3vze with 170,000 miles with not a single leak. What do you guys think?
10-15-2013, 09:12 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Alaska
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3vze with 170,000 miles with not a single leak. What do you guys think?
What I know from others and with my personal experiences with 3vze engines, they are completely awful. But this particular engine seems to be very special. Doesn't miss a beat, stays a low warm temp and has perfect compression. I may want to keep it for modifications. I have hopes for this engine. I want to try to push out as much as possible and prove that it can do it. If I do as much as I can and only get about 200 HP, I'm fine by that. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? I'm tired of the "swap it" saying.
Trending Topics
10-16-2013, 07:35 AM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3vz's aren't terrible. Definitely underpowered, crappy fuel mileage, and a PITA to work on due to the lack of space in the engine compartment, but they are perfectly fine as long as they are well maintained.
10-17-2013, 12:44 PM
#11
Registered User
Crossover delete and/or Thorley ceramic headers, and then begin to mod it with the basics that also double as reliability upgrades...
Air intake, mandrel exhaust, ISR delete, wideband 02, supra afm swap, flamethrower orange injectors, 8mm wires, supra coil, spark plugs supra specs, timing advance, replace vacuum hoses, DOA wide bored throttle, bypass high filtration oil filter like top dog V will extend engine life while also increasing oil capacity and cooling (both good things), etc... Better fluids and filters make a big difference too. And then there's all the stuff you can do outside of the engine too on frame, body, suspension, tires, brakes, etc to make big performance gains in other areas... Related to engine, drop your fuel tank replace the pump. It'd overdue. Vacuum hoses, soft fuel lines, coolant lines, power steering lines, and the like are all due too. If original soft rubber, it needs replaced.
One thing I would suggest -- and you could consider performance cams at this stage as you can adjust these w/ or w/o removing the cams (my mechanic said cam removal was easier and went that route [need machined toyota cams to start, not chinese aftermarket!], my wife didn't want me spending a couple days tinkering instead of working for this one...) -- is adjusting your valves to proper spec. If it hasn't been done thus far, now is the time to do it. I had mine done for the first time at this year ~145k and all but one of my exhaust valves was out of spec despite good compression in all cylinders...
Once you tear into the engine, it makes sense to rebuild the entire thing. The undersized valves are a big hindrance, and you have to machine the heads for those. Performance cams while you're in there too. And a lot of upgrades you can do on the lower end/short block as well in the way of stronger components (taking a cue from the components used in the 3vzfe I think, hardened crankshaft, rods, etc). And wen considering the engine rebuild, machining, and porting costs, you're really ahead with a 5vzfe swap on both power and price...
DOA doesn't necessarily have the best reputation on here with actually delivering what they're selling, but head over there to look at their performance 3vzes. Costs are spot on what you should expect using quality components, subtracting ~$1k you can save on labor if you assemble yourself... Raptor engines have to cut corners IMO.
Edit: Also, go through the FSM and, with multimeter and feeler gauges, check to ensure that all your sensors are w/in spec too. They can fail without a check engine light, and can add huge performance gains...
Air intake, mandrel exhaust, ISR delete, wideband 02, supra afm swap, flamethrower orange injectors, 8mm wires, supra coil, spark plugs supra specs, timing advance, replace vacuum hoses, DOA wide bored throttle, bypass high filtration oil filter like top dog V will extend engine life while also increasing oil capacity and cooling (both good things), etc... Better fluids and filters make a big difference too. And then there's all the stuff you can do outside of the engine too on frame, body, suspension, tires, brakes, etc to make big performance gains in other areas... Related to engine, drop your fuel tank replace the pump. It'd overdue. Vacuum hoses, soft fuel lines, coolant lines, power steering lines, and the like are all due too. If original soft rubber, it needs replaced.
