when this happened, thus it would not turn the starter off. Anyways, I only bring up this starter because there was two or three times where I went to start the vehicle and it would not start--I had to hit it with a wrench.

After a week and a half of that nonsense I replaced the starter again. And I am still having problems! The starter has been in for a month, and I've had to hit it with a wrench four or five times. Considering I start the 4runner 2-8 times a day, this is not bad.

Is there something else I should replace? Or have I gotten bad refab starters from Pep Boys? Does hitting the starter with a wrench to make it start guarantee that the starter is bad? Or can it be something else? Thanks!

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Clean, inspect, and replace or reattach firmly.. all the wiring.. ignition switch and starter relay.

ldivinag

battery?

Free State Yota

I replaced the battery before I replaced the stater. This did not help.

I will again look into the starter relay, but when I searched before I could not find any directions or pictures or location of a starter relay for a 1991 4x4 auto 4runner. I read conflicting posts about whether or not it even has a starter relay.

JonnyBoy

When it doesn't start, is it just giving a single click? If so, then you've got a solenoid problem, and maybe the reman units you've been getting aren't very good. I'd say best bet now is remove it, open up the solenoid, and give everything a good clean with some electrical contact cleaner. Basically free, and if that doesn't work, you may need to get another starter. Either OEM or at least a better one than you've gotten.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

You definatly have a starter relay(Relay block #2). Don't forget to check the ignition switch its self on the steering wheel, and the clutch start cancel switch(Not to be confused with the "Clutch start switch" that is on the pedal).

mstolz

Free State,

Did you figure this out? I'm having the exact same issue, new starter, not the battery etc. I can hear a single click at the stater when this happens. I've traced the wires and all looks clean. Only thing I haven't done I believe is replace the stater relay. May just do this to see what happens

Free State Yota

No, I have not. Unfortunately, since my post it has gotten real bad. Yesterday I had to hit the starter with a wrench three times throughout the day to get it to start. Heh, it's embarrassing to have to ask strangers to turn my key while I do this. The weather here in NH has been way too cold for me to work on it. I don't have a garage/shop. I've been researching the "big 3 upgrade" on these forums, thinking that it might be bad wiring. However, there is lots of talk about the big 3 but I can't find a single thing with good directions and pictures that tells me what to do.

Where is the starter relay on your rig? I tried some searches for that, too, but could not find any pictures of a starter relay or where it is located. Please update this thread if you solve your problem.

Right now I'm just waiting it out until the weather gets in the high 40s. Then I may poke around under the hood.

mstolz

I’m working on a 89 pickup but searching the forums yours sounded the closest to what I’m experiencing and figure year wise they have to be close. On mine the relay is under the dash just to the left of the steering wheel.

I have cleaned every connection and know the battery is good. Seems strange to me that the relay is it, I would think it would either work or not but I’ll try that next.

Just put in a new starter today and it wouldn’t start. Put the old one back in and it started right up, weird.

Free State Yota

Something else to consider, which I am going to try to do, is replacing the wire mentioned in post #13 in this thread.

49eryota

I bet you got a bad one from pepperoni's, they will probably check it for you. I had an old kragen one and took it in recently, they checked it out it failed on the fourth try for him...have em check it a few times. then they warrantied it....save your reciept

arlindsay1992

iTrader: (8)

I'm not sure if the wiring is the same for your year, but on my 87 4Runner with over 300,000 miles, I was having the exact same issues. I replaced the starter once, this worked for a bit. Then it needed to be hit with a hammer. I cleaned the contacts 3 or 4 times and each time it lasted nearly a week. This fix has been working for 3 months so far, no issues.

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post51975700

Free State Yota

So it was warm here today in NH (40 degrees!). I replaced the positive cable to starter, the two negative grounds, and the small wire that runs from the positive to the fuse box. Now when I try to hook the battery back up, it sparks so bad that it melts the terminals! Any ideas? I've checked a double times and the batter is in correct, and I am putting positive on positive and negative on negative.

[edit] So I found out why the battery was sparking. When I switched out the cable that runs from positive battery to the starter, the metal terminal at the end of the cable that attaches to the bolt on the starter was touching the starter housing. The guys at Pep Boys bent it so that it does not touch the starter housing. The OEM cable had a plastic insulator on the end to prevent it from touching. I tried to put it on the new generic cable but it would not fit. I am going to try again to put it on there, and some electrical tape too.

RAD4Runner

It let us help you better remotely if you described symptoms, what do you hear, see, feel?
Before you start throwing unnecessary parts and money at the problem, did you take the time to understand how the cranking system works?

Starter keeps on spinning and also turning engine over with it? Probably starter solenoid plunger not retracting back to at rest position so contacts remain closed and gears engaged with flywheel.
Could also be contacts welded short so mechanically same as above.
Or starter relay or ignition switch contacts stuck/welded closed - altho this is less likely.

Gotta be specify what clicks. Circuit Opening Relay? Starter Relay? Starter Solenoid?

