37 inch tires 2 much for a 22re with 5.29's
03-01-2008, 03:45 AM
#22
Registered User
BS - but closer than most get it. Both 5.29 and 5.71 have 7 tooth pinions. So, technically, the 5.29 might be infinitesimally stronger, for all real world truth, they are the same. If you want a significant step up in strength, you have to go to 4.88.
That's BS too. I'm a metallurgist. AT BEST, cryo treating will make up for a bad heat treatment. Realistically, it does little but add cost.
In my experience, you need to keep these motors (both the 22RE and 3VZE) over 3000 to be in the powerband and have a chance of holding the gear into the wind or up any kind of rise.
That's BS too. I'm a metallurgist. AT BEST, cryo treating will make up for a bad heat treatment. Realistically, it does little but add cost.
In my experience, you need to keep these motors (both the 22RE and 3VZE) over 3000 to be in the powerband and have a chance of holding the gear into the wind or up any kind of rise.
I know that's not the end all opinion on it, but I sure do trust his judgement.
03-01-2008, 08:08 AM
#23
Contributing Member
Maybe I need to rephrase...
IF the heat treatment is done properly, cryo won't make a significant difference. ALL gears are heat treated in large batches, with a heat treatment defined for the vast majority of users.
Zuk advocates an individual heat treatment of the gears (or at worst a small batch) with a special cycle designed for how we use gears. I agree that this makes a difference. I'm saying it's that whole operation of individual heat treatment with the special quench and temper (in most cases multiple temper) cycle, not the cryo part, that makes the difference.
IF the heat treatment is done properly, cryo won't make a significant difference. ALL gears are heat treated in large batches, with a heat treatment defined for the vast majority of users.
Zuk advocates an individual heat treatment of the gears (or at worst a small batch) with a special cycle designed for how we use gears. I agree that this makes a difference. I'm saying it's that whole operation of individual heat treatment with the special quench and temper (in most cases multiple temper) cycle, not the cryo part, that makes the difference.
03-01-2008, 08:48 AM
#25
Wow, I would be worried about the 4 huge flywheels and the trucks, and my, ability to stop the thing at 60 MPH.
I think you are better off with an off-road ride and a DD. Fuel is approaching $4/gal and riding around in a jacked truck with it WFO all the time is going to eat your wallet dry.
My$0.02
I think you are better off with an off-road ride and a DD. Fuel is approaching $4/gal and riding around in a jacked truck with it WFO all the time is going to eat your wallet dry.
My$0.02
03-03-2008, 08:00 AM
#27
BS - but closer than most get it. Both 5.29 and 5.71 have 7 tooth pinions. So, technically, the 5.29 might be infinitesimally stronger, for all real world truth, they are the same. If you want a significant step up in strength, you have to go to 4.88.
That's BS too. I'm a metallurgist. AT BEST, cryo treating will make up for a bad heat treatment. Realistically, it does little but add cost.
In my experience, you need to keep these motors (both the 22RE and 3VZE) over 3000 to be in the powerband and have a chance of holding the gear into the wind or up any kind of rise.
That's BS too. I'm a metallurgist. AT BEST, cryo treating will make up for a bad heat treatment. Realistically, it does little but add cost.
In my experience, you need to keep these motors (both the 22RE and 3VZE) over 3000 to be in the powerband and have a chance of holding the gear into the wind or up any kind of rise.
I wouldnt cryo a rear set either. Cryoing makes them more brittle and for DD duty it will have a higher chance of breakage. Cryoing the front will be ok butid leave the rear alone.
I agree with the powerband. On a 3vze youcan slip into the mid 2000's and be alright because of the slight amount of torque increase but around 3000 is optimal.
03-03-2008, 08:54 AM
#28
Contributing Member
In practice, MANY people have had ZERO issues with 5.71's, and ZUK has a nice article on it. Sums the differences up nicely. Not a lot of truth to the myth.
http://www.gearinstalls.com/410suck.htm
http://www.gearinstalls.com/410suck.htm
Last edited by AxleIke; 03-03-2008 at 08:56 AM.
03-03-2008, 10:01 AM
#30
In practice, MANY people have had ZERO issues with 5.71's, and ZUK has a nice article on it. Sums the differences up nicely. Not a lot of truth to the myth.
http://www.gearinstalls.com/410suck.htm
http://www.gearinstalls.com/410suck.htm
Stock to aftermarket.
As you increase the amount of teeth the size of the teeth decreases increasing chance of breakage. But then again if the 5.71 pinion contacts more teeth than the 5.29 strength is gained for the load applied is spread over more teeth.
