22re timing issues
 

Hey guys i'm new to the forums but not to yota's. This is my 4th truck, got some plans for it but gotta get it running right first. Anyway it's a 88' toy pickup with the a blown 22re. I rebuilt it with .020 pistions, block decked .010., new engnbldr street rv head with oversized valves and a 261c cam. I got it back together and am having trouble setting the timing. I lined it up to tdc, set timing chain on and lined all that up. Crank keyway is at 12:00 and cam dowel at 12:00, cam timing dot is at about 11:55. I lined up the distributor rotor to 12:00 and stuck in distributor, the rotor went ccw to line up with #1 on the cap. The problem is i cant get the ignition timing correct. I jumped out the diag. connector with a paper clip and the idle drops. I set the tps so i assume that is working. I then proceed to put the timing light on it and with the distributor fully rotated clock wise (retarded), i can get the timing to hit 5 degress btdc. It wont go any lower. Seemed to run fine in the 10-15 degree range?. I thought i had the distributor 1 tooth out but if i retard it one tooth i have to crank the distributor fully advanced ccw for it to barely hit 0 degress. Its more in the atdc range. It runs way late and the exhaust starts getting pretty hot. It set the distributor back to the orig location and currently have the timing @ 5 degrees. Anybody have any ideas? Do i need an adjustable cam gear for this thing since the block was decked .010? I'm assuming i lost 1-2degrees or timing from that but could that be my problem? Sorry for the long post but this truck is driving me insane. It just doesn't seem right to have the distributor fully cranked to get the timing to the factory setting. I've searched and googled. I found a few people with the same problem but have not found an answer.:bang: :think:

My first thought was to put the distributor on a different tooth, but it sounds like you did that already. You did set the idle speed first right?

Yep i set the idle first. I did try to jump the distributer a tooth but it goes too far retarded. I can barely get it to 0 degrees like that. It's probably more like 2-3 degrees after tdc with the dist. a tooth off.

I wonder if maybe the chain is off by a tooth.

You won't need an adjustable cam gear. After my rebuild I had a total of .018 taken off between the head and block just to get it resurfaced.

But anyway, my timing is dead on and I have plenty of allowable movement on the distributor. How does the motor run? Does it run like it's a tooth off? What's your Idle speed at when your checking the timing?

The timing chain is not off a tooth. I checked it 20 times. It seems to run fine although i haven't actually driven it yet. Still need to finish up a few things before a test drive. I set the idle by ear because i dont have a tach. I'd say it's about 800-850 rpm. It idles perfect. I'm getting no codes from the computer. :bang:

What degree are you actually to get the timing set to?

The lowest i can set it to is 5 degrees btdc but the distributer is fully rotated clock wise. It's hitting the clamp down bolt. I currently have it set at like 10 degrees btdc. Seems to run ok, although i still haven't actually taken it on a test drive yet.

i just advance mine up to detonation and pull it back a skosh, cave man timing LOL :fire2:

Still haven't figued it out yet but i think i'm getting close. Is there supposed to be a washer in between the cam sprocket and distributer gear that bolts to the cam? I have a 22re so it doesn't have the fuel pump thing that bolts to the cam. My haynes manual shows a washer in between the cam sproket and the drive gear but when i tore down my motor there was no washer in there. It rebuilt halfed assed prior to me owning the truck. Maybe it was left out on the previous rebuild?

Neither my '88 nor '91 has a 'washer' or spacer between the cam sprocket and distributor drive gear.
You do not EVER want the distributor adjustment max'd out one way or the other... so:

If you're rotating the distributor clockwise (looking straight into the top of the distributor), you are retarding the timing...
... turning the distributor counter-clockwise is advancing.
The distributor rotor rotates clockwise so if you move the distributor the same direction... logic says that's retarding the timing.
88 22RE manual should be at 5 BTDC (at least mine says so).

Pull the distributor out and rotate the rotor 1 tooth counter-clockwise, then install the distributor and rotate the distributor counter clockwise until the distributor has 50% adjustment in both directions. Then start the engine and set the timing.

