22RE timing chain guide broken: How can I buy some time?
03-16-2014, 07:25 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
22RE timing chain guide broken: Will this idea work to buy some time?
'85 4Runner, 22RE, 5spd, my daily driver. I've heard a ticking for a few months, I don't think it was there when I got the truck 4 months ago. I finally got up the courage to take a look under the valve cover:
Clearly the driver timing chain guide is a goner. The grooves in the timing cover look deeper than the ~400 miles I have put on the truck. I would rather replace the timing set and cover before I wear through to a water passage and becomes an emergency...remember it's my DD.
I'm interested in buying a month's worth of daily driving - maybe 3-400 miles total, I need a 3 day weekend and could use an extra set of hands to tackle this, and both of those are happening in a month. That gives me time to get some more tools, learn more, and get parts ordered.
I want to try finding an oil impregnated metal or hard plastic that I can slide down the driver's side to act as a barrier between the chain and cover - maybe it would be made from the same stuff that the original chain guide or tensioner is made from.
Here is where I want to slide in this magical piece. This pic is a good timing set, borrowed from another thread:
And here is the area I want to place this magical band-aid, to somewhat replace the missing chain guide:
Let's say the band-aid piece is about 1/2" wide, 1/8" to 1/4" thick, and long enough to bottom out in the oil pan which will hold it in place since the chain travels DOWN on that side pushing it down into the oil pan. Length looks like about 18", but that's easy to dial in on the fly.
PROS:
-Easy, this would take me just a few hours to fabricate and install
-Buys me the time I need to be sure I don't unleash coolant in my oil
CONS:
-This is not a long term solution. Whatever I put in there as a new guide will wear down and throw more crap in my oil and possibly pieces in my oil pan which will help continue to clog my oil pick up screen. I'm planning to drop the oil pan during the timing set replacement - looks easy enough for us lifted solid axle types
QUESTIONS:
1.) Is my idea insane n00bery at its best?
2.) Has this been tried before?
3.) Anyone have some insight into what material will work for me?
4.) If you have experience with doing the timing set WITHOUT PULLING THE HEAD I'd love to hear more tips and tricks. THIS THREAD is the best I have so far.
Clearly the driver timing chain guide is a goner. The grooves in the timing cover look deeper than the ~400 miles I have put on the truck. I would rather replace the timing set and cover before I wear through to a water passage and becomes an emergency...remember it's my DD.
I'm interested in buying a month's worth of daily driving - maybe 3-400 miles total, I need a 3 day weekend and could use an extra set of hands to tackle this, and both of those are happening in a month. That gives me time to get some more tools, learn more, and get parts ordered.
I want to try finding an oil impregnated metal or hard plastic that I can slide down the driver's side to act as a barrier between the chain and cover - maybe it would be made from the same stuff that the original chain guide or tensioner is made from.
Here is where I want to slide in this magical piece. This pic is a good timing set, borrowed from another thread:
And here is the area I want to place this magical band-aid, to somewhat replace the missing chain guide:
Let's say the band-aid piece is about 1/2" wide, 1/8" to 1/4" thick, and long enough to bottom out in the oil pan which will hold it in place since the chain travels DOWN on that side pushing it down into the oil pan. Length looks like about 18", but that's easy to dial in on the fly.
PROS:
-Easy, this would take me just a few hours to fabricate and install
-Buys me the time I need to be sure I don't unleash coolant in my oil
CONS:
-This is not a long term solution. Whatever I put in there as a new guide will wear down and throw more crap in my oil and possibly pieces in my oil pan which will help continue to clog my oil pick up screen. I'm planning to drop the oil pan during the timing set replacement - looks easy enough for us lifted solid axle types
QUESTIONS:
1.) Is my idea insane n00bery at its best?
2.) Has this been tried before?
3.) Anyone have some insight into what material will work for me?
4.) If you have experience with doing the timing set WITHOUT PULLING THE HEAD I'd love to hear more tips and tricks. THIS THREAD is the best I have so far.
Last edited by FGZ; 03-16-2014 at 07:53 PM. Reason: title edit
03-16-2014, 09:53 PM
#2
IMO you're well intentioned, but the amount of time you will spend trying to ghetto-fab the truck together will almost equal the amount of time needed to properly repair the truck.