One thing I would suggest -- and you could consider performance cams at this stage as you can adjust these w/ or w/o removing the cams (my mechanic said cam removal was easier and went that route [need machined toyota cams to start, not chinese aftermarket!], my wife didn't want me spending a couple days tinkering instead of working for this one...) -- is adjusting your valves to proper spec. If it hasn't been done thus far, now is the time to do it. I had mine done for the first time at this year ~145k and all but one of my exhaust valves was out of spec despite good compression in all cylinders...
Once you tear into the engine, it makes sense to rebuild the entire thing. The undersized valves are a big hindrance, and you have to machine the heads for those. Performance cams while you're in there too. And a lot of upgrades you can do on the lower end/short block as well in the way of stronger components (taking a cue from the components used in the 3vzfe I think, hardened crankshaft, rods, etc). And wen considering the engine rebuild, machining, and porting costs, you're really ahead with a 5vzfe swap on both power and price...
DOA doesn't necessarily have the best reputation on here with actually delivering what they're selling, but head over there to look at their performance 3vzes. Costs are spot on what you should expect using quality components, subtracting ~$1k you can save on labor if you assemble yourself... Raptor engines have to cut corners IMO.
Edit: Also, go through the FSM and, with multimeter and feeler gauges, check to ensure that all your sensors are w/in spec too. They can fail without a check engine light, and can add huge performance gains...
Last edited by RSR; 10-17-2013 at 01:22 PM.
10-17-2013, 02:24 PM
#14
Registered User
What I know from others and with my personal experiences with 3vze engines, they are completely awful. But this particular engine seems to be very special. Doesn't miss a beat, stays a low warm temp and has perfect compression. I may want to keep it for modifications. I have hopes for this engine. I want to try to push out as much as possible and prove that it can do it. If I do as much as I can and only get about 200 HP, I'm fine by that. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? I'm tired of the "swap it" saying.
It's your truck, have fun with it. If you're looking for pure power though, there's not a whole lot you can do unless you've got like $5k hanging around. Mud Hippy and a few others have managed decent gains, some report up to 190 HP on it.
10-17-2013, 02:48 PM
#15
Registered User
The fact that you are bragging on the 3.0 has alerted the gods of headgaskets. They are angry and you are doomed.
Hopping up a 3.0 for power is like putting a 10k paintjob over a rusty car.
Hopping up a 3.0 for power is like putting a 10k paintjob over a rusty car.
10-19-2013, 12:35 PM
#16
Registered User
Search the boards on here for ideas. And look at your truck system by system.
There's a big difference between mods that increase reliability and add power (crossover delete for instance removes a lot of heat from the engine bay that leads to HG failure and also serves to lower intake temps) and those like forced induction that you shouldn't do or consider until you make the basic reliability upgrades first...
The 3vze is a reliable engine all things considered. Both the 3vze and 22re were designed for asbestos headgaskets. The banning of asbestos and stop of their use from the factory about halfway through the time of engine manufacture caused issues on both. But the 3vze crossover heat caused this to happen w/ greater frequency... It took them a while to work things out, but if following directions on these boards, you should be kosher.
Despite being reliable, the 3vze is a dog. A big part of this was cramming a V6 into a 4cylinder platform, a decision driven by marketing needs and not designed from the ground up to support. The fact that engineers rather than marketers controlled the 5vzfe and designed an engine bay to support it allowed most of the 3vze's major problems to be corrected in (for instance, the 3vze replace the turbo'ed 22re, the 22RTE pushed 135HP and 173 ft lb torque vs 3vzes 150, 180); a switch that also seems to roughly correspond to the time that the asbestos head gaskets were phased out/banned...
But back to the 3vze, the exhaust crossover produces a tremendous amount of heat, and the exhaust itself is undersized for the engine, especially if you begin to eliminate restrictions on the intake side. That's a primary reliability mod to consider that will also result in performance gains -- folks cite 20% gains in MPG and equal gains in power from high flow mufflers and mandrel bent cat backs. Add in crossover delete and/or ceramic headers and a high flow cat, and you're better yet. Depending on thee approach, you can easily spend $1500 on the exhaust... But cheaper options are available if you DIY.
