alexcarey

hey all i searched a bit and was wondering if I could get a little advice on my particular problem. I purchased a 84 dolphin 22r with a "blown hg" this morning I gave it a compression test and was 150 +\- 5psi across all 4cyl. There's clearly oil in the coolant and coolant in the oil. Engine has 44k original. I took the valve cover off and guides looked to be in great shape so for the sake of my next decision let's pretend that's all well and good. The radiator is half rotted and po said it was overheated I can clearly see why. Would my next step be to remove the head and take it to the machine shop for testing? Or is there anything else I should check before hand? Is it common for the heads or blocks to crack on these engines?(I read near exhaust port cyl 4) I don't know the 22r engines I've only had 3vze in my 4Runner I've worked on. I have a fsm coming tonight so no problem with any procedure I might have to do. Thanks all in advance. Cheers!

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

With 44k miles on it, I would think the Timing Chain should not have eaten into the cover but who knows on that. Before pulling the head, and with your compression numbers, I would pull the Timing Chain cover and see what it looks like if it was me.

alexcarey

Thanks terry, after pulling the exhaust manifold none of them look like Coolant was being burned. There is a suspicious amount of rtv around the Head gasket area on the front of the engine Which I am assuming is the top of the timing chain coVer behind the water pump. Thoughts?

EVars

rtv on engine front behind water pump is where the timing chain cover comes into contact with head gasket. the general consensus, when doing a timing chain gasket, is to add rtv to the corners where the timing chain cover comes into contact with oil pan and head gasket. so that's probably what you're seeing.

I just replaced my timing chain cover. I pulled my valve cover and checked guides, and they were totally fine, but I was still getting coolant in my oil. i couldn't figure it out. but then my timing chain tensioner went bad, so when I pulled the timing chain cover off, sure enough, it was in terrible shape. There were track marks all the way up the passenger side and slight crack in the cover at the water pump. the previous owner of my 85' 4Runner had replaced the timing chain, but hadn't replaced the timing chain cover even though it was obviously damaged. argg.

I'm not sure which is easier/harder, but you could just pull the water pump off. if there is a crack in the timing chain cover, you'll be able to see the effects of it from both sides. but, like i said, i'm not sure just pulling the water pump vs the entire timing cover will save you a whole lot of time/energy.

alexcarey

Got the cover off and sure enough a finger nail size crack on the case where the chain rubbed through. Ok so weird part about this is the guides are new. Hardly have any marks on them. I can tell someone was recently in there. Maybe they didn't know about the covers cracking when thy replaced it? Tensioner looks good from what I can tell. So my theory is, they had the guides replaced and maybe the chain as well? Didn't notice the crack and just drove it with the garbage radiator till it overheated. Checked the oil and assumed head gaskets. Does that sound plausable? I guess best course of action is to throw a new cover on it and new oil and water pump while I'm in there and keep my fingers crossed since I'm at 150psi across the board....

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I too have used a timing cover that was rubbed by the chain. I have seen covers that is easy to miss the small crack that the chain rubbed into it. I think a new cover and you will be alright with the other checks and replacement things you are going to do. I would change the oil a few times when completed.

alexcarey

Thanks for the info terry! And the confession haha. Glad to know its a little more common. I was planning on a 50-100 mile oil change and then a 200-400 change after that. I'll post back and let yall know how it goes. Is there supposed to be a bolt that runs down from the head into the cover at the top? It was full of rtv

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

No problem, There is a bolt in the very front of the head that screws into the timing chain cover. You may see it referred to as "the Hidden Bolt". There is a little pocket that the bolt sits down into and usually it is full of oil and you wont see it when you take the valve cover off.