This is one of those things that if you catch it before the chain has worn grooves through the pump, you're lucky. You're tempting fate and rolling the dice. If you slide a piece of metal in there and it becomes loose and snags on the spinning chain, that will have been a costly 3 - 400 miles. I'd fix it properly while you still can. Best of luck.
-khany2002
This is one of those things that if you catch it before the chain has worn grooves through the pump, you're lucky. You're tempting fate and rolling the dice. If you slide a piece of metal in there and it becomes loose and snags on the spinning chain, that will have been a costly 3 - 400 miles. I'd fix it properly while you still can. Best of luck.
-khany2002
03-17-2014, 12:03 AM
#3
Pull your timing cover off throw a new tensioner and set of guides .
then run till you have time to go over the rest of the engine
Drop the pan enough to get the timing cover off don`t forget the bolt going down through the head.
Seal the head surface with silicone most likely will leak some.
Or fix it the correct way and be done.
This is why I pay insurance on 4 vehicles I could not live with only one.
If I was not about 9 hours from Boston I would be glad to come help in person!!
Good luck no matter how it plays out.
then run till you have time to go over the rest of the engine
Drop the pan enough to get the timing cover off don`t forget the bolt going down through the head.
Seal the head surface with silicone most likely will leak some.
Or fix it the correct way and be done.
This is why I pay insurance on 4 vehicles I could not live with only one.
If I was not about 9 hours from Boston I would be glad to come help in person!!
Good luck no matter how it plays out.
03-17-2014, 07:36 AM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thanks y'all.
The hardest part about doing it right and doing it now is that it's my DD. I have to wait a week or so for engnbldr timing set to get here, then the truck is down for a few days while I do the job in the evenings. That's tough to do, but I see your point.
My hope was that 3 hours of development (I have machine shop access) plus 1 hour of actual install work would buy me more time to get the job done right.
Wyo - thanks for the suggestion, I would consider it if had those parts sitting around. I think I'll do the whole job if I'm going to do it at all, I would rather not disturb the HG more than once.
I have a call into my local mechanic, we'll see what his estimate is for the work. If it's a 4.5hr job as others have said, labor will be around $320 once I get the parts. He's checking the book before giving me a number though.
The hardest part about doing it right and doing it now is that it's my DD. I have to wait a week or so for engnbldr timing set to get here, then the truck is down for a few days while I do the job in the evenings. That's tough to do, but I see your point.
My hope was that 3 hours of development (I have machine shop access) plus 1 hour of actual install work would buy me more time to get the job done right.
Wyo - thanks for the suggestion, I would consider it if had those parts sitting around. I think I'll do the whole job if I'm going to do it at all, I would rather not disturb the HG more than once.
I have a call into my local mechanic, we'll see what his estimate is for the work. If it's a 4.5hr job as others have said, labor will be around $320 once I get the parts. He's checking the book before giving me a number though.
03-17-2014, 10:51 AM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
He passed on the job, any info he can find says you have to remove the head to get the top sprocket off so I guess he doesn't want to do a head gasket and timing set or he thinks he'll offend me with a high price so he just declined the job.
Engnbldr's 4 piece timing set is on the way, won't be here until Monday. I'm looking for alternate transportation until then, and for another ~3 days after so I can have some time in the evenings to get this done.
03-17-2014, 12:12 PM
#6
I would not try and stick something in there as a temp fix. I would just try to find a way to make time and replace the whole thing.
As far as the HG goes, I would do that while you are in there. So you can make sure that you have that end of the job squared away as well.
My luck would go something like this...........Replace timing cover and kit, leave Head on, put back together and have it leak on me. Or worse yet, have it blow on me. Then you have to tear the whole thing back down again.
It really is not that much more work to take the head off if you are planning on doing the timing kit and cover anyhow. I was able to have this job torn down in about an hr. Cleaned everything up the next day, and reinstalled in about 2hrs. Now I did everything in a shop, but that really does not matter.
Just my two cents.
As far as the HG goes, I would do that while you are in there. So you can make sure that you have that end of the job squared away as well.
My luck would go something like this...........Replace timing cover and kit, leave Head on, put back together and have it leak on me. Or worse yet, have it blow on me. Then you have to tear the whole thing back down again.
It really is not that much more work to take the head off if you are planning on doing the timing kit and cover anyhow. I was able to have this job torn down in about an hr. Cleaned everything up the next day, and reinstalled in about 2hrs. Now I did everything in a shop, but that really does not matter.
