1991 Toyota pickup 3.0 Starting issues...
 

Cliff notes at bottom

Problem: Truck wont start, it will click put not even try to turn over.

Hello all,

I have a 1991 Toyota Pickup V6 3.0 (3vze). I bought it a year ago with 180k miles on it. It had the HG rebuilt but has a coolant leak. I'm going to replace the water pump and timing belt soon.

When i bought the truck i was told that it had a starting problem. The seller said that it was intermentant and that 9 x's out of 10 it would start. So, 6 months go by and i encountered my first bad start. When i went to start the truck it just clicked, tried again and click, then the third time started up.

This has been a recurring problem for the last six months up to last week. Last week after work it took about 6 turns of the ignition to start up and run. I went to the gas station and when i tried to start it again nothing. I had to be pushed down the road and pop the clutch to start the engine.

I have done a lot of searching here and there but have not found what symptoms i have.

The HG is good, oil is new, full of coolant and battery is good. I had the wife try to start the truck while I had a volt meter on the battery and it dropped 1\2-1 volt. I can here the relay click when i try to start the engine but wont even try to start.

Cliff notes: Truct started fine for six months, started to get intementent starts and now no start at all. I am getting relay clicking and battery has good volts while trying to start.

Sounds like a bad starter. Getting the old starter out and the new one into position seem like the worst part of the job.

Before you replace the starter, you should inspect your wiring and do some simple tests. One test is when it clicks, try having someone give you a jump and see if it starts. Another is to fab a 3 foot long 12 or 10 gauge wire with a female spade connector. Then when the starter clicks get under the truck and unplug the small starter wire and connect the wire you made in its place. Touch the other end of the wire to the positive battery terminal. Also, you need to make sure your main battery cables are good, check both ends. Frequently this problem is caused by excessive voltage drop in the wiring that energizes the starter solenoid. This problem isn't limited to Toyotas, years ago I had a 1978 Audi Fox with an automatic transmission and I used a universal horn button that I wired up under the hood to start it when using the ignition switch didn't work. Look up hot shot relay and read this thread for additional info. https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...y-time-286563/ Then again it might be your starter.

I am 99% sure this will fix your problem.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prf-30202

I encountered the same issue with mine. the factory relay just goes bad over time. this is a very easy solution.

Jumping to conclusion. The stealerships love this kind of troubleshooting.

As was already mentioned, I would start with bypassing the ignition and running a wire from battery straight to the starter. It is a simple quick test that will let you know if it is the starter that is bad or somewhere in the electrical side. Will take you 10 min to do and save you the money of buying a starter when it might not be the problem.

Before you start lying underneath your truck trying to wedge your hand above the starter, do it the easy way: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...switch-287859/ If this starts it right up, then the problem is likely the starter relay -- which is right in your hand! About $16 at RockAuto (much better to get the right part than horse around with some after-market rewiring silliness.)

If that doesn't solve the problem, you could have a problem with the wire from the relay to the starter, but most likely it's worn solenoid contacts. Fixing them is easier than driving to the parts store: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml

I for one am interested to find out what was wrong. Hope the OP lets us know.

This issue sounds like a bad alternator, ignition coil, neutral start switch or ignition switch. I know for a fact that if the neutral start switch is gone, the car will not start. Intermittent starting issued could be from a bad ignition coil or alternator.

SubiKing described it as "click but no start." As in, it doesn't turn over. I can't imagine that the alternator or coil could have anything to do with that. Since he has the starter relay (so there isn't a lot of current going through the ignition switch or the neutral start switch), I would be surprised if either of those is the issue.

If it didn't click at all, ignition switch and neutral start would both be candidates. If it turned over fine but would not catch and run, then the coil would be a candidate. The only way (that I can see) that the alternator would be involved is if it didn't charge the battery enough to turn the starter; but that would look like a "dead battery" that would start each time with a jump.

But a little multimeter work is all he needs to track it down.

Stolen from a post near the bottom of the page:

OK, let's break this down.

There are 4 likely causes of "click" but no cranking action when turning the key to "start".
- (1) Bad battery or bad battery/ground connections, resulting in inadequate voltage to the starter.
- (2) The RAD4Runner relay miswiring problem that occurred on vehicles from about 1988 to 1991 or so.
- (3) Internal electrical problems (bad brushes) in the starter.
- (4) A mechanical problem between the starter gear and the flywheel that causes the gears to lock up and refuse to turn.