I wonder if they lost or broke the bolt and just used rtv hoping it would keep oil from going thru the hole to keep it from leaking.

nordicwargod

I have a question? If the chain rubbed through the cover I could see water in the oil. But how would oil end up in the cooling system? Only area oil pressurized is the oil pump and journals it flows through. And oil pressure is higher than coolant pressure [12-13lbs] as we know. But how could the timing cover crack let oil into the coolant? Would a hole in the timing cover direct oil into the cooling system? I'm trying to visualize this! Cooling system is pressurized but crank case and timing chain area is not pressurized much if any? If pcv valve is working correctly there should be a slight vacuum.
Since the engine was overheated I would do some more checking into the head. Since you have to decide weather to do the timing cover from the bottom or top, I would do top, have the head shaved if necessary, check out flatness of block, and put it together with new HG.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I have seen oil in the radiator but that was from a blown head gasket. I have not seen it from the timing cover being cut into. I have only experienced the cut timing chain cover once but I could see oil getting into the water when the truck is cool and no pressure in the system as a possibility then when you start it up it mixing in the radiator.

nordicwargod

Well, if there is oil in the water its because its being pushed in there. I guess you could make a small case [very small] that as the cooling system cools and contracts slightly that oil may be "sucked" in.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, there are three ways I know of oil getting in the coolant:
1 Head gasket failure, pressure pushing oil into coolant through gasket.
2 Cracked head [this is what I had], oil pressure being more than water pressure so oil is pressured in through crack.
3 cracked block: Same as head. Pressure differential.
Put a straight edge on top of your block and go at it with a feeler gauge. If its not flat and you re-assemble it you may be diving in there again soon.
Good luck

alexcarey

The oil in the coolant was very, very minimal. In comparison to the coolant in the oil. Nearly have it all back together. Having an issue finding the correct lower radiator hose. Also it's an 83 not at 84. (How could I not know the difference you ask?) not sure why I thought that. Body style and such. Does anyone know a part number for that super funky hose? I really hope it's not the hg or the head or the block. I suppose I'll know in the next day or two. Praying. Praying.

alexcarey

Oh also, I suspect they used a hg repair bottle of whatever magic potion you think you're buying. I may have confused that with the oil. I'm not 100% sure if that's possible though. Cheers

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Your lower hose the part store should have. The horseshoe to water pump hose below is what I use and is an exact fit when cut to the correct length.

I use Gates Rubber hose PN# 20801, around $10. It comes is a "S" shaped form, but when you cut the lower part off, it looks identical to the original and has the larger opening coming off of the water pump and the smaller end for the horseshoe pipe.

Gates PN#20801, just cut off where my finger is at. A lot cheaper then the dealer.


Here it is cut to length and on. I need to get some new hose clamps to finish the job.

alexcarey

Thanks for the quick reply terry. Come confusion now, the timing cover I had ordered was too tall. I think my engine or block is from an 85, I ordered a 85 cover and it was a perfect fit. The hose I need comes off of the older style radiator with the 90 degree elbow with the outlet for the heater core. I have no idea what's happening at this point. Ordered a 84 oil pump. Timing marks are located in a different spot. Truck was manufactured June of 83 but titled as an 84. Maybe because of the time it took national to make it into a Dolphin. So hose I need would be a weird question mark with a chicane to clear the alternator and clutch fan. Is the water pump inlet on the cover located in different spots between the 84 and 85 covers with the different block height?

anndel

Maybe oil flowed from the hole where that missing hidden bolt was supposed to be and co-mingled with the coolant and the reversed happened where oil ended up in the radiator.


Good Luck

nordicwargod

I'm afraid I don't understand? If that bolt was missing wouldn't the oil simply drain into the timing cover and drain into the oil pan?
If you mean something else then please explain.
I'm thinking of how oil can get into the coolant still, visualise! If the timing cover was cracked I suppose around the oil pump close to a water chamber oil can be pressured into the coolant. But I still think its headgasket or cracked head.
My head cracked and I had oil in the coolant. The engine overheated so that would be my first guess. Check out that headgasket closely! If you don't know what to look for do some research or get someone to look at it. Have the head pressure tested.

alexcarey

Thanks everyone for all your help and input. Looks like head gasket its blown at the least. Can anyone here recommend a good toyota mchanic in the portland area? I dont want to go back in there personally and that carb scares me something fierce. Time to drink the pain away!

nordicwargod

You mean your'e not doing this yourself? Whats the fun in taking it to a mechanic?

alexcarey

Hey aranging a tow for a motorhome is fun! And the part when i pay loads of money is fun too. Hahaha