On the intake size, ensuring your intake only draws cold air and not engine compartment, the ISR delete, supra AFM swap, wide bored throttle body, etc correct a lot of the front end intake issues... You'll want a wideband 02 to tune. And if on fuel, the stock system runs rich, but if finding you need more flow, the flamethrower gray Bosch flow 8% more. Or run the FT orange injectors for same flow of fuel but allowing it to burn more efficiently, etc...
With fluids, Amsoil synthetics in your diff make a big difference in cold power whatever your gears. Upgrading your gears to lower gearings also makes a big difference in performance. Same with engine oil, a synthetic 5w or 0w 30 makes a big difference in cold power and viscosity throughout next oil change (synthetics start at the weight of the second number -- 30 weight oil, while standard/dino oils add thickeners, sometimes parafin wax, to light weight oils to fake heavier weights). Running Amsoil's engine cleaner made a big difference for my engine by removing old sludge and varnish, allowing current oil to lubricate better -- this despite both me and PO only running synthetic. Running Amsoil Power Foam through upper intake cleaned out a bunch of carbon and allowed my engine to breathe better. The crankshaft sensor on my distributor wasn't working leading to my engine running rich but no CEL. Fixing that and advancing timing made a huge difference. Fixing other sensors, especially the exhaust 02 sensor that aren't running optimally also makes huge differences. Running a good fuel system cleaner like Redline makes a big difference too. Etc. Etc. A lot of performance gains and mods and tweaks that can be done that increase performance and reliability and don't require removing the heads. But again, if going the removing the cams route to adjust your valves rather than Yota tools, consider sending your cams out for a performance grind.
IMO, there's a lot of mods you can do that go the reliability and performance route that will get this 150 HP, 180 ft lbs engine pushing it into (at least on feel, some just allow the 150hp engine to deliver more of or better deliver that base HP to the rear wheels) the 170-180 range without heading into the block and head porting, oversized valves, forced induction, etc, that's necessary to get to 200 hp. Stuff that if going that route, really makes sense to start on the all-around better platform 5vzfe. A platform that pushes 190 hp and 220 ft lbs torque standard and 250 hp and 270 ft lb torque with the supercharger (can increase these numbers further w/ pulley changes, 7th injector, larger injectors, etc).
Should also add that HP matters most at high speeds (~50mph+, torque and gearing matters lower), and if you read these boards, a lot of the intake and exhaust breathing mods help considerably with that 70+mph drop off in power most 3vze owners experience...
There's a big difference between mods that increase reliability and add power (crossover delete for instance removes a lot of heat from the engine bay that leads to HG failure and also serves to lower intake temps) and those like forced induction that you shouldn't do or consider until you make the basic reliability upgrades first...
The 3vze is a reliable engine all things considered. Both the 3vze and 22re were designed for asbestos headgaskets. The banning of asbestos and stop of their use from the factory about halfway through the time of engine manufacture caused issues on both. But the 3vze crossover heat caused this to happen w/ greater frequency... It took them a while to work things out, but if following directions on these boards, you should be kosher.
Despite being reliable, the 3vze is a dog. A big part of this was cramming a V6 into a 4cylinder platform, a decision driven by marketing needs and not designed from the ground up to support. The fact that engineers rather than marketers controlled the 5vzfe and designed an engine bay to support it allowed most of the 3vze's major problems to be corrected in (for instance, the 3vze replace the turbo'ed 22re, the 22RTE pushed 135HP and 173 ft lb torque vs 3vzes 150, 180); a switch that also seems to roughly correspond to the time that the asbestos head gaskets were phased out/banned...