So, how do you tell what the problem is?
- (1) can be diagnosed easily with a multimeter when the problem is occuring. Simply measure the voltage at the battery, and then progress on down to the starter as someone is holding the key in "start". Sooner or later you'll find a place where the voltage drops dramatically from around 11-12 volts to probably less than about 5. You've just found your bad connection. Remember that ground connections, particulary between the battery and the engine block, are just as important as the hot side. Measure on both sides of those as well.
- (2) Sounds like you may have done RAD4Runner's fix already. If not, you can check the voltage at the starter solenoid (the small wire to the starter, not the big one) while holding the key at start. The voltage should be above 11 volts. If not, you may have this issue.
- (3) is an internal starter electrical issue. Since you've replaced the starter, chances are that's not the issue.
- (4) will show up as severe dimming of the lights when you turn the key to "start", because the starter is stalled and is taking maximum current. Turning the engine over either with a wrench on the or by rocking the vehicle while in gear (assuming a manual) to move the engagement point of the starter and flywheel will often unstick it. Several members have reported that some starters do not properly engage the flywheel and exhibit this problem. A bad tooth on the flywheel can also cause this kind of issue.
__________________
RJR (Ron)

1994 4Runner, 3.0, 5-spd, 4.56 gears, 205K miles.
Front: IFS, Aussie locker, Aisin manual hubs
Rear: Detroit True-trac LSD
33x10.50x15 BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A

Yeah, reviving an old thread. I'm experiencing this issue, but I don't see any mention of people having this issue after water crossings. Well, I didn't cross any water just went mud splashing. I feel like it would make sense for something to have mucked up my starter given what I was doing, and that it didn't start the next time I tried after I parked it.

I guess no more splashy for me.

Don't just revive.
Read the old thread to see what people have already done.
AND Describe your problem well.

Symptoms are exactly the same. I just don't see any indiction in this thread or others on t4r that water/mud could lead to the issue. I'm thinking it would make sense if it did though. The t4r thread talks about starter contacts, as does another on here. I realize now that my post looks like just a random statement, not an inquiry.

Basically I'm thinking water/mud caused my issue, is that possible? I realize this could happen on it's own anyway, but if I know water/mud did it then no more water or mud for me.

Well, I'm going to jump in.

I have a 3.4 swapped 2nd gen running the 3.0 starter and clutch. The problem appeared a while back and my first knee-jerk reaction was to have the starter rebuilt...worked well for a bit, but the problem crept back in. Overhauled the wiring (it was a mess) and replaced the starter cable with a 2 ga. line so there is no voltage drop. When I did the swap, I did a hack job on installing the clutch, and it's been making noise lately, so I just finished replacing the clutch and flywheel.

But to be more descriptive of the problem:

• I can hear the solenoid engage.
• I can hear the starter spin.
• I can hit the key repeatedly or hold for 30-45 sec. with no difference.

Now for a little side note. My son is the one who installed the starter having having it rebuilt. When I took the trans down to do the clutch, there was only one bolt in the starter. The started had clocked itself out and away from the flywheel. I thought that this was my problem, but went ahead and did the clutch. I just got done with the reassembly (as of about 25 min before posting this) and the problem remain.

I need help. I have a year long pass to the local off-road park, and this is keeping me from going.

The usual starter issue:
What you do is turn off ALL electrical stuff (Fans, lights, radio, etc)
Wiggle the key on and start between 10 and 20 times.
Swear.
Place it in gear and roll it just enough so the flywheel moves a tiny bit.
Tell it you love it
Wiggle the key 10 - 20 times.

See? Easy.

Your problem
It spins. And all bolt are in right. So the flywheel teeth are not engaging the starter, but the starter cog is obviously over the flywheel.
Either it's the wrong starter for the flywheel, or the flywheel is already damaged so bad that it has spots where it freewheels.

Maybe remove a bolt and clock it back so it can engage and jam down the remaining bolt? :p

This^^^

All bolts are in, and new flywheel...Could the started be spinning and not kicking out to engage the flywheel? Do I have to big of a starter cable (2 ga.)? I'll be pulling the starter this coming weekend, and checking it to see if it's functioning correctly.

Quite possible.
Small chance but it is possible that starter solenoid contact is closing but actuator does not push the gear far enough.
Search "click no start", and double check your starter relay wiring.

You cannot have too big of a starter cable, but stock is fine.

Or the starter pinion is damaged so that it won't slip into gear on the flywheel. You don't have to break off a tooth; you just need a big burr that keeps the pinion from sliding into engagement. Some times it fits, sometimes it "catches" on the burr holding the pinion out of engagement, even though the (not-engaged) starter spins.

I would pull the starter and examine the pinion. If that looked good, I would examine the flywheel. Getting to the starter opening on 3vze is no picnic, but if you have an automatic you can remove the converter cover on the front of the transmission and see the flywheel through that.