Just my two cents.
03-17-2014, 12:53 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
I would not try and stick something in there as a temp fix. I would just try to find a way to make time and replace the whole thing.
As far as the HG goes, I would do that while you are in there. So you can make sure that you have that end of the job squared away as well.
My luck would go something like this...........Replace timing cover and kit, leave Head on, put back together and have it leak on me. Or worse yet, have it blow on me. Then you have to tear the whole thing back down again.
It really is not that much more work to take the head off if you are planning on doing the timing kit and cover anyhow. I was able to have this job torn down in about an hr. Cleaned everything up the next day, and reinstalled in about 2hrs. Now I did everything in a shop, but that really does not matter.
Just my two cents.
As far as the HG goes, I would do that while you are in there. So you can make sure that you have that end of the job squared away as well.
My luck would go something like this...........Replace timing cover and kit, leave Head on, put back together and have it leak on me. Or worse yet, have it blow on me. Then you have to tear the whole thing back down again.
It really is not that much more work to take the head off if you are planning on doing the timing kit and cover anyhow. I was able to have this job torn down in about an hr. Cleaned everything up the next day, and reinstalled in about 2hrs. Now I did everything in a shop, but that really does not matter.
Just my two cents.
THIS THREAD is the main reason I don't have any desire to do a HG on a daily driver where there is pressure to finish the job. I'm barely at or below his skill and experience level and I feel like I would get the same results - skip to page 12 to see his HG went out again in less than a year. Maybe I would have better luck by getting the head serviced etc, but I'd rather not put extra money into the 22RE, just enough to keep it going.
And to shed some more perspective on me vs you: you can tear down to your HG in an hour. It took me about a little over an hour to get my valve cover off and back on. I'll do it much faster next time, experience makes a big difference, so going after a HG makes sense for some folks and not others.
I should have reality checked myself a little more before going after an '85 4Runner as a DD, this could be problematic.
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03-19-2014, 03:48 PM
#8
Registered User
'85 4Runner, 22RE, 5spd, my daily driver. I've heard a ticking for a few months, I don't think it was there when I got the truck 4 months ago. I finally got up the courage to take a look under the valve cover:
Clearly the driver timing chain guide is a goner. The grooves in the timing cover look deeper than the ~400 miles I have put on the truck. I would rather replace the timing set and cover before I wear through to a water passage and becomes an emergency...remember it's my DD.
I'm interested in buying a month's worth of daily driving - maybe 3-400 miles total, I need a 3 day weekend and could use an extra set of hands to tackle this, and both of those are happening in a month. That gives me time to get some more tools, learn more, and get parts ordered.
I want to try finding an oil impregnated metal or hard plastic that I can slide down the driver's side to act as a barrier between the chain and cover - maybe it would be made from the same stuff that the original chain guide or tensioner is made from.
Here is where I want to slide in this magical piece. This pic is a good timing set, borrowed from another thread:
And here is the area I want to place this magical band-aid, to somewhat replace the missing chain guide:
Let's say the band-aid piece is about 1/2" wide, 1/8" to 1/4" thick, and long enough to bottom out in the oil pan which will hold it in place since the chain travels DOWN on that side pushing it down into the oil pan. Length looks like about 18", but that's easy to dial in on the fly.
PROS:
-Easy, this would take me just a few hours to fabricate and install
-Buys me the time I need to be sure I don't unleash coolant in my oil
CONS:
-This is not a long term solution. Whatever I put in there as a new guide will wear down and throw more crap in my oil and possibly pieces in my oil pan which will help continue to clog my oil pick up screen. I'm planning to drop the oil pan during the timing set replacement - looks easy enough for us lifted solid axle types
QUESTIONS:
1.) Is my idea insane n00bery at its best?
2.) Has this been tried before?
3.) Anyone have some insight into what material will work for me?
4.) If you have experience with doing the timing set WITHOUT PULLING THE HEAD I'd love to hear more tips and tricks. THIS THREAD is the best I have so far.
Clearly the driver timing chain guide is a goner. The grooves in the timing cover look deeper than the ~400 miles I have put on the truck. I would rather replace the timing set and cover before I wear through to a water passage and becomes an emergency...remember it's my DD.
I'm interested in buying a month's worth of daily driving - maybe 3-400 miles total, I need a 3 day weekend and could use an extra set of hands to tackle this, and both of those are happening in a month. That gives me time to get some more tools, learn more, and get parts ordered.
