8 T 8

Ok, gonna try to keep it direct, but cover what has been tried already.

My Problem: My 88 2WD pickup (22RE, AUTO, NO AC) runs like crap. One day it just started running like crap. And has never come back.

It will start fine, from a cold start, every time, no hesitation. It will run, depending, from a few minutes to 10 or 15 minutes, and sound/seem normal.

Then, the problem starts. It starts "chugging", or "galloping". First the idle gets a little rough. Then it gets worse, starts wanting to stall. Finally, it stalls. Then it runs like it's got a gallop, you know, kinda half-assed. Then it dies, and that's it for anywhere from 10 minutes to 3 hours.

Now, I know, there's a million reasons something like this can happen. So, here's what I covered so far:

New fuel pump, Carter.
New fuel filter.
New 'sock' filter on tank pickup.
New ignition coil. Didn't make diff. Got 3rd one with ignitor, doesn't make a diff.
Ignitor.
Cleaned fuel tank out, totally, all new gaskets, fuel lines checked multiple times.
New vacuum hoses, all the way around.
New battery.


Bench tested or on-vehicle tested (w/FSM right there) all of these:
Cold start injector
VSV for AS
VSV for fuel pressure regulator
EGR
Air pump
ignition coil
Water Temp sensor
Start injector time switch
MAF sensor
Throttle position sensor
Battery, and cable connections, all around
Grounding points, straps, bolts. Been re-done, bare metal contacts re-made.
Oxygen sensor.
Compression test done--o.k.



Of course, have done these too:
Timing
air/fuel
idle speed

The truck, well, it has a lot of new stuff on it. Cap/rotor/wires/plugs. A lot of engine work done 3 yrs ago, but been down a year. So things like the cat converter, radiator, alternator, master cylinder, starter and a few other things have less than 10k experience on them, as well as all engine gaskets, "new" timing chain, guides, all the stuff one would do when doing a rebuild.

And when I say I checked these, things like MAF and Throttle position switch, I mean I did it by the book, I have extra harnesses I use to hook up and check these good, not just trying to hold probes on pins, I do it right, apparently not right enough, cause it's not fixed!
I have used things like vac pumps to check openings/closing of valves as per the FSM, things like the EGR and fuel pressure regulating valve.

So......question is...considering I've tested all these things more than once, vs. the FSM, what is most likely to be either a critical componant that may look good on the bench but still be bad, or what may I have overlooked short of either a faulty ECM or some weird intermitent wiring problem?

I turn it over to you guys......

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

Well It wouldn't be a bad idea to find someone with an ecu you could try to swap and see if its still there. Is everything under the hood stock? or is there moddified crap everywhere? Do you think you could post a video of how it sounds/runs when warm?

Utah4Runner86

iTrader: (1)

Maybe I missed where you said, have you tried pulling the codes?

malteserunner

iTrader: (1)

Pickup in the distributor?

Bassmastry101

iTrader: (1)

Checked and cleaned your IAC?

8 T 8

Check IAC-CHECK. Will do. It is totally stock under the hood, no mods whatsoever. When rebuilding, I wanted to keep it stock so everything would work right, no variables.

As far as codes-Negative. Never throws codes. I get what I get when I unhook something along the way to work on it, but nothing after resetting.

I'm personally leaning at this point towards a bad FPR. Seems like if it either wasn't getting directed to open/close correctly, or more likely, just went bad, it could be cutting off my fuel, maybe not giving me enough at higher temps(?). Gonna order one today and try it. Hell, I'm already about $400 into this problem!!

As far as an ECU swap, sounds good. My prob is the one guy who tells me he can ECU swap with me, never QUITE gets around to doing it. He's got a ton of them, but, when I need it, he's got some excuse. So, no, for the moment, let's assume I can't ECU swap. Not to say it couldn't still be the prob.......that's why I reserved an ignitor swap for just recently......EXPENSIVE!!

Thanks for all your input so far.....gives me some food for thought!

