Rooster316

I have a 1988 22re. Having trouble with it all of the sudden.
It starts and will run for 30 seconds to a minute. Then it will sputter out and die. Tried giving it gas while it was trying to die and it will not keep it going. I searched the search bar but nothing like this that I saw. Don't really know where to start. Please help!

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

When was the last time the fuel filter was changed? It's kind of a PIA to get to so many are original. If you do change it relocate it the the passenger fender well. It's been done a lot so a search should pick that up.
When was the last tune up?
Air filter change?
If all the basic stuff is good what codes are you getting? Don't need a code reader just jump the diagnostic ports and count the flashes
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TroubleCodes/

After this all checks out let us know if it solves your problems.

gsp4life

How long have you owned it/what type of maintenance and work has the engine had, does it crank and start easy? How much diagnosis have you done so far (i.e. compression test, valve clearance check, TPS test).
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Rooster316

It was recently rebuilt, new rods, crankshaft, timing, injectors, fuel filter etc. the whole 9 yards.

I've drove it 3 times since I finished. The 3rd time I had to tow it back home because when I turned on the lights it sputtered out and shutoff and ever since then it's done the same thing, it will run for a minute and then sputter out.

When it starts it usually turns over 1 or 2 times slow then fires.

Havent done a diagnostic check yet, didnt think of jumper.

I think I need a new wiring harness, but I can't think of an issue with harness that would let the motor start but then sputter out a minute later.

thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

I'm having electrical gremlins at the moment as well. Doubt your in need of a new harness unless yours is hacked up. Have you redone your grounds in the engine compartment yet? It's pretty easy and the factory ones just get corroded over time.

Let's see what your your codes are and then take it from there.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Start with the simplest thing first. Test and monitor battery voltage. Make sure the power connectors are tight and clean, battery posts ground wires and starter power.

I don't recall the exact RPM but it shouldn't struggle to crank the engine, 3-500 sounds about right. Combined with it shutting off when you powered up the lights leads to power problems..


I guess you could have done something to the headlamp wiring like pinched it under the support but I'd of noticed if I crushed anything like that with the Cherry picker and expect you would also. You can pull the lamp fuses and it would eliminate that as a cause.

gsp4life

This has electrical problem written all over it, maybe a fuel delivery issue as well. The reasons it'll crank slow and start but die soon after is that you have just enough of a charge in your battery for the starter to turn the flywheel and just enough of a fuel/air/spark to fire, but have a major problem somewhere else in the engine management system.

I'm not great at diagnostics, cause my engine had many things wrong with it and I fixed them all at once, so never really knew what was what. Things I'd consider are bad alternator, alternator harness, faulty engine ground, EFI, fuel pump or filter... I'm sure there's more to check, but there's some ideas anyway.
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thefishguy77

iTrader: (1)

Does your have the starter relay? Not sure when that became standard. Lots of older Toyota trucks with out them have slow cranking. Once a relay is installed they spin faster than ever. Just a thought.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Have you checked your alternator belt tension yet? That was my last power issue. Wouldn't be a bad idea to check the level in the battery either, you'll have odd behavior if one or more cells are drying up.

RAD4Runner

O.P.
Also check your circuit-opening relay / AFM system/circuit.

RE: CONNECTIONS:
Good electrical connections should have bare, shiny metal tightly making contact with bare, shiny metal. Do not be content with visually clean.

Starter relay became standard on the 22RE's with manual tranny starting mid-1986. (My thread has more details). However, it was never wired properly from the factory until sometime early 90's, IIRC. 86-88 with starter relays are only being wired properly by those who find out about the problem.

Rooster316

Ok so I've been busy with holidays and stuff but I found some time to check some of the basics, and I will be working on it all day tomorrow.

Note, I am descent with mechanical, but I am no where near an electrician. I have done very little electric work and I know very little.

When I tested the voltage of the battery it was exactly 12 when it was off, and while running it was about 12.5

Checked the grounds undid them roughed them up with some sand paper and put them back.

I found in the (black) wire coming off the top of the Alternator going to a plug in the harness along with a white, red, yellow wire. The wire had 2 bare spots in it, so I replaced the wire. The end inside the plug required a 4 letter word or two to remove but I got it out, replaced it and put it back together still to no avail.

I took the NEW alternator off and took it to the parts store to have it tested and it checked out good.

i removed the headlight relay from the fuse panel and that did nothing either.

so with this stuff done I'm telling myself the problem is not in the alternator wiring or the battery or grounds or the headlights (could it have been a coincidence that I turned the lights on as it started running rough? I wouldn't think so but I am lost) . So just for kicks and giggles I hooked up my daily driver with some jumper cables to the yota. It fired up ran smooth for over 2 minutes while hooked up. I took them off and it ran for another two minutes, I touched the throttle it sputtered out and died within seconds of touching the throttle one time.

So now I'm thinking I have a fuel delivery issue, or 2 separate issues.

The fuel filter was replaced during the rebuild, the injectors have all been cleaned/rebuilt. And I have not tested the fuel pump with a meter but I know it works or the truck wouldn't run.