I want to try finding an oil impregnated metal or hard plastic that I can slide down the driver's side to act as a barrier between the chain and cover - maybe it would be made from the same stuff that the original chain guide or tensioner is made from.
Here is where I want to slide in this magical piece. This pic is a good timing set, borrowed from another thread:
And here is the area I want to place this magical band-aid, to somewhat replace the missing chain guide:
Let's say the band-aid piece is about 1/2" wide, 1/8" to 1/4" thick, and long enough to bottom out in the oil pan which will hold it in place since the chain travels DOWN on that side pushing it down into the oil pan. Length looks like about 18", but that's easy to dial in on the fly.
PROS:
-Easy, this would take me just a few hours to fabricate and install
-Buys me the time I need to be sure I don't unleash coolant in my oil
CONS:
-This is not a long term solution. Whatever I put in there as a new guide will wear down and throw more crap in my oil and possibly pieces in my oil pan which will help continue to clog my oil pick up screen. I'm planning to drop the oil pan during the timing set replacement - looks easy enough for us lifted solid axle types
QUESTIONS:
1.) Is my idea insane n00bery at its best?
2.) Has this been tried before?
3.) Anyone have some insight into what material will work for me?
4.) If you have experience with doing the timing set WITHOUT PULLING THE HEAD I'd love to hear more tips and tricks. THIS THREAD is the best I have so far.
check it out...there are a couple more just google 22re timing chain replacement. I left the pan and head in place. Used Permatex ultra grey. Didn't replace the oil pump. Left the chain guides pieces wherever they may be. Don't worry about it (I mean I don't). Didn't use metal replacement guides. Pulling the pan and head is A LOT of extra work. I got no problems and no leaks in 25,000 miles since the job. 400 miles? I'm lazy, so I'd probably take a chance with it like it is. Check the oil and coolant frequently. My $0.02
03-19-2014, 04:26 PM
#9
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The peices of guide are just going to sit in the bottom of my pan until I fina a bigger need or time to pull my pan. They are rather large chunks and will in no way get picked up through strainer.
03-19-2014, 05:19 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thanks y'all, I had no idea that Roger had a write-up on this - I sure appreciate it.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, my oil pan is really easy access for removal since it's solid front axle and lifted a lot. I'm going after everything that may be in there, I can even get started on that part of it while I wait for my timing set to get here.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, my oil pan is really easy access for removal since it's solid front axle and lifted a lot. I'm going after everything that may be in there, I can even get started on that part of it while I wait for my timing set to get here.
03-19-2014, 06:27 PM
#11
Registered User
Thanks y'all, I had no idea that Roger had a write-up on this - I sure appreciate it.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, my oil pan is really easy access for removal since it's solid front axle and lifted a lot. I'm going after everything that may be in there, I can even get started on that part of it while I wait for my timing set to get here.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, my oil pan is really easy access for removal since it's solid front axle and lifted a lot. I'm going after everything that may be in there, I can even get started on that part of it while I wait for my timing set to get here.
I was able to remove the dampener fastener by putting in gear, settibg the brake, chocking wheels and a socket on a 24" 1/2 flex handle.
I gently tapped the dampener off and ruined it. It was probably about shot anyway. Recommend a suitable puller/installer for the job. New one from Rockauto was less than $100...I see now about $130!
The rubber gaskets around the valve cover fasteners were hard as a rock...pain to get the cover off...hope your pan doesn't leak
03-23-2014, 06:25 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
The truck has been sitting for a week tomorrow, I've been doing prep work as able while I wait on parts. So far I just have the radiator out.
Then I pulled my pan today. Gasket was already weepy anyway, and man it looks like I'm going to be under there a while cleaning up the block to put it back on. And lifted solid axle truck is 10000x better for access, I had it out in about 10 minutes.
This was true for me. Strainer has nothing on it, no clogging going on that I can tell. All those guide pieces were definitely there though, yuck.
Thanks I picked up a harmonic balancer remover today just to avoid that.
Then I pulled my pan today. Gasket was already weepy anyway, and man it looks like I'm going to be under there a while cleaning up the block to put it back on. And lifted solid axle truck is 10000x better for access, I had it out in about 10 minutes.
Thanks I picked up a harmonic balancer remover today just to avoid that.
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