Your sig does not mention what truck you have. If 22RE and embarassed to aks straingers for help, you might be able to use my special service tool =D

Sounds like a short somewhere. Could be short in starter windings/brushes? Tried disconnecting thick (The one taht comes directly from battery) wire to starter solenoid and re-connecting battery to rest of circuit? This will isolate starter short if any

Free State Yota

So I found out why the battery was sparking. When I switched out the cable that runs from positive battery to the starter, the metal terminal at the end of the cable that attaches to the bolt on the starter was touching the starter housing. The guys at Pep Boys bent it so that it does not touch the starter housing. The OEM cable had a plastic insulator on the end to prevent it from touching. I tried to put it on the new generic cable but it would not fit. I am going to try again to put it on there, and some electrical tape too. The dealership said that if they can find an OEM cable, it will cost $400. So I'm just gonna make the $12 48 inch battery cable from Pep Boys work, unless you guys have other suggestions.

I am pleased that my 4runner is running after I replaced the wire that runs from the positive battery terminal to the fuse box. How it was setup, some puny 4 gauge wire came off the positive battery terminal, then halfway to the fuse box it was spliced to 8 gauge wire. The 8 gauge ran under the bumper side of the fuse box, and came up under the 80 fuse. It was attached inside the fuse box to a metal plate, and could not be unscrewed. I tried working it out of the small clamps/crimps, but it broke off. So I bought this wire from Home Depot, and put these terminals on each end. One I attached to the positive battery terminal, and the other I attached to the screw on the metal plate above where it used to be crimped/fused to the metal. Some other threads said that this fixed intermittent starter problems, so we will see. (People also said they noticed more power. This I have not noticed.)

If the rewiring job I just did does not fix my starting problems, I will listen to see where exactly the "click" is coming from. I'll also go over RAD's instructions and try to figure out that workaround.

mstolz

Make sure every connection is really clean! As I mentioned I installed a new starter and it wouldn't start. Put the old one back in and went through every connection again making sure everything was bright and shinny which I thought I had done already.

Anyway after going through the connections, battery, ground and starter connections, my problem seems to have gone away.

Keeping my fingers crossed but I think my issue is solved.

RAD4Runner

If I'm not mistaken, that is stock Fusible Link like this (on first gen):

However, now one has confirmed that yet.

Intermittent "click-only" problem IF, and only IF, it applies to your generation is caused by high resistance in wiring resulting in insufficient current to actuate starter solenoid. Every little effort to reduce resistance in circuit helps.

IF and when solenoid actuates with barely sufficient current, the solenoid contacts may not close tightly, meaning more resistance, meaning less power to starter motor, meaning less powerful crank. Reducing reducing wiring resistance, meaning increased current to solenoid coil, leading to more manly actuation of plunger, meaning tighter closing of contacts will help.

Free State Yota

Hey RAD, yes, that is the wire I replaced. But on mine that would be too short to reach from the fuse box to the battery. On mine it looked like that, if you take the round terminal off, add another few inches of that thick wire, then splice 8 inches or so of small wire.

Well, after replacing that wire, the two negative battery cables, and the positive battery to starter cable, my 4runner ran great for almost five days. On the fifth day I went to start it, and there was a three-second delay from when I turned the key and when it turned on. I told two guys with me that it was probably gonna act up again. So I turned it off, and tried to restart it, and nothing. The single click noise sounds like it is coming from behind the passenger side glovebox. It sounds like inside, not outside near the engine. We turned the key dozens of times and the click came from that spot. However, out of the two dozen times we turned the key, a click sounded like it was coming from near the circuit opening relay under the hood. My buddy and I heard it because we were poking around under the hood while the third guy was turning the key. When it made the click near the circuit opening relay, I also heard a faint whining noise by the COR or by the windshield wiper motor (that general area over there by the passenger side engine compartment). The faint whine sounded like electrical noise, like static whining coming from an electrical wire or something. That whining and the click by the COR only happened once in over two dozen key turns, the rest of the clicks were behind the passenger glovebox, and there was no faint electrical wire whining noise under the hood.

I tried half a dozen times to get it to start by hitting the starter with a wrench. Nothing. So we jumped it with another truck and it sluggishly started up. I have since started it four times or so, with no issues.

Today I am going to take the battery out and have it tested. Even though it is only two months old, maybe I screwed it up when I was trying to fix things. If it the battery checks out, I guess I should mess with the ignition switch, starter relay, or that wiring job that RAD wrote up?


[edit] Battery checked out. Guy said "it's as good as any on the shelf." When I was taking the battery out, the electrical/static/whining noise was going on. This picture here (not my 4runner) http://www.flickr.com/photos/connors934/177109936/#/. In the upper left corner of the picture, there is a black cylinder thing that looks 6-8 inches tall with a gray lid and two hoses coming off it. I have no idea what that is but the noise comes form that.

RAD4Runner

COR does not affect starting circuit. See COR post on my build thread.
You still have not verified whether or not your starter relay clicks. See How starting circuit works - link on my sig.

IF your schematic is same as first-gen 4Runner's in my write-up, it's wiring is flawed. Verify if your truck has wiring flaw I describe, and fix it This picture tells a thousand words:


Sure, it is is intermittent- typical of problem caused by Toyota Wiring Flaw explained in my build thread. Stronger battery, new starter solenoid, new smoothly-sliding solenoid actuator, clean, new contacts.. All that may make system work... The flaw would still be there..waiting to act up when you least want it to.

That's a carbon canister filter, not an electrical part.

mstolz

My starting problem is back but I see there is what looks to be some very good diagnostic info in here now. I'm working on an 89 pickup and am hoping the wiring is the same as the 91 4runner. They gotta be close, same engine.

Thanks for further assistance.