8 T 8

Oh, and pickup in the distributor is also a good one......Upon testing, the tolerance with the...uh...name escapes me....."star" thingy that is around the distributor shaft below the rotor and the pickup was within spec. Resistance was also in spec. But not to say it may go outta spec. Most people I have talked to say it's a part that rarely fails, and my distributor, overall, looks and seems in good condition. But it's on my short list of things I may check out o.k. but actually may have a problem I'm not picking up. Plus, at about $73 @ Auto Zone and who-knows-what at a dealer, holding off till the next round if my fuel pressure regulator doesn't do it (also about $70).

8 T 8

Well, later down the road.......

Changed out the fuel pressure regulator. Replaced the VSV that controlls it, as I found that part to be bad (VSV). Didn't make a difference.

Repeated compression test, when warm, when the problem occurs........compression is fine.

Replaced the temp sensor to the computer, the cold start timing switch (temp sens)....AND the BVSV.......didn't help. Bench tested all of these before putting in. All new.

Repeated testing for the EGR and associated control valves.......tested o.k.

And this is all checked against the FSM for the year and model. Most of this has been tested 5 times or more over the last year.

So.....Now I'm at the distributor. The FSM says if the distributor pickup is over tolerance (above 180 ohms), replace the whole distributor.

Anybody ever hear of a distributor's pickup coil "fading" as the engine heats up, then throwing things off and making it sputter? Cause that's what I'm thinking. The only thing is, my readings are about 165 ohms cold and 184 warm. Is 4 ohms over gonna make that much difference?

Input please....

Cause I been replacing a lot of stuff!!

In my garage sits a truck that is a bunch of new stuff...and doesn't run currently.

malteserunner

iTrader: (1)

The reason I mentioned the pickup, is that I had one fail on my old 4Runner. The engine would run good cold, and shut off when hot. Never had a problem after I replaced the pickup.

8 T 8

Yeah I am leaning towrds that, the pickup. Also, I don't have much left! But I am between just getting a junkyard distributor and pickup and buying a new pickup, aftermarket, of course. I wonder if the whole thing is wore out or if there is no wear on the 'star' shaped wheel around the distributor shaft and the pickup electrode. Mine is just slightly over the max clearance the book says it should be. So either way the pickup will be replaced.

But yeah, it will run till you start revving it up a bit, then it wants to chug and sputter and eventually dies. If you just start dirving after you start it from cold, you won't get too far down the road before it's done.

fnrunner

I think I'm having an issue very similar to yours... So if you don't mind sharing what you think was the problem?
I too have test & or replaced all the usual suspects but still get the hesitation & was sounds like a mis-fire... Chugging sort of describes it too...
Thanks!

yotabuddy

Malteserunner: Your short and sweet note has inspired me. About the distributor pickup coil I mean.

. . I've been to hell and back chasing a hard-stumble-when-hot on my 1992 22RE. It's the first ever issue I've experienced with this sweet little truck and she shows 293 k miles.
Everyone says these dist. pickup coils are almost bullet proof. But after learning of your experience, I'll look harder at this little rascal. I've been bench-testing components until there's nothing left to test. Then I began to retest. About at a loss. And doing lots and lots of research especially here on this great site. So - I'll revisit the distributor pickup.

SYMPTOMS: Hard HARD stumble, codes vary but over two months it set 13, 31, 41, and 24. Not all at once though. Always starts quickly, like with a bump-of-the-key quick. Runs great until hot then out of the blue, or after a stop light, or after a short parking stop where engine is stopped - it may stumble once or ad nauseum for quarter of a mile, or fuss and flutter and cough and die. Vsv's test fine, VAFM fine, fuel pump, COR, wiring to ECC (computer) fuses, all test fine. Vacuum system no problem, intake air channel from filter to throttle plate tight and sound, EGR good, grounds good and clean, new fuel filter. Regularly use injector cleaner and always use pure gasoline, no ethanol. Removed Catalytic converter, she's clean no obstruction, no carbon build-up.

This evening, on the weight of common sense telling me it's got to be a coil or resistor opening up or changing values with temperature rise, I determined to remove components one at a time and raise their temp to 200 degrees and re-test. What you experienced with the pickup coil inspires me to start right there first thing in the morning. If it works, you win a box of cracker-jacks! All the way from Tennessee. more later