I think a full in depth study is needed. Maybe take aftermarket gears ratios 4.10, 4.88, 5.29, 5.71 and measure sizes of teeth, pinion teeth sizes, amount of teeth on pinion and ring, and amount of tooth contact. That will give ALOT of info that might clear up a myth. There are alot of variables not explained in that link that can change strength but good none the less. Ya learn something new everyday!
03-03-2008, 10:28 AM
#31
Contributing Member
The ring gear is a fixed size, so to fit more teeth, they have to be smaller. To fit the ring gear teeth, the pinion gear teeth have to be a similar size, so the number of teeth determine the size of the pinion essentially.
So, in other words, all the arguments you make for 5.29 being OK are MORE SO for 5.71's. In BOTH cases, you have 7 teeth on the pinion and setup is CRITICAL to ensure that you have the constant 3 teeth engagement that is required of ALL gear drive systems.
03-03-2008, 11:22 AM
#32
Glad to see you came to your senses.
The ring gear is a fixed size, so to fit more teeth, they have to be smaller. To fit the ring gear teeth, the pinion gear teeth have to be a similar size, so the number of teeth determine the size of the pinion essentially.
So, in other words, all the arguments you make for 5.29 being OK are MORE SO for 5.71's. In BOTH cases, you have 7 teeth on the pinion and setup is CRITICAL to ensure that you have the constant 3 teeth engagement that is required of ALL gear drive systems.
The ring gear is a fixed size, so to fit more teeth, they have to be smaller. To fit the ring gear teeth, the pinion gear teeth have to be a similar size, so the number of teeth determine the size of the pinion essentially.
So, in other words, all the arguments you make for 5.29 being OK are MORE SO for 5.71's. In BOTH cases, you have 7 teeth on the pinion and setup is CRITICAL to ensure that you have the constant 3 teeth engagement that is required of ALL gear drive systems.
Haha yeah total brain fart on my part. I went a re-read that and realized where i made my mistakes.
Now i read somewhere i believe that the 5.71 has 6 pinion teeth while the 5.29 has 7?? Read it on marlin in a ring gear debate. Somehting about a different 5.71 ring gear being compared to a toy 5.71 or such.
03-03-2008, 01:58 PM
#33
Haha yeah total brain fart on my part. I went a re-read that and realized where i made my mistakes.
Now i read somewhere i believe that the 5.71 has 6 pinion teeth while the 5.29 has 7?? Read it on marlin in a ring gear debate. Somehting about a different 5.71 ring gear being compared to a toy 5.71 or such.
Now i read somewhere i believe that the 5.71 has 6 pinion teeth while the 5.29 has 7?? Read it on marlin in a ring gear debate. Somehting about a different 5.71 ring gear being compared to a toy 5.71 or such.
Actually, when 571 gears are set up right they seem to handle 42" tires like Flexor is using now. Flexor is my local test case....the 571 gears are opening eyes at all the death defying waterfalls.
here is his rear 571 build and has been holding up almost 3 years now. Note that this is a 4 cylinder 3rd with 4 cylinder gears.
http://gearinstalls.com/flexor1a.htm
here's his front build and it describes all of what is in his rock-buggy also
http://gearinstalls.com/flexor1c.htm
It's all about the gear quality and the actual install
03-03-2008, 02:42 PM
#34
Contributing Member
Precision Gear says 7 teeth
http://www.precisiongear.com/toy8.htm
http://www.precisiongear.com/toy8v6.htm
http://www.precisiongear.com/toy712.htm
http://www.precisiongear.com/toy8.htm
http://www.precisiongear.com/toy8v6.htm
http://www.precisiongear.com/toy712.htm
03-03-2008, 03:24 PM
#35
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06-24-2009, 06:55 PM
#36
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I have a 86 pickup 4x4. I have 5.29s , a five speed manual, and 37x13 boggers. its a little sluggish but not much worse than it was stock. im running a 22r and it turns the tires fine. but i wont lie that 5th gear is basically useless. it cant hold speed easily.
06-24-2009, 07:27 PM
#37
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Dude 5.29's would be perfect. i run 37x12.50x15 ssr swampers with stock gears..
My trucks slow but it cruise's in 4th gear like at 65 mph so with 5.29's you should be golden..
My trucks slow but it cruise's in 4th gear like at 65 mph so with 5.29's you should be golden..
06-24-2009, 07:33 PM
#38
Registered User
holy old thread! dag on tyler you got 37s on stock gears!!!??? that takes some nads. i got 33x12.50s on stock gears and its not unbareable but pretty dern slow
06-24-2009, 07:35 PM
#39
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Dude trust me it SUCKS.. thats why i wish the machine shop woudl hurry with my axles.. lol.. It takes ever bit of a mile to really get moving lmao.
06-25-2009, 03:40 PM
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My response to your arguments and gear strength is quality gears are only as good as the person putting them in. Its all about clearances and if its out of spec you will eat up any set of gears.
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