But back to the 3vze, the exhaust crossover produces a tremendous amount of heat, and the exhaust itself is undersized for the engine, especially if you begin to eliminate restrictions on the intake side. That's a primary reliability mod to consider that will also result in performance gains -- folks cite 20% gains in MPG and equal gains in power from high flow mufflers and mandrel bent cat backs. Add in crossover delete and/or ceramic headers and a high flow cat, and you're better yet. Depending on thee approach, you can easily spend $1500 on the exhaust... But cheaper options are available if you DIY.
On the intake size, ensuring your intake only draws cold air and not engine compartment, the ISR delete, supra AFM swap, wide bored throttle body, etc correct a lot of the front end intake issues... You'll want a wideband 02 to tune. And if on fuel, the stock system runs rich, but if finding you need more flow, the flamethrower gray Bosch flow 8% more. Or run the FT orange injectors for same flow of fuel but allowing it to burn more efficiently, etc...
With fluids, Amsoil synthetics in your diff make a big difference in cold power whatever your gears. Upgrading your gears to lower gearings also makes a big difference in performance. Same with engine oil, a synthetic 5w or 0w 30 makes a big difference in cold power and viscosity throughout next oil change (synthetics start at the weight of the second number -- 30 weight oil, while standard/dino oils add thickeners, sometimes parafin wax, to light weight oils to fake heavier weights). Running Amsoil's engine cleaner made a big difference for my engine by removing old sludge and varnish, allowing current oil to lubricate better -- this despite both me and PO only running synthetic. Running Amsoil Power Foam through upper intake cleaned out a bunch of carbon and allowed my engine to breathe better. The crankshaft sensor on my distributor wasn't working leading to my engine running rich but no CEL. Fixing that and advancing timing made a huge difference. Fixing other sensors, especially the exhaust 02 sensor that aren't running optimally also makes huge differences. Running a good fuel system cleaner like Redline makes a big difference too. Etc. Etc. A lot of performance gains and mods and tweaks that can be done that increase performance and reliability and don't require removing the heads. But again, if going the removing the cams route to adjust your valves rather than Yota tools, consider sending your cams out for a performance grind.
IMO, there's a lot of mods you can do that go the reliability and performance route that will get this 150 HP, 180 ft lbs engine pushing it into (at least on feel, some just allow the 150hp engine to deliver more of or better deliver that base HP to the rear wheels) the 170-180 range without heading into the block and head porting, oversized valves, forced induction, etc, that's necessary to get to 200 hp. Stuff that if going that route, really makes sense to start on the all-around better platform 5vzfe. A platform that pushes 190 hp and 220 ft lbs torque standard and 250 hp and 270 ft lb torque with the supercharger (can increase these numbers further w/ pulley changes, 7th injector, larger injectors, etc).
Should also add that HP matters most at high speeds (~50mph+, torque and gearing matters lower), and if you read these boards, a lot of the intake and exhaust breathing mods help considerably with that 70+mph drop off in power most 3vze owners experience...
Last edited by RSR; 10-19-2013 at 12:49 PM.
10-19-2013, 06:07 PM
#17
Registered User
Crossover delete and/or Thorley ceramic headers, and then begin to mod it with the basics that also double as reliability upgrades...
Air intake, mandrel exhaust, ISR delete, wideband 02, supra afm swap, flamethrower orange injectors, 8mm wires, supra coil, spark plugs supra specs, timing advance, replace vacuum hoses, DOA wide bored throttle, bypass high filtration oil filter like top dog V will extend engine life while also increasing oil capacity and cooling (both good things), etc... Better fluids and filters make a big difference too. And then there's all the stuff you can do outside of the engine too on frame, body, suspension, tires, brakes, etc to make big performance gains in other areas... Related to engine, drop your fuel tank replace the pump. It'd overdue. Vacuum hoses, soft fuel lines, coolant lines, power steering lines, and the like are all due too. If original soft rubber, it needs replaced.