Also remember I have driven the truck since the rebuild and after driving it and it sat in the parking lot for no more than 4 hours the issue came about.

I will run a diagnostic check in the morning. And post again what I find out from it.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

That battery voltage is very low, that charge voltage is even worse.
​​Did you try the throttle while it was still connected to the other battery also, and it stayed running or no?

It could be several issues compounding. But just starting with what we know. Your battery voltage is low, critically low when it should be charging. Maybe go over the harness again for bad wires, specifically the alternator stuff, and run the alternator diagnosis specific the voltage output.

easy mode:
Try a know good battery in it, and monitor the voltage. If that has good charge voltage, you might have a damaged battery and need to replace it or just put it on a proper battery charger.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I too think your battery voltage is too low. Any electrical issue I have ever dealt with was due to a previous owner hacking up the wiring. Mostly due to stereos and trailer wiring. I would repair any damaged wiring and take it back to how Toyota had the wiring. RAD does have a great write up for a Starter Click Only issue that I do on mine and works great.

Not the best test but how I get a good idea if my fuel pump is pumping strong is to remove the hose from the back of the fire wall that comes off of the fuel rail and stick it in a container, either jumping FP/B+ or starting the motor, it will fill a quart jar within a minute or so. If you want to use a gallon jug and let it run for a few minutes to see if the pump is possibly getting hot and quitting.

My experience is fuel pumps will only give one or two issues before completely quitting for good. Do you run the tank on empty? That is hard on a fuel pump. Fuel actually cools the fuel pump. I keep mine at 1/8th tank and no lower, usually I fill up at the 1/4 tank mark.

gsp4life

did you replace the battery along with the alternator? I imagine you replaced it because the old one wasn't working right and a bad alt can damage a previously good battery. You should be getting more around 12.5v while sitting and much higher than that while running.

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

i disagree. the pump isn't kept cool by immersion in gas, but rather by transfer of heat to the fuel being pumped through it.

i put 297k miles on the twin denso pumps in my subaru, and i always ran the tank to near empty (15years of driving it). never had a fuel delivery issue in the subie.

wally

Rooster316

Alright, i took the battery in last night, added about 16 oz of water to it and let it sit on the charge for nearly 24 hours it was at full charge. So I took it out. She fired on the first turn. (Faster than usual).

she ran great, I took it for a spin around the neighborhood, maybe a mile or so. Brought it back, turned it off, Tried to turn it back on and. Now it won't do anything but turn over slowly.

I am am now breaking out the wiring diagram so I can figure out what's the deal with the alternator/wiring.

This should be fairly simple right... the book shows red and yellow coming out of the plug for alternator and a white coming off the top of alternator.

my plug has white, red, yellow, and the black come off of the top screw. All going to the inline plug that goes into the harness. But it also has a separate white wire coming off the top screw and going to a little plastic box with a 10mm nut holding it together with another wire that comes out black and goes around the front of truck and to the fuse box. Best I can tell is it hooks up to the same fuse as the positive of battery. Should this hook directly to the battery instead of this fuse?

gsp4life

No, definitely don't do that! You always want accessories to have an inline fuse. Even if you rewire it for testing purposes, you'd still want a fuse in there. Otherwise, if something's shorted and you can't tell, your truck could catch fire. Not good.

Can you take a few photos and post it up here? Would help a lot to see if anything's been messed with.

gsp4life

Also, looking at what you wrote again, the thin white, yellow and red should run to the plastic alternator connector and the heavier white one from the fuse box to the alternator post. The black in the ground that should be bolted to the block sort of hidden by the p/s pump and bracket. That ground wire can get too close to the exhaust and it's insulation jacket will become brittle and snap apart or even melt. Burned insulation adds resistance to a wire and may cause electrical problems. Mine was really bad so I replaced it and ran it further away from the heat shield.

scope103

??
No, the insulation is insulation - it does not conduct electricity. It has nothing to do with the resistance of the wire.

BUT: if the wire got hot enough to damage the insulation, the wire is almost certainly damaged. Some of the individual strands may have broken, or the heat cycling of the crimped connector may have disconnected some conductors from the crimp. When that happens, the resistance could rise, and THAT would be the cause of the burnt insulation. The wire almost certainly should be replaced. But moving the wire away from the heat shield adds little.

For what it's worth, you don't add water to modern batteries as a maintenance item. You add water when it's been boiled off, most commonly by over-charging. If that is the case, the battery is probably damaged, so with new water you can charge it but it won't "hold" the charge. This can be tested (with a "carbon pile tester") for free at most auto supply stores.

gsp4life

[QUOTE=scope103;52347123]??
No, the insulation is insulation - it does not conduct electricity. It has nothing to do with the resistance of the wire.

BUT: if the wire got hot enough to damage the insulation, the wire is almost certainly damaged. Some of the individual strands may have broken, or the heat cycling of the crimped connector may have disconnected some conductors from the crimp. When that happens, the resistance could rise, and THAT would be the cause of the burnt insulation. The wire almost certainly should be replaced. But moving the wire away from the heat shield adds little.

I agree with what you're saying, but isn't burnt insulation now partially carbon, which is a mild conductor compared to non-burnt plastic?