After so much investigation as to why this 22r is eating gas (10MPG) and is underpowered and the compression is sort of low in all cylinders 148 in addition to the dizzy being installed correctly and then when i try to set the timing the dizzy bottoms out and wont go past 0. No room left in the adjusting space. I pulled the timing cover and below is what I found. The lower crank gear was off by at least 3 degrees. I moved the gear so the dot was at 6 o clock. I put the whole mess back together and the truck had more power ran great BUT when i installed the dizzy correctly I would go to turn the dizzy down to get the mark over to 0 and it would not it would bottom out on about 4 degrees on the oil pump. SO i pulled the the old harmonic balancer off and I put a new on on my buddy gave me. I got it all buttoned up and I went to start it and I couldnt get it started. I moved the dizzy teeth one way and tried it and the next and tried it. It sputtered but wouldnt fire. It ran good with the old balancer on but with this one on it does not. I talked with ted at EB and he said I wasnt quite right on the chain and the old balancer could be the problem THat is why I put on the new balancer. But I couldnt even start the thing after that.
here are some pics. If anyone sees or has any idea what is going on here please help.
This is the setup when I pulled off the TC. It is off to the right just a bit..
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...IMG_3311-1.jpg

This is where I set the cam before I put the chain on..
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...ana/ffff-1.jpg
Here are a few more pics of the corrected lower crank gear...
THis is it after I adjusted it.. Note the chain link. The dot is right in the middle of the dark link. This is a dual row setup. There is no bright or dark link on the opposite side of the chain for some damn reason. Note where the links are on the top cam gear... very strange..
THe truck had more power after I made this adjustment...

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...ana/vggggg.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...na/sssssss.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...ana/ssadsa.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...ana/sdsdss.jpg
Here is the dizzy position. Perfect but no fire just stumble and sputter..
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...a/drtyuiop.jpg

#1 @ tdc ? you could be 180* out


.

Checked it a million times...

here are the two balancers..
The first one is the one I had on to begin with. THe truck ran great and had more power after the adjustment on the crank gear but the timing was totally funky like I mentioned abover..
The second balancer is the one I put on today to see if it would correct the timing reading but I couldnt even start teh thing.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...tyfghfghfg.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...fgdfgdfgfd.jpg

have you checked the keys and key ways , crank slots ? ..

in what way. What should I check???

I have seen them warn and "used" .. they dont hold the balancer . under load the balancer will move giving "wierd" timing issues .. keyway worn in the crank , and worn key.
they would have to be really .. really bad though , to make the engine not start !!

key should ne very tight in balancer , and almost not possable to install by hand in thecrank .. if that makes sence?
.

as well as the timing gear .. i see in the one pic , the front section has been "flattened"

(or so it looks)

.

yup makes perfect sense.
The key is definitely not the issue.

will the balancer on the right work on a 1982 22r????
Man those two look different. The one on the right is the one that I put on and the truck wouldnt start.. BUT WHY??
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...dddddddd-1.jpg

sheep dip.

Brandon is plenty smart on this stuff. Not me. I can take stuff apart and put it back together.

sorry man.

Put on another identical balancer to the old one. No change. Timing mark is still to the left of zero vac advance off and the dizzy wont go any further.
Not sure what to do next. Power is there but the timing is funky. I even swapped out a different dizzy hoping that would solve it but no.
strange indeed. I am sure it has to have something to do with the cam to crank timing relationship.
Anyone with any ideas??

Well after typing a long paragraph in between doing my daily chores and keeping up with some college football the forum automatically logged me out like im looking at my bank statement :chair:. WTha heck.. To make things short make sure your cam timing is correct meaning you should be 0-4 degrees advanced for a normally aspirated engines. You should never retard the cam timing unless you are running a big blower, nitrous kit, or turbo charger. Retarding cam timing does nothing more than throw compression out of the combustion chamber prematurely. That being said make sure that is correct, get a new or 100% correct balancer for your application, and always set the engine timing full advanced. Another words do not disconnect any vacuum lines, turn the engine to 3-4000 rpms and set the timing to 30-36 degrees while doing so. It really does not matter to a certain extent what the timing is at idle. Also I only have one vacuum line connected to my dizzy to advance the timing. According to my haynes manual the other is there to take out timing at higher rpms which imo I do not like. Hope this helps and keep us posted. Good luck..