That is my whole problem. If i jump the distributer a tooth each way it is maxed out. Either fully retarded or fully advanced. The timing chain and sprokets are set up properly. I've literally checked it 50 times. I'm beginning to hate this truck.

If the head was machined, there's the possibility that the extra length in the timing chain has put you in that 'nether region' where adjusment isn't possible without an adjustable cam sprocket....

As for me... I'd grab a dremel and open the distributor adjustment 'slot' a bit more so I could make it work....

On the other hand, there is the possibility that advancing the rotor 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4 turns and moving the spark plug wires around the distributor as appropriate could counter the problem...but not likely.

The head is a brand new EB head with 261c cam and o/s valves. Block was decked .010. Anyway i just figured it out. I jumped the cam gear back a tooth to retard it and what do you know that was the whole damn problem. I put an adjustable cam gear on after i assembled the motor but before i really got it running. I must of had it a tooth off. Now i have plenty adjustment and it runs fine. I think with the block being decked the cam dowl wont got to 12 o'clock position and that was messing me all up. Not thinking I had to advance it a tooth to get the cam dowl to look right. Anyway who cares it's all good now and i thank you guys for all the input. By the way i have the cam advanced about 3 degrees with the adj cam gear. I'm gonna try 4 or 5 and see how it runs.:banger:

don't go much farther.
The 22re is an interference engine and too much cam advance or retard WILL result in the pistons hitting the valves.

that's why i was afraid to start it at first. seems to run great now. next challenge is nj state inspection saturday morning.

Went to take it to get inspected today. Never even made it. The truck had no power barely reved to 4k rpm so i turned around and went home. Pulled the valve cover and and the timing marks just didn't look right. I jumped it a tooth advanced and so the cam dowl is at 12 and the crank key way is at 12 just like it originally was. Threw the distributer in and back to square one. I can get the ign. timing down to about 5 degrees btdc with the distributor fully cranked. If i move it 1 tooth either way it wont start or runs like . I currently have it set at 10 and it runs great with no pinging. Anyway i've come to the conclusion that i am either missing a washer/spacer in between the cam sprocket and the distributor cam gear or i have the wrong distributor cam gear . Are they the same for a 22r and a 22re? I know 22r's have some type of spacer thing to drive the fuel pump. Is a 22re a bit longer to compensate for that? I've come up with conclusion because if i space the cam distributor gear out about 1/8 it lines the dist. rotor right up with the pick-up in the distributor. Any ideas? I was told the truck got a new motor about 25k miles ago. I dont know if it was rebuilt or a swap from a donor. When i got it the motor was smoked anyway :pop:

Contact EB with your problem. Dowel pin location may be off in cam since its aftermarket. EB may have had other problems with his supplier. Call him, he is a good man.

if you bump the distributor shaft 1 tooth clockwise, make sure you turn the distributor just as far clockwise too. if you don't, you've suddenly given yourself over 20 degrees more advance than you had before

I've emailed EB and he said check the timing? I am 1000% positive the timing chain is set up properly. This is straight from LC's site for the adjustable cam gear that i have. I am noticing a little abnormal wear on gear on the actual distributor shaft. If i space the gear out approx .90" the rotor then lines up with the pickup in the distributor??? Do i have a 22r distributor drive gear or are they the same as a 22re? The one that bolts to the cam is the one i am refering to. Like i said before i dont know where the previous motor came from a donor 22r or the orig 22re rebuilt that was in there. My buddy has a spare 22r that i will check out tomorrow and snag the fuel pump concentric and modify it to use as a spacer if needed. Toyota also lists part # 13571-35010 as a camshaft thrust washer. The books shows it in between the cam sprocket and distributor drive gear???? Does anybody have a spacer in between their cam sprocket and dist. drive gear on a 22re??? Can some check the part #'s for the distributor drive gear between a 22re and a 22r?


If i put the distributor in jumped 1 tooth either way it is either way advanced or way retarded. I am not even able to get the crank pully notch anywhere near the tab on the oil pump when trying to set the timing. Yes the pins are jumped for the computer and the idle drops down so i know my tps is working. This truck is driving me absolutly insane.:bang: