2big4arunner

So after doing some searching and a fair bit of tests on my 4runner. I have come to some conclusions and would like to hear some banter to see if I am right on the issues.

So I picked up this fun little toyota a couple months ago as a temp winter beater and a quick turnover. It had a head gasket issue and the guy said the transmission wasn't the best either. after changing the transmission filter that "didn't exist" according to the PO the transmission came around very fast. I have to take another auto for a drive to see if I need to find another torque converter since I feel like its still missing some on the bottom end.

I got myself a DNJ gasket kit for the truck and rebuilt it. torqued down the heads properly and put it all back together. did a full oil flush and rad fluid flush (since the PO used ceramic sealant of some kind) the rad seems to be a triple core and for the most part everything was going great.

Found out the distributor was giving me grief like a couple others have done in the past. changed it out, timing was solid... no more issues. Made sure to bleed the system at least 4 times on big hills while talking with buddies about different upgrades they wanted to do to their vehicles.

Then, on a longer trip (over a half hour on the highway) hit a larger hill and the rpms went over 3k and boom... overheating....and it took a while to cool down.

first thought was another air bubble... after trying to bleed it for a hour and no air.. i gave up on that thought. I started to focus on the radiator itself and the clutch fan. Knowing that the thermostat was just replaced (when I did the gaskets) and the water pump was done 10k ago... I decided to replace the clutch fan. It helped but it still overheats. Checking the flow and condition of my rad. its still flowing a full size garden hose at full bore through the rad without issues and there is nothing stuck infront of it (besides the condensor which is clear and flowing fine) I have come to the conclusion that it must be the water pump back in the block.....

I need to stop using these little dots ......

so I checked for air for the 10th time... to make absolutely sure I didn't have an air bubble up there... then checked for water pressure...... none..... I haven't ever had an issue with a new pump so I cant say that I have actually checked one of these by hand before... but I assume some flow pressure should be felt if I compress the hose fully by hand. This only happens on the highway after traveling for a while or pushing the truck to 4k rpms with a load.

I dont have access to a used rad to fix the issue and I know my gaskets aren't leaking.. I am just trying to fix the overheating issue cause I have a guy waiting on this damn thing...

Any thoughts if I am right thinking its the water pump.. .I just want to know I am not throwing money out on this water pump or should I replace the radiator with the ford one while I am there just incase the rad isn't cooling stuff off anymore.



ps.. I am putting my electric fan on instead of the clutch fan when I put it back together and if I feel like it I might replace the whole rad with a different rad altogether out of a 1994 ford explorer. Its a duel core aluminum rad and it should be a small upgrade to our original units. dime a dozen up here so I was thinking out of the box for this one. And yes the ford rad fits like a lubed glove.... slightly modified hose routing and I am using an aftermarket transmission cooler to seperate my transmission from my radiator altogether.

pictures of my recent job are posted below.. hope they work.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0863.jpg


Parking on a "slight" incline

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0843.jpg


Better shot of the whole truck including the only cancer I found so far.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0771.jpg


Example of my work that I have done on this job. I didn't get to take a lot of photo's since my hands were occupied.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0774.jpg


only other shot.

TNRabbit

It's the radiator. That seal-a-gasket crap will totally ruin one.

You can flush it with a MILLION gallons of cleaner & it won't remove it.

Might as well replace it.

If it were the water pump, it would be leaking....they pump water until the seal goes bad....then they start dripping until it fails completely & just all dumps out.

Anyway, your description is exactly the sort of symptoms you get with a clogged radiator~

Kiroshu

Over heating at high rpms indicates a circulation/flow issue.

Damaged impeller on water pump? Rusted away? Broken?

More than likely a blockage.

Radiator

Water jackets

Various bypass hoses

2big4arunner

I am not feeling any flow when I bring up the rpm on the motor squeezing the upper rad hose. I might just do both the rad and water pump since the rad is so easy. The only catch is the timing belt on the water pump.

When I flow test the block it runs clean and fast. I can't see the block being plugged at all.

I guess doing the pump first incase they got the wrong one before me is the smartest choice. Then rad if needed.

Ps. converting to electric fan as well after this.

2big4arunner

after thinking about it at work all day.. I am gonna reattach the PS pump and pulleys (only an hour worth of work.... and replace the radiator first... I would hate to replace a working water pump. if I change my mind again then I will be doing both in one shot. fix the issue... heaven forbid the cost

2big4arunner

so I replace the radiator as rabbit suggested. Didn't help at all. Going to change the pump next. Small bit of rain put work on hold. If this is not the issue I found a 3.4 for 90 bucks that I could rebuild for power pretty easy. Just selling the truck so I don't want to sink that money into it.

TNRabbit

Damn. I would have bet money on the radiator being the problem. I'm interested to find what the problem is.

Brad.

Make sure you have a Toyota thermostat. Others won't do. I chased an overheating problem in a 3.0 for weeks, then traded out the Napa thermostat for Toyota, and everything ran at normal temps.

They have a jiggle valve that the aftermarket do not have.

2big4arunner

is this a pretty common thing? I just put the thermostat in and it didn't have said jiggle valve but I couldn't get one from Toyota for a couple days.

2big4arunner

BECK/ARNLEY Part # 1430691 has said jiggle valve and the toyota one is 3 times the cost. I have had good luck with beck and being so easy to change I will try that with the new water pump. hopefully it fixes the issue........ I am starting to hate this motor.

Brad.

Not sure how common it is. But it fixed my problem. I had a new radiator and water pump within 10K, and a brand new fan clutch.

Mechanic used aftermarket thermostat, I did some research and replaced it with a Toy. No more overheating.

However before I figured that out, it must have got too hot too many times. A few months later my head gasket blew, so I fixed it and sold it.

2big4arunner

hmmm..... when did your overheat?

Brad.

If I remember correctly it was on any kind of strenuous drive Up hills and passes.

2big4arunner

well then..... maybe I should just do that. I only overheat when I am going up big hills and passes. never when I am running around town doing minor stuff. it takes a little while to make the heat in the system and I am not getting the flow that I should be getting... water pump and thermostat and I am gonna put a different rad in so I can see the flow I am getting. I have included some pics of the rad I am gonna put in instead of the rad I had in there. damn rain is slowing down my day. posting pictures in a couple minutes.

2big4arunner

so I got 3 pictures to show basics and a video of the surrounding area with my old rad and the new rad I found from a ford that I am gonna make work. the mounts are just slightly wider but everything else should fit with ease

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0886.jpg



http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0885.jpg



http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0884.jpg



the one on top is the ford rad and the one on the bottom is the stock 3 core toyota rad. I will be plugging off the oil cooler and using an aftermarket cooler instead (still looking for a good place to put it)

That is a high flow duel core rad and I think a great replacement for the original down flow rads that we all have very little issues with (until we need to find one)

2big4arunner

so I got out there and put the new radiator in and realized that I forgot the coolant at the store.....

I am gonna have to go to the store tomorrow morning after my workout and get it filled up and tested. If there is no change from changing the water pump and the thermostat (to the beck/arnley one) then I am gonna finish off the job by putting the new rad in with an electric fan. compression test the engine and double check for a blown gasket......... I hate thinking about that.

anthony1

iTrader: (1)

Regarding the thermostat issue, just run without it and see if you're still overheat.

2big4arunner

so I guess I am doing this again. I posted this last night but I guess it never posted.



so I tried running without the thermostat and I ran with the thermostat. no change. I put it so that the rad was higher then the rear wiper motor (if thats enough of a incline but I cant see a bubble being stuck at that angle after 15 minutes of running)

so I started the install of the ford rad into the vehicle and I will double post this in my rad swap page to make sure its easy to find.

The new rad is RADIATOR 1164 from a 1990-1994 ford or mazda small pickup.
the dimensions of the new radiator are just about identical to the original radiator. I have pictures posted above regarding the sizing differences.

the new pictures I have are what it looks like after doing a mock install

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0899.jpg


http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0898.jpg


http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/...3/IMAG0897.jpg


The last picture shows the bottom hose trimmed to fit the slightly longer hose spot that needs to clear the Power steering pump. Its too bad they dont make a power steering pump for the 4runner that can use a remote reservoir. I did find after an hour of searching a hose from a 1996 volvo 960 (upper hose) that should fit but I haven't had the chance to try it out.
Bottom hose was a 22 inch reinforced flex hose. and you have to remove the power steering hose bracket (reattach using the carriage bolt that isn't in this picture yet) to keep the hoses out of the way or drill another mounting hole and bend or remake the bracket

Now you have a choice... you can get the brass fittings and the basic transmission hose to run hoses to the oil cooler on the air cleaner side of the radiator. I personally went with a transmission oil cooler mounted on the underside of the rad core support. it should get more then enough air under there and if I need to I should be able to relocate it to a more suitable position at a later date.

All in all... a couple small 90 degree L brackets at the top and bottom and you got yourself a new rad that holds a LOT of flipping coolant.

I am mounting an electric fan that needs very little work and power to put in. I will show photo's of the cuts and mods I made to make it fit with the original shrouds and all. If you want the clutch fan then a custom shroud might have to be made. I wanted the electric fan the whole time so this was just a bonus for me. the test run will be made without a radiator shroud using the clutch fan. I know I should see a little heat at lower speeds but I am looking to solve the overheating at highway speed. if this rad is as good as I think it is vs the original, I should be able to not overheat at all. even without the shroud

I will probably pull this out one more time once I get the fan modded up and make it 100% professional and stock looking. regretfully if the fan ever packs it in the guy is gonna have to wire in a version of the ford fans from the duel 12 inch setup.. I was going for power on this boy so I went for the 16 inch version.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

This is a brand new Ford radiator??

2big4arunner

this was just about brand new, stickers were still clean and absolutely no buildup on the inside of the radiator. I got it from picknpull on a 50% off deal for 30 bucks. in general, this rad is cheaper then the original

cheaper upgrade = awesome