One thing I would suggest -- and you could consider performance cams at this stage as you can adjust these w/ or w/o removing the cams (my mechanic said cam removal was easier and went that route [need machined toyota cams to start, not chinese aftermarket!], my wife didn't want me spending a couple days tinkering instead of working for this one...) -- is adjusting your valves to proper spec. If it hasn't been done thus far, now is the time to do it. I had mine done for the first time at this year ~145k and all but one of my exhaust valves was out of spec despite good compression in all cylinders...
Once you tear into the engine, it makes sense to rebuild the entire thing. The undersized valves are a big hindrance, and you have to machine the heads for those. Performance cams while you're in there too. And a lot of upgrades you can do on the lower end/short block as well in the way of stronger components (taking a cue from the components used in the 3vzfe I think, hardened crankshaft, rods, etc). And wen considering the engine rebuild, machining, and porting costs, you're really ahead with a 5vzfe swap on both power and price...
DOA doesn't necessarily have the best reputation on here with actually delivering what they're selling, but head over there to look at their performance 3vzes. Costs are spot on what you should expect using quality components, subtracting ~$1k you can save on labor if you assemble yourself... Raptor engines have to cut corners IMO.
Edit: Also, go through the FSM and, with multimeter and feeler gauges, check to ensure that all your sensors are w/in spec too. They can fail without a check engine light, and can add huge performance gains...
Air intake, mandrel exhaust, ISR delete, wideband 02, supra afm swap, flamethrower orange injectors, 8mm wires, supra coil, spark plugs supra specs, timing advance, replace vacuum hoses, DOA wide bored throttle, bypass high filtration oil filter like top dog V will extend engine life while also increasing oil capacity and cooling (both good things), etc... Better fluids and filters make a big difference too. And then there's all the stuff you can do outside of the engine too on frame, body, suspension, tires, brakes, etc to make big performance gains in other areas... Related to engine, drop your fuel tank replace the pump. It'd overdue. Vacuum hoses, soft fuel lines, coolant lines, power steering lines, and the like are all due too. If original soft rubber, it needs replaced.
One thing I would suggest -- and you could consider performance cams at this stage as you can adjust these w/ or w/o removing the cams (my mechanic said cam removal was easier and went that route [need machined toyota cams to start, not chinese aftermarket!], my wife didn't want me spending a couple days tinkering instead of working for this one...) -- is adjusting your valves to proper spec. If it hasn't been done thus far, now is the time to do it. I had mine done for the first time at this year ~145k and all but one of my exhaust valves was out of spec despite good compression in all cylinders...
Once you tear into the engine, it makes sense to rebuild the entire thing. The undersized valves are a big hindrance, and you have to machine the heads for those. Performance cams while you're in there too. And a lot of upgrades you can do on the lower end/short block as well in the way of stronger components (taking a cue from the components used in the 3vzfe I think, hardened crankshaft, rods, etc). And wen considering the engine rebuild, machining, and porting costs, you're really ahead with a 5vzfe swap on both power and price...
DOA doesn't necessarily have the best reputation on here with actually delivering what they're selling, but head over there to look at their performance 3vzes. Costs are spot on what you should expect using quality components, subtracting ~$1k you can save on labor if you assemble yourself... Raptor engines have to cut corners IMO.
Edit: Also, go through the FSM and, with multimeter and feeler gauges, check to ensure that all your sensors are w/in spec too. They can fail without a check engine light, and can add huge performance gains...
Mine has over 250,000 miles on it and It doesn't leak a drop of oil either. It burns a little. but nothing that I get twisted over.
As long as it runs good I wouldn't touch it with engine mods, but that's just me.
To the OP If your not really familiar with this motor then it can run you ragged.
IMHO if you want to mod it why not just drop in a 3.4 5VZ-FE
I think you will get just the power your looking for.
You will also get your money's worth.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Regency
General Electrical & Lighting Related Topics
20
01-03-2020 07:43 PM
Vargntucson
95.5-2004 Tacomas & 96-2002 4Runners
0
07-04-2015 12:15 PM