I completely disagree with that statement. There is a reason why the FSM and Toyoa wants you to set timing without vac advance applied. Why? Because it masks possible issues you may have with both the mechanical and vacuum advance diaphragms. If you set timing per specs and cannot get full advance then you have a problem with the diaphragm and/or mechanical advance. Which means the timing curve will not be as intended. Which leads to part throttle, hard acceleration, hard deceleration issues meaning large changes in throttle position.

The full advance setting described you can get away with with a drag car and is the same way I used to tune SBC's and stuff for drag racing. In which you generally don't run vacuum advance at all and everything is done in the way f an advance kit that replaces the springs/weights and such. Why can you get away with it? Because your either idle or full throttle, there's no in between and generally you don't care about throttle response and/or drive-ability issues.

^^^^ Yes you are correct but he is not running a stock carb or camshaft so that diaphram, vacuum, oem, fsm stuff you are talking about is automatically thrown out the window. Im trying to help the op diagnose alot larger problem by process of elimination. If he gets the basics done right first then we can help him fine tune the other circuits of the carb.. (which are the least of his concerns at this time)

I appreciate very much the help!!!
I actually have done that with the timing. It is set correctly at 12* advanced and 30 to 36 at 3 to 4000 rpm.
I am wondering if I should throw and adjustable cam gear on the thing and advance the cam timing a bit maybe 2 to 3 degrees??? What do you think??
As of this evening I have rebuilt a stock carb for this guy. After the tear down of the timing cover and adjustment of the crank and cam the rig is STILL horrid on gas milage. This is not making a damn bit of sense. There is more power not much but noticeable. The gas milage is unacceptable. I am going to throw the stock carb on in the morning and see what happens.
THere is without a shadow of a doubt something very strange going on with this motor!

Get a known good balancer/crank pulley. Having to remark the timing mark on that pully is highly not recommended. Either your forgetting how to time these things or something else isn't being said correctly or I am just not understanding why your crank gear timing mark is off with the oil pump markings.

And SC81YOTA if he were running a high lift large duration cam where at idle he is loping, I might be able to see your point. But it's not like he's running a 4bbl holey on the thing with a 272 or larger 500 lift cam in there. I have mine set exactly the way I am telling him with the exception mine is timed at 0 where it belongs and the early models got 8. I have a weber and EB 262 cam in mine and I have no issues. IIRC this is NOT his own truck(s), it's a friend of his and has a stock carb on there and most likely the stock cam anyway.

I even tried yesterday trying to hook this other vac line, the back on on the distributor directly to manifold vac, while the other is hooked to the ported on the carb, and mine runs like pure crap like that. I know it's not supposed to be like that and have seen only one or two attempt that. I don't see how that improves anything. The one thing that is wrong with my engine iis the fact that my block was shaved 10 thous and my cam timing might be retarded about 2-3 degrees. Only thing I lost is lower end grunt below 2500 rpm. Moving cam timing within reason (3-5* not talking 1 or two teeth off) only moves your power curve. Retarding cam raises the rpm power curve while advancing it lowers that curve.

12 degrees sounds kinda high, that early model I believe is supposed to be 8 degrees no vac advance. Just for reference mine runs like crap as well anything above 3-4 degrees. Bottom end is improved at maybe 5*, but I can feel a lag at higher rpms.

Have you read on gone through this link yet? I know it's the newer model and not the dual row model etc etc, but should be exactly the same. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/timingchain/ or this one http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ingChain.shtml

12* with the vac advance on.
12* advance at 800rpms, warm idle. When the dizz is working correctly it will not advance with the vacuum line connected to port vacuum unless the throttle is opened causing the vacuum to drop, which leads to vacuum advance. That engine should not have any detonation issues at 12* advanced, the cranking pressures are mellow enough. I make sure I am not using some willynilly spark plug too. I Use a single electrode gapped at .040, no iridiums, no platinums, no snake plugs.

Why did this thread stop? Did you get this fixed and what was the issue? I'm curious what the problem actually was